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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Is there the concept of ther Unversal Church in the Bible?

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Yeshuafan
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No! 

Jesus only built one kind of church.

There are those who would teach that the word “church” can mean two different things depending on who is viewing it. Possibly the worst error is the theory that in certain instances the church can mean what is called a “Universal Church”. This error teaches that all the saved make up this Universal Church.         

          It is defined as the universal, invisible church because we supposedly cannot see it in its totality, for it is spread out over the whole world. It is taught that only God can see His Universal Church, but Scripture as well as the original Greek meaning of the word “church” proves that this theory is in error and contrary to Scripture. 

    The original Greek meaning of the word church demands that it be local and visible. Therefore, their Universal Church theory is a perversion of what Scripture clearly teaches. You cannot assemble something that is spread all over the world. You cannot have doctrinal unity because there are saved people in every denomination, all teaching different doctrines. You cannot exercise church discipline, first because you have no idea where discipline needs to be applied.  And second because you cannot discipline another church’s members. You cannot have the same love one for another, or provide for the needs of the congregation because it is not a congregation, it is dispersed world wide. You cannot teach the “same thing” because this supposed Universal Church all believe different things.

          1Cor. 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

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33 minutes ago, Yeshuafan said:

I would see that there is, as that Body would be made up of all of the redeemed, as Jesus true Church would be His Bodt, which is ther Church universal.

NOT the Catholic Church way of viewing this!

1) There's the Church, the body of believers spiritually baptized into Christ from Pentecost to the Rapture.

2) There's the local church, a group professing believers who are members via baptism. Well, should be via baptism and a profession of faith. Not all are immersed. A local church, including an IFB, can contained saved and unsaved members.

3) Then there's "Baptist Briderism" or "Landmarkism" which is a ridiculous teaching that only Baptist churches are the true body of Christ and can trace their origins to John the Baptist an OT prophet who died before our Lord's crucifixion. You need to be dunked in water to became part of "the body". Baptism in Romans 6 is a water baptism although water doesn't always have to be associated with baptism. A man can be baptized with literal fire (Matthew 3:11,12). Some teach re-baptism in order to join their local assembly which I experienced. If you are not a member of a Baptist church (the pastor teaching this doctrine of men is usually is referring to his Baptist church) then you will not be part of the Marriage Supper and I guess will be a doing the dishes. John Wesley will be Billy Graham's busboy.

4) Finally, there's the RCC which is a Satanic counterfeit, although I do believe there are some saved Catholics they just don't understand the liberty they have in Christ. The papacy itself is from the pits of hell and is full of demons. "Catholic" (i.e. universal) here simply means universally full off every devil and foul spirit 

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1 hour ago, SureWord said:

1) There's the Church, the body of believers spiritually baptized into Christ from Pentecost to the Rapture.

2) There's the local church, a group professing believers who are members via baptism. Well, should be via baptism and a profession of faith. Not all are immersed. A local church, including an IFB, can contained saved and unsaved members.

3) Then there's "Baptist Briderism" or "Landmarkism" which is a ridiculous teaching that only Baptist churches are the true body of Christ and can trace their origins to John the Baptist an OT prophet who died before our Lord's crucifixion. You need to be dunked in water to became part of "the body". Baptism in Romans 6 is a water baptism although water doesn't always have to be associated with baptism. A man can be baptized with literal fire (Matthew 3:11,12). Some teach re-baptism in order to join their local assembly which I experienced. If you are not a member of a Baptist church (the pastor teaching this doctrine of men is usually is referring to his Baptist church) then you will not be part of the Marriage Supper and I guess will be a doing the dishes. John Wesley will be Billy Graham's busboy.

4) Finally, there's the RCC which is a Satanic counterfeit, although I do believe there are some saved Catholics they just don't understand the liberty they have in Christ. The papacy itself is from the pits of hell and is full of demons. "Catholic" (i.e. universal) here simply means universally full off every devil and foul spirit 

I have dealt with those who hold to view 3, but I hold to view 1/2!

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On 11/24/2020 at 9:04 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

By your own words, both you and SureWord believe in two churches. Christ instituted what he called His church....singular.

LOL...what?

Apparently, what I said went right over your head, brother.

