To Attend Or Not To Attend?

[robycop3 1]

   My wife & I are at high risk for covid, due to age & medical conditions, & we have decided that attending church indoors while unvaccinated is DARING (tempting) GOD to protect us from covid, that it would be deliberately putting ourselves in danger. There's plenty of preaching & Bible study on TV & local radio, so it's not as if we are forsaking our gathering with other believers. The danger is real, all politicizing aside.

  Our pastor said he's considering foregoing live services & posting sermons twice weekly on the net til the pandemic's over, as most of our members have computers & internet service.

 

What are YOUR thoughts ?

[HappyChristian 3,649]

We don't agree with the vaccine, and do believe there are ways to protect oneself from a variety of viruses, not just covid - Vit. C, Vit. D3 (studies are showing that the majority of people who contracted covid were D deficient), tonic water, zinc. That is us, though.

But here's the thing, robycop: You and your wife are the only ones who can decide what you should do. If, after prayer, you believe you should stay home, then that is what you need to do. If your pastor, after prayer, decides God would have him go to online services, then that is what he should do. I know of churches that do this, and the pastor even goes online at various times during the week just to post an encouraging thought. Sometimes their wives will do a short devotion for the women of their congregation as well. When we closed the first two weeks, I did videos for Sunday School (we did have online services as well).

Liberty is a beautiful thing. While a couple of people have tried to shame those who do not wear masks, there is still choice. God will lead each individual, and not necessarily all the same way. That doesn't mean one is smarter or more spiritual than another.

I've known you long enough online here to believe you and your wife will follow God's leading. Be safe and stay healthy!

[SureWord 155]

6 hours ago, robycop3 said:

   My wife & I are at high risk for covid, due to age & medical conditions, & we have decided that attending church indoors while unvaccinated is DARING (tempting) GOD to protect us from covid, that it would be deliberately putting ourselves in danger. There's plenty of preaching & Bible study on TV & local radio, so it's not as if we are forsaking our gathering with other believers. The danger is real, all politicizing aside.

  Our pastor said he's considering foregoing live services & posting sermons twice weekly on the net til the pandemic's over, as most of our members have computers & internet service.

 

What are YOUR thoughts ?

Taking the vaccine will be even more daring, IMO.  Have you read how that vaccine works? Either the thing will be the next breakthrough in medicine or it will be a complete disaster with long term effects. Or...it might do not do anything at all since the virus has been mutating like HIV.

My concern is that it may destroy the immune system. Down in Australia they had to discontinue the trials because the test subjects kept having false-positive HIV results after receiving the vaccine.

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by SureWord

[Bouncing Bill 53]

On 12/23/2020 at 11:28 AM, robycop3 said:

   My wife & I are at high risk for covid, due to age & medical conditions, & we have decided that attending church indoors while unvaccinated is DARING (tempting) GOD to protect us from covid, that it would be deliberately putting ourselves in danger. There's plenty of preaching & Bible study on TV & local radio, so it's not as if we are forsaking our gathering with other believers. The danger is real, all politicizing aside.

  Our pastor said he's considering foregoing live services & posting sermons twice weekly on the net til the pandemic's over, as most of our members have computers & internet service.

 

What are YOUR thoughts ?

You are wise to do as you stated in your post. Has you pastor considered using Zoom. We have found it a great way to gather together during this time of the pandemic. An unforeseen consequence is that it has given us the opportunity clean all the carpets in the church, paint all the walls inside and out, and complete other tasks in and around the church. These tasks would have been much more difficult in normal times with people in the church. 

Use this time as an opportunity.

Blessings to you and yours. 

Oh, an ignore the people who say the vaccine should not be taken. They are always around and they have been wrong ever since the first vaccines in China in the 1500s and Edward Jenner in the 18th century. 

[SureWord 155]

3 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

You are wise to do as you stated in your post. Has you pastor considered using Zoom. We have found it a great way to gather together during this time of the pandemic. An unforeseen consequence is that it has given us the opportunity clean all the carpets in the church, paint all the walls inside and out, and complete other tasks in and around the church. These tasks would have been much more difficult in normal times with people in the church. 

