Calvanism

[Baptistsenior]

I asked my old IFB Pastor once if we were Calvanist or Arminian  I won't tell his answer cause I want your thoughts  

[Pastor Scott Markle]

1 hour ago, Baptistsenior said:

I asked my old IFB Pastor once if we were Calvanist or Arminian  I won't tell his answer cause I want your thoughts  

So, are you asking what I would consider myself?  If so, I would answer --

1.  I am a ZERO point Calvinist (in relation to the doctrine of salvation).
2.  I am a THREE point Arminian (in relation to the doctrine of salvation) (because three of the points are mutually exclusive, being an either/or proposition, having no third option).
3.  I am TWO points neither, and thus am not actually either Calvinist or Arminian in my doctrinal system (in relation to the doctrine of salvation). 
4.  In fact, I would simply say that I seek to be Biblical in my system of belief, and thus will hold to any point from any system that I find to be Biblical, but will stand contrary to any point from any system that I find to be unbiblical.  (Note: This includes whether I find a point to be unbiblical in the Calvinist system, Arminian system, or even Fundamental Baptist system.  I am not bound under the authority of any system or movement.  Rather, I am bound under the authority of GOD'S HOLY WORD!!!)

[SureWord]

Someone once said they were:

Arminian before the cross and Calvinist after the cross.

There's a lot of truth in that statement.

[Hugh_Flower]

Just a bible believer.

I do not care what camp, they are all around the same shore. 

[Ukulelemike]

Biblicist. Calvinism and Arminianism have some good points, but are both too filled with man's doctrines that I could accept neither. More philosophy than doctrine.

[Jordan Kurecki]

On 12/23/2020 at 4:25 PM, SureWord said:

Someone once said they were:

Arminian before the cross and Calvinist after the cross.

There's a lot of truth in that statement.

I fail to see any truth in that statement. 

[SureWord]

35 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

I fail to see any truth in that statement. 

I explained what the preacher meant in another thread. He was being tongue-in-cheek.

He was inferring that a man has freewill (Arminian) to reject Christ's gift of salvation ("before the cross") but no freewill (Calvinism) to reject Christ after he has been saved ("after the cross).

Therefore, concerning the question whether he was Arminian or Calvinist he said:

"Arminian before the cross, Calvinist after the cross".

Edited January 7 by SureWord

[Jordan Kurecki]

On 1/7/2021 at 1:41 PM, SureWord said:

I explained what the preacher meant in another thread. He was being tongue-in-cheek.

He was inferring that a man has freewill (Arminian) to reject Christ's gift of salvation ("before the cross") but no freewill (Calvinism) to reject Christ after he has been saved ("after the cross).

Therefore, concerning the question whether he was Arminian or Calvinist he said:

"Arminian before the cross, Calvinist after the cross".

Oh OK friend, I thought you were trying to imply that salvation was by works in the old testament and by grace in the new which the Bible absolutely does not teach.

[Yeshuafan]

On 1/8/2021 at 8:28 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

Oh OK friend, I thought you were trying to imply that salvation was by works in the old testament and by grace in the new which the Bible absolutely does not teach.

No, but Scofield and others did!

[Baptistsenior]

On 12/23/2020 at 9:48 AM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

So, are you asking what I would consider myself?  If so, I would answer --

1.  I am a ZERO point Calvinist (in relation to the doctrine of salvation).
2.  I am a THREE point Arminian (in relation to the doctrine of salvation) (because three of the points are mutually exclusive, being an either/or proposition, having no third option).
3.  I am TWO points neither, and thus am not actually either Calvinist or Arminian in my doctrinal system (in relation to the doctrine of salvation). 
4.  In fact, I would simply say that I seek to be Biblical in my system of belief, and thus will hold to any point from any system that I find to be Biblical, but will stand contrary to any point from any system that I find to be unbiblical.  (Note: This includes whether I find a point to be unbiblical in the Calvinist system, Arminian system, or even Fundamental Baptist system.  I am not bound under the authority of any system or movement.  Rather, I am bound under the authority of GOD'S HOLY WORD!!!)