A Baptist church, any of them, is not the body of Christ. It is where members of the body of Christ, along with those who may not be saved, gather to worship God regardless of what the "original Greek meaning" says. Frankly, I'm surprised you tried using that argument.

 

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These words were spoken to the church at Corinth; a single church, not some invisible entity:

1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

A church is not where members meet to worship; where they meet to worship is a building. A church is the assembly of individual members.

Frankly I am surprised that you, claiming to be an Independent Baptist, do not know that a church is an assembly of people, not a building.

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On 11/27/2020 at 1:33 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

These words were spoken to the church at Corinth; a single church, not some invisible entity:

1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

A church is not where members meet to worship; where they meet to worship is a building. A church is the assembly of individual members.

Frankly I am surprised that you, claiming to be an Independent Baptist, do not know that a church is an assembly of people, not a building.

A church is an assembly of people.

1) The assembly of all saved in Christ in heaven and earth.

2) A group of professing Christians gathered at a local assembly.

A local church can have unsaved people in it. The body of Christ does not have any unsaved in it.

I'm not speaking about any building.

You have to ask yourself, "Are those who have died and gone to heaven still members of 'the church', Baptist or otherwise?" Obviously no but they are part of the "invisible church" baptized into the body of Christ. What we do at the local church, i.e. baptism, worship, church membership, etc. is just an outward testimony of this spiritual reality.

I am an IFBer but I don't take it to a cultic degree teaching that the Baptist Church is "the one, true Church". 

 

 

 

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Through the bible their is two kinds of church..

 

The local body of Christ. .. which is a community of saved baptized believers.. does not include all redeemed. 

 

Then their is the all redeemed body. 

 

What we have at the moment is only the local body.  All believers are not yet assembled in the heavenly Jerusalem. That is yet future

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SureWord, you were most certainly speaking about a building; for you said: "It is where members of the body of Christ, along with those who may not be saved, gather to worship"

Noticeably absent in your reply is any mention of this: "1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."  This was written to a single church, which you had just said was not the body of Christ.

I had posted this Scripture to refute what you said here: "A Baptist church, any of them, is not the body of Christ."

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On 11/27/2020 at 1:33 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

These words were spoken to the church at Corinth; a single church, not some invisible entity:

1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

A church is not where members meet to worship; where they meet to worship is a building. A church is the assembly of individual members.

Frankly I am surprised that you, claiming to be an Independent Baptist, do not know that a church is an assembly of people, not a building.

Far too people realize the church is the people and the building only a meeting place. If we meet in the forest to worship, then the church is there in the forest ... or wherever we meet. 

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On 11/27/2020 at 9:57 AM, SureWord said:

LOL...what?

Apparently, what I said went right over your head, brother.

A Baptist church, any of them, is not the body of Christ. It is where members of the body of Christ, along with those who may not be saved, gather to worship God regardless of what the "original Greek meaning" says. Frankly, I'm surprised you tried using that argument.

 

The Church of Christ is the Body of Christ, all of the redeemed, regardless of their local church name/labels!

On 11/24/2020 at 6:04 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

By your own words, both you and SureWord believe in two churches. Christ instituted what he called His church....singular.

Nope, one Church Body, as they are all of the redeemed , and ech saved also part of a local church!

On 11/27/2020 at 10:33 AM, Jim_Alaska said:

These words were spoken to the church at Corinth; a single church, not some invisible entity:

1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

A church is not where members meet to worship; where they meet to worship is a building. A church is the assembly of individual members.

Frankly I am surprised that you, claiming to be an Independent Baptist, do not know that a church is an assembly of people, not a building.

True Church of Christ members are the saved since day of Pentecost!

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On 11/28/2020 at 4:14 PM, SureWord said:

A church is an assembly of people.

1) The assembly of all saved in Christ in heaven and earth.

2) A group of professing Christians gathered at a local assembly.

A local church can have unsaved people in it. The body of Christ does not have any unsaved in it.

I'm not speaking about any building.

You have to ask yourself, "Are those who have died and gone to heaven still members of 'the church', Baptist or otherwise?" Obviously no but they are part of the "invisible church" baptized into the body of Christ. What we do at the local church, i.e. baptism, worship, church membership, etc. is just an outward testimony of this spiritual reality.