Use this time as an opportunity.

Blessings to you and yours. 

Oh, an ignore the people who say the vaccine should not be taken. They are always around and they have been wrong ever since the first vaccines in China in the 1500s and Edward Jenner in the 18th century. 

Who has said the vaccine should not be taken? 

And there have been vaccines that have failed some causing a worse strain of the disease.

Edited December 25, 2020 by SureWord

[Bouncing Bill 53]

50 minutes ago, SureWord said:

Who has said the vaccine should not be taken? 

And there have been vaccines that have failed some causing a worse strain of the disease.

Please tell me about the vaccines that were worse than the disease. Thanks. 

[HappyChristian 3,649]

Sigh. Yet more erroneous extrapolation. NOBODY said not to take the vaccine, so let's just stop that, ok?  Discussion of vaccine failures belongs in another thread. Please don't derail this thread by continuing that discussion. (Please is simply a courtesy...it's not a request.)

[Bouncing Bill 53]

3 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

Sigh. Yet more erroneous extrapolation. NOBODY said not to take the vaccine, so let's just stop that, ok?  Discussion of vaccine failures belongs in another thread. Please don't derail this thread by continuing that discussion. (Please is simply a courtesy...it's not a request.)

If vaccine failures belong in another thread, why did you bring the topic up? You said:

"And there have been vaccines that have failed some causing a worse strain of the disease." So, what failures are you speaking about?

[HappyChristian 3,649]

3 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

If vaccine failures belong in another thread, why did you bring the topic up? You said:

"And there have been vaccines that have failed some causing a worse strain of the disease." So, what failures are you speaking about?

That was not me and I will not say again to move it to another thread. End of discussion about the efficacy of vaccines in this thread. 

[Bouncing Bill 53]

9 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

That was not me and I will not say again to move it to another thread. End of discussion about the efficacy of vaccines in this thread. 

My mistake. Sorry.

[SureWord 155]

On 12/25/2020 at 10:39 AM, Bouncing Bill said:

Please tell me about the vaccines that were worse than the disease. Thanks. 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/doctor-on-cnn-dont-be-alarmed-if-elderly-die-after-receiving-covid-vaccine

Good luck, Bill

Edited December 26, 2020 by SureWord

[SureWord 155]

21 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

Sigh. Yet more erroneous extrapolation. NOBODY said not to take the vaccine, so let's just stop that, ok?  Discussion of vaccine failures belongs in another thread. Please don't derail this thread by continuing that discussion. (Please is simply a courtesy...it's not a request.)

Yes, Bill continues to intentionally misrepresent.

I've taken plenty of vaccines. With my asthma I usually get a flu shot every year but even with those there's some fraud with them since they only vaccinate a person against last year's strain.

My whole position is a 'wait and see' approach. The whole circumstances surrounding Wuhan, the people behind the vaccine (ex. Bill Gates), the censorship of any differing opinions or facts, the speed with which the vaccine was pushed through, that at least one vaccine (AstraZeneca) was made using "harvested fetal tissue" and the fact that it consists of mRNA, which I believe is a first, makes me as doubtful in taking it as those who doubt not taking it.

[Bouncing Bill 53]

47 minutes ago, SureWord said:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/doctor-on-cnn-dont-be-alarmed-if-elderly-die-after-receiving-covid-vaccine

Good luck, Bill

Hasn't happened yet. Time will tell. But that doesn't answer the question. Try again.

[SureWord 155]

1 hour ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Hasn't happened yet. Time will tell. But that doesn't answer the question. Try again.

Bill, you go get jabbed before you start encouraging others to get it. How 'bout you do that first. And if you don't develop a form of HIV, say, after two years, then maybe I'll think about it 

[Bouncing Bill 53]

2 hours ago, SureWord said:

Bill, you go get jabbed before you start encouraging others to get it. How 'bout you do that first. And if you don't develop a form of HIV, say, after two years, then maybe I'll think about it 

I will be in line as soon as I can. Thanks for your concern.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Bouncing Bill

[robycop3 1]

  My wife & I will take the vaccine ASAP.

