Members SureWord Posted November 30, 2020 Members Share Posted November 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Ukulelemike said: I believe the concept of the "universal" church is present in scripture, BUT, I do not believe it will be actually realized until the end, when we are all assembled together under Christ, directly. Since a church must be assembled to BE a church, with order and leadership, the universal church will not fully exist until that time. The universal church is being built, it's still a church, his body, it's just not a finished building yet (Eph. 2:19-22) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SureWord Posted December 1, 2020 Members Share Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/28/2020 at 8:58 PM, Jim_Alaska said: SureWord, you were most certainly speaking about a building; for you said: "It is where members of the body of Christ, along with those who may not be saved, gather to worship" Noticeably absent in your reply is any mention of this: "1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular." This was written to a single church, which you had just said was not the body of Christ. I had posted this Scripture to refute what you said here: "A Baptist church, any of them, is not the body of Christ." Where did I say a building in that quote of mine? You must realize people can assemble anywhere. A local church can meet in scuba gear under the Pacific Ocean if they wanted too. Also, the quote to the Corinthians can apply to the "universal church". It doesn't matter if they are a single church. They are still members of the universal church. The epistle ultimately applies to every believer in any century, Baptist or not. Again, the "universal, invisible" Church (aka the body of Christ, aka the bride of Christ) are all those redeemed by the blood of Christ from Calvary to the Rapture. The local church is an assembly of professing Christians located within a certain area who usually meet in a building but can meet anywhere they choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted December 1, 2020 Administrators Share Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, SureWord said: Where did I say a building in that quote of mine? You must realize people can assemble anywhere. A local church can meet in scuba gear under the Pacific Ocean if they wanted too. I quoted where you aid that, here it is again: "It is where members of the body of Christ, along with those who may not be saved, gather to worship" Granted, you did not say it was a building, but you also did not say that the assembled members were a church. You did say in the part I quoted that the church was where the members gather to worship, that is called a building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SureWord Posted December 1, 2020 Members Share Posted December 1, 2020 The local church is the local assembly of professing believers. It's called "local" because they assemble in your local neighborhood (I know that's not always the case). I realize many times we call the building a church but we know scriptural speaking it's just a meeting place for the church. 10 hours ago, DaChaser said: The Church of Christ is the Body of Christ, all of the redeemed, regardless of their local church name/labels! Nope, one Church Body, as they are all of the redeemed , and ech saved also part of a local church! True Church of Christ members are the saved since day of Pentecost! The Church began at Calvary but the abiding Comforter came at Pentecost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SureWord Posted December 1, 2020 Members Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) On 11/28/2020 at 8:54 PM, 360watt said: Through the bible their is two kinds of church.. The local body of Christ. .. which is a community of saved baptized believers.. does not include all redeemed. Then their is the all redeemed body. What we have at the moment is only the local body. All believers are not yet assembled in the heavenly Jerusalem. That is yet future Interesting thought but Ephesians 2:13,14 says the building is already being built. Remember, the Church is Christ's body, flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone. That is not something future but a present reality. Edited December 1, 2020 by SureWord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted December 1, 2020 Members Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) Hebrews 12:22-24 specifically mentions "the general assembly and CHURCH of the firstborn" -- "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." What does this passage reveal about this "general assembly and church of the firstborn"? 1. The Who - It encompasses those whose names "are written in heaven," including the "ye" who are on the earth in the present time, as per the phrase "YE are come" in verse 22. 2. The When - It is present tense, as per the present tense verb "ARE come" in verse 22. 3. The Where - It is in heaven, as per the statement in verse 22, "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the HEAVENLY Jerusalem." Edited December 1, 2020 by Pastor Scott Markle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yeshuafan Posted December 1, 2020 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/24/2020 at 9:04 PM, Jim_Alaska said: By your own words, both you and SureWord believe in two churches. Christ instituted what he called His church....singular. One Church, as the true Church is all of the redeemed from various local churches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted December 1, 2020 Administrators Share Posted December 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Yeshuafan said: One Church, as the true Church is all of the redeemed from various local churches! The word "church", by definition is an assembly of people. How do you assemble people from all over the world? You can't. If you say, as you did "all the redeemed from various local churches", then you are talking about universal church. MikeWatson1 and Alan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted December 1, 2020 Members Share Posted December 1, 2020 45 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said: The word "church", by definition is an assembly of people. How do you assemble people from all over the world? You can't. Thank you for the the excellent, logical, and correct, usage of the word 'assembly' Jim. Jim_Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yeshuafan Posted December 1, 2020 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2020 59 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said: The word "church", by definition is an assembly of people. How do you assemble people from all over the world? You can't. If you say, as you did "all the redeemed from various local churches", then you are talking about universal church. The Body of Christ is made up of all of the redeemed, past, present, and future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted December 2, 2020 Administrators Share Posted December 2, 2020 15 hours ago, Yeshuafan said: The Body of Christ is made up of all of the redeemed, past, present, and future! No it isn't. The Scripture I quoted, conclusively proves that the local church is the body of Christ. This Scripture was spoken to the church at Corinth, a single, local church. "1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular." When the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture defines it in this manner, and so obvious and plain; I'll take the words of God over yours every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted December 2, 2020 Members Share Posted December 2, 2020 I fear that this discussion is not distinguishing that which is on the earth from that which is in heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted December 2, 2020 Moderators Share Posted December 2, 2020 On 11/30/2020 at 3:46 PM, SureWord said: The universal church is being built, it's still a church, his body, it's just not a finished building yet (Eph. 2:19-22) I think that's what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted December 2, 2020 Members Share Posted December 2, 2020 16 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said: No it isn't. The Scripture I quoted, conclusively proves that the local church is the body of Christ. This Scripture was spoken to the church at Corinth, a single, local church. "1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular." When the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture defines it in this manner, and so obvious and plain; I'll take the words of God over yours every time. The true Church is the Body and Bride of Jesus Christ, not just local baptists! 1 hour ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: I fear that this discussion is not distinguishing that which is on the earth from that which is in heaven. Church has the Apostles ikn it as founding fathers, and they were not really part of a local Baptist church! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted December 2, 2020 Administrators Share Posted December 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, DaChaser said: The true Church is the Body and Bride of Jesus Christ, not just local baptists! Church has the Apostles ikn it as founding fathers, and they were not really part of a local Baptist church! What? The Apostles were the founding fathers but they were not really a part of a local Baptist Church? They were the very first Baptist Church, the church at Jerusalem. 1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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