Love this answer.    Okay when I asked my old Pastor whether we were Calvanist or Armenian, he replied neither we are Baptist they existed before and along side the other two and the other two spent time trying to kill the Baptists 

[SureWord]

4 hours ago, Baptistsenior said:

Love this answer.    Okay when I asked my old Pastor whether we were Calvanist or Armenian, he replied neither we are Baptist they existed before and along side the other two and the other two spent time trying to kill the Baptists 

When were Armenians ever trying to kill Baptists? I don't recall. I know Calvinists persecuted Baptists but followers of Jacob Arminius never did. Unless you are referring to papists but they aren't Armenians in the true sense of the word.

On 1/15/2021 at 12:01 PM, Yeshuafan said:

No, but Scofield and others did!

Scofield never taught salvation by works in the OT. Others do but not Scofield. 

Where do people come up with this stuff?

 

[Bouncing Bill]

I was predestined to believe in free will.

[Salyan]

7 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I was predestined to believe in free will.

Can't argue with that one. 

[Ukulelemike]

23 hours ago, SureWord said:

Scofield never taught salvation by works in the OT. Others do but not Scofield. 

Where do people come up with this stuff?

 

Maybe not, but he DID teach the heretical Gap theory, so...

 

[Bouncing Bill]

1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said:

Maybe not, but he DID teach the heretical Gap theory, so...

 

I am not defending or condemning the gap theory. Just musing.  I do not see how it can be condemned as heresy as time is not mentioned between versus 1 and 2 in Genesis one. Hmmm, maybe I should start a new thread on this.

[SureWord]

2 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I am not defending or condemning the gap theory. Just musing.  I do not see how it can be condemned as heresy as time is not mentioned between versus 1 and 2 in Genesis one. Hmmm, maybe I should start a new thread on this.

Start a new thread because it could get way off the OP topic 

 

[Baptistsenior]

On 5/25/2021 at 1:10 PM, SureWord said:

When were Armenians ever trying to kill Baptists? I don't recall. I know Calvinists persecuted Baptists but followers of Jacob Arminius never did. Unless you are referring to papists but they aren't Armenians in the true sense of the word.

Scofield never taught salvation by works in the OT. Others do but not Scofield. 

Where do people come up with this stuff?

 

I either got that from This day in Baptist History, or The Trail of Blood.  Everyone back then was trying to kill the baptists and they were constantly hiding 

[SureWord]

5 hours ago, Baptistsenior said:

I either got that from This day in Baptist History, or The Trail of Blood.  Everyone back then was trying to kill the baptists and they were constantly hiding 

I think it was mostly Calvinists. I know here in America it was definitely that. It was usually over re-baptizing or preaching the gospel without a license.

There's a book by William P. Grady entitled "What Hath God Wrought" that covers this.

[BrotherTony]

On 12/23/2020 at 7:38 AM, Baptistsenior said:

I asked my old IFB Pastor once if we were Calvanist or Arminian  I won't tell his answer cause I want your thoughts  

Not to be flippant or snide, but would it truly matter? Does your salvation depend on whether or not you know what position your pastor holds? I won't tell where I stand on the issue, because that is my own personal business, but people get too caught up in these theological mindsets where they don't trust the Word of God or God period, instead trying to hold fast to some theologians idea of what "salvation" is or isn't and how it is obtained/given to us. Labels don't help anyone...the Bible truth, a changed heart and life do! 

[Salyan]

My salvation may not depend on my pastor’s doctrine, but my church membership would. I personally could not attend a church that taught Calvinism – it is such an offense to the character of God.

I must confess that I don’t understand the OP. What does his pastor’s stance have to do with our responses? There are independent Baptists that are Calvinist, and independent Baptists that are not. And there is a third stance between Calvinism and Arminianism - It’s not just either or.

[SureWord]

1 hour ago, Salyan said:

My salvation may not depend on my pastor’s doctrine, but my church membership would. I personally could not attend a church that taught Calvinism – it is such an offense to the character of God.

I must confess that I don’t understand the OP. What does his pastor’s stance have to do with our responses? There are independent Baptists that are Calvinist, and independent Baptists that are not. And there is a third stance between Calvinism and Arminianism - It’s not just either or.

Yes, I never understood those that insist you have to be one or the other as if there are no other options.