  We're old enough to remember the scourge of polio before the vaccine, with whole wards full of occupied iron lungs. What a relief it was for my parents when I was vaccinated by Dr. Salk himself, & they received theirs not long after. We see the results today. And smallpox has been completely eliminated. We're not afraid of new vaccines & will get'em as necessary ASAP. Remember, 'twas GOD who enabled man to discover'em.

[Ukulelemike 3,786]

I am curious if the early church was tempting God to keep them safe when they met, and evangelized while living in an environment when either Jews or Romans might arrest or kill them at any time. 

I wonder if the Chinese or Middle Eastern believers, who have to meet secretly, in danger of arrest, prison or death, are tempting God for meeting.

In fact, we have an excellent 2000 year history of believers choosing to assemble in Jesus' name, and dying for the privilege. Why is this any different? Is God's arm shortened that He cannot save? Can we not say, as Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego said, "If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.  But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up." 

Or maybe we ought to say, "If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the Covid 19, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O Governor. But if not, be it known unto thee, O Governor, that we will not cower in fear and skip the assembling of ourselves together, , nor bow before the pandemic which thou hast set up."

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. (Job 13:15).

[PastorMatt 1,094]

On 12/23/2020 at 11:28 AM, robycop3 said:

   My wife & I are at high risk for covid, due to age & medical conditions, & we have decided that attending church indoors while unvaccinated is DARING (tempting) GOD to protect us from covid, that it would be deliberately putting ourselves in danger. There's plenty of preaching & Bible study on TV & local radio, so it's not as if we are forsaking our gathering with other believers. The danger is real, all politicizing aside.

  Our pastor said he's considering foregoing live services & posting sermons twice weekly on the net til the pandemic's over, as most of our members have computers & internet service.

 

What are YOUR thoughts ?

Here is what I tell my members. Pray about it and do what God tells you to do. If God is telling you to stay home, you better stay home and watch the services online. If God is telling you to go, then you better go.  I don't believe there is a one answer solution that fits everyone.

[SureWord 155]

On 12/28/2020 at 5:20 PM, Ukulelemike said:

I am curious if the early church was tempting God to keep them safe when they met, and evangelized while living in an environment when either Jews or Romans might arrest or kill them at any time. 

I wonder if the Chinese or Middle Eastern believers, who have to meet secretly, in danger of arrest, prison or death, are tempting God for meeting.

In fact, we have an excellent 2000 year history of believers choosing to assemble in Jesus' name, and dying for the privilege. Why is this any different? Is God's arm shortened that He cannot save? Can we not say, as Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego said, "If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.  But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up." 

Or maybe we ought to say, "If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the Covid 19, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O Governor. But if not, be it known unto thee, O Governor, that we will not cower in fear and skip the assembling of ourselves together, , nor bow before the pandemic which thou hast set up."

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. (Job 13:15).

I mentioned a story I read a while back written by a Korean Christian concerning his experiences during the Korean war. He mentioned about a time he witness a missionary family; husband, wife and children being buried alive for their testimony in Jesus. The father asked the mother as they were being buried if they should renounce their faith and save themselves and children and she said, to paraphrase, they've come this far they weren't going to deny Christ now.

In today's mindset, even among Christians, people would view that decision as evil especially since they could have saved their children.

This story, for some reason, reminds me of what is taking place today in America and the rest of the Western world, at least in type. I guess we've come to a place where going to church will be considered evil because you are allegedly spreading a virus. It's really a brilliant strategy by Satan I have to admit. 

[robycop3 1]

"Each, according to the dictates of one's own conscience"

[PastorMatt 1,094]

On 12/24/2020 at 8:04 PM, E Morales said:

I'm not sure if you will find a correct anwser here, for many don't even wear mask. I do believe those that are at risk, should not attend church services. Some members saying, I'm sorry you caught COVID after the fact, will not help you or me.

Every year for the past 4 years i'm hospitalized for a week with the flu, How come nobody ever told me they were sorry for not wearing a mask around me? When/if Covid is over, will you stop earing a mask in public? Virus are deadly every year to certain people, so you must publicly wear a mask the rest of your life to protect those folks. 