I am an IFBer but I don't take it to a cultic degree teaching that the Baptist Church is "the one, true Church". 

 

 

 

There are saved catholics, Methodists, and we Baptists, as all of us saved by same Lord Jesus and by same Grace!

On 11/28/2020 at 5:54 PM, 360watt said:

Through the bible their is two kinds of church..

 

The local body of Christ. .. which is a community of saved baptized believers.. does not include all redeemed. 

 

Then their is the all redeemed body. 

 

What we have at the moment is only the local body.  All believers are not yet assembled in the heavenly Jerusalem. That is yet future

That would be the Church Universal!

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On 11/28/2020 at 5:58 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

SureWord, you were most certainly speaking about a building; for you said: "It is where members of the body of Christ, along with those who may not be saved, gather to worship"

Noticeably absent in your reply is any mention of this: "1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."  This was written to a single church, which you had just said was not the body of Christ.

I had posted this Scripture to refute what you said here: "A Baptist church, any of them, is not the body of Christ."

Only the saved are part of the true Church of Christ!

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I believe the concept of the "universal" church is present in scripture, BUT, I do not believe it will be actually realized until the end, when we are all assembled together under Christ, directly. Since a church must be assembled to BE a church, with order and leadership, the universal church will not fully exist until that time.

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5 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

I believe the concept of the "universal" church is present in scripture, BUT, I do not believe it will be actually realized until the end, when we are all assembled together under Christ, directly. Since a church must be assembled to BE a church, with order and leadership, the universal church will not fully exist until that time.

The universal church is being built, it's still a church, his body, it's just not a finished building yet (Eph. 2:19-22)

 

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On 11/28/2020 at 8:58 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

SureWord, you were most certainly speaking about a building; for you said: "It is where members of the body of Christ, along with those who may not be saved, gather to worship"

Noticeably absent in your reply is any mention of this: "1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."  This was written to a single church, which you had just said was not the body of Christ.

I had posted this Scripture to refute what you said here: "A Baptist church, any of them, is not the body of Christ."

Where did I say a building in that quote of mine? You must realize people can assemble anywhere. A local church can meet in scuba gear under the Pacific Ocean if they wanted too.

Also, the quote to the Corinthians can apply to the "universal church". It doesn't matter if they are a single church. They are still members of the universal church. The epistle ultimately applies to every believer in any century, Baptist or not.

Again, the "universal, invisible" Church (aka the body of Christ, aka the bride of Christ)  are all those redeemed by the blood of Christ from Calvary to the Rapture. The local church is an assembly of professing Christians located within a certain area who usually meet in a building but can meet anywhere they choose. 

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🙄

1 hour ago, SureWord said:

Where did I say a building in that quote of mine? You must realize people can assemble anywhere. A local church can meet in scuba gear under the Pacific Ocean if they wanted too.

I quoted where you aid that, here it is again:  "It is where members of the body of Christ, along with those who may not be saved, gather to worship"

Granted, you did not say it was a building, but you also did not say that the assembled members were a church. You did say in the part I quoted that the church was where the members gather to worship, that is called a building.  🙄

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The local church is the local assembly of professing believers. It's called "local" because they assemble in your local neighborhood (I know that's not always the case). 

I realize many times we call the building a church but we know scriptural speaking it's just a meeting place for the church.

 

10 hours ago, DaChaser said:

The Church of Christ is the Body of Christ, all of the redeemed, regardless of their local church name/labels!

Nope, one Church Body, as they are all of the redeemed , and ech saved also part of a local church!

True Church of Christ members are the saved since day of Pentecost!

The Church began at Calvary but the abiding Comforter came at Pentecost.

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On 11/28/2020 at 8:54 PM, 360watt said:

Through the bible their is two kinds of church..

 

The local body of Christ. .. which is a community of saved baptized believers.. does not include all redeemed. 

 

Then their is the all redeemed body. 

 

What we have at the moment is only the local body.  All believers are not yet assembled in the heavenly Jerusalem. That is yet future

Interesting thought but Ephesians 2:13,14 says the building is already being built. 

Remember, the Church is Christ's body, flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone. That is not something future but a present reality.

Edited by SureWord
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