[Jim_Alaska 2,345]

Spot on BroMatt, that said it all and exposes the hypocrisy and double standard of not comparing the seasonal flu and Covid 19

[Ukulelemike 3,786]

On 12/31/2020 at 4:28 PM, SureWord said:

I mentioned a story I read a while back written by a Korean Christian concerning his experiences during the Korean war. He mentioned about a time he witness a missionary family; husband, wife and children being buried alive for their testimony in Jesus. The father asked the mother as they were being buried if they should renounce their faith and save themselves and children and she said, to paraphrase, they've come this far they weren't going to deny Christ now.

In today's mindset, even among Christians, people would view that decision as evil especially since they could have saved their children.

This story, for some reason, reminds me of what is taking place today in America and the rest of the Western world, at least in type. I guess we've come to a place where going to church will be considered evil because you are allegedly spreading a virus. It's really a brilliant strategy by Satan I have to admit. 

Well, this is exactly how the majority of Christian history has been for the last 2000 years, and has been continually in some countries. I am sad to suggest that one of the worst things for the church has been freedom of religion, because it has produced some of the worst cults in history, as well as the laziest, most carnal and compromising generation of Christians maybe of all time. 

[SureWord 155]

5 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Well, this is exactly how the majority of Christian history has been for the last 2000 years, and has been continually in some countries. I am sad to suggest that one of the worst things for the church has been freedom of religion, because it has produced some of the worst cults in history, as well as the laziest, most carnal and compromising generation of Christians maybe of all time. 

I agree partly. Freedom of religion has produced some crazies for sure but also with freedom of religion comes the freedom to share the truth with a broader group of people and the safety to delve into the bible even deeper without fear of repercussions. I don't see a forum like this forum existing in China or Saudi Arabia.

[robycop3 1]

  I get a flu vaccination every year. I have no kind words for those who reject vaccinations for "religious reasons", as their "reason" is false. After all, JESUS performed many cures by His power, & likely kept the disciples healthy by His power as well, a virtual vaccination.

[PastorMatt 1,094]

1 hour ago, robycop3 said:

  I get a flu vaccination every year. I have no kind words for those who reject vaccinations for "religious reasons", as their "reason" is false. After all, JESUS performed many cures by His power, & likely kept the disciples healthy by His power as well, a virtual vaccination.

Just like the disciples, I get the virtual vaccination by Jesus too. 

In all seriousness, I'm not against Vaccines. I'm a firm believer in doing your research before you decide to take a certain vaccine or not. 

[SureWord 155]

15 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  I get a flu vaccination every year. I have no kind words for those who reject vaccinations for "religious reasons", as their "reason" is false. After all, JESUS performed many cures by His power, & likely kept the disciples healthy by His power as well, a virtual vaccination.

Steelmaker, this is pure nonsense. You might as say that food stamps are "virtual feeding of the 5,000". 

I'm not against vaccinations but you better step back and consider that this isn't a typical vaccination. There's nothing wrong with taking a 'wait and see' aporoach.

[HappyChristian 3,649]

18 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  I get a flu vaccination every year. I have no kind words for those who reject vaccinations for "religious reasons", as their "reason" is false. After all, JESUS performed many cures by His power, & likely kept the disciples healthy by His power as well, a virtual vaccination.

I'm sorry, but I would have to disagree with you here. Not about getting the vaccine, which is up to the individual, but about "no kind words" for those who "for religious reason" won't get them. Their reasons for NOT getting vaccines are just as valid as your reasons FOR getting them. Were you not the one who said earlier, "Each, according to the dictates of one's own conscience"? The two postings do not match...

And I gotta say - comparing Jesus' - the Creator of the universe- healings to manmade vaccinations? Nah. Just nah.

[PastorMatt 1,094]

On 1/6/2021 at 3:04 AM, HappyChristian said:

 Were you not the one who said earlier, "Each, according to the dictates of one's own conscience"? The two postings do not match...