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False.  My questions are assuming no such things.  They say nothing about "deserving" grace, nor do they say anything whatsoever at all about fairness.  In fact, you have already asked me questions ab

On your first point, let me say this:  Jn 1:9 "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. " Jn 3:14, 15 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderne

As for the issue of infants, Paul, I believe, made this answer clear, for those who will hear it: Romans 7: 7: What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by

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Another thing about Spurgeon is that he never let Theological intellectualism to get in the way of the practical commands of scripture. So while he was a Calvinist he was also very concerned with carrying out the great commission through evangelism. Also if one looks beyond his Calvinism and into most of his messages they will see a person more in line with today's Fundamentalist Baptist than with today's Reformed Calvinist.

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2 hours ago, John Young said:

Another thing about Spurgeon is that he never let Theological intellectualism to get in the way of the practical commands of scripture. So while he was a Calvinist he was also very concerned with carrying out the great commission through evangelism. Also if one looks beyond his Calvinism and into most of his messages they will see a person more in line with today's Fundamentalist Baptist than with today's Reformed Calvinist.

Yes, he was a Calvinist who practiced soul winning.

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  Not necessarily. He evidently learned it from Scripture study.

  Now, I believe we all agree God is perfectly-just. Would it be perfectly-just for Him to create people predestinated for hell no matter what?

  Obviously, God created some people predestined to serve Him, such as Moses, Jeremiah, & Paul, among others. And we are repeatedly exhorted to spread the Gospel, by Jesus Himself, & the apostles. He would not have done that, nor given the "Great Commission" if everyone were already predestinated with no chance to change it.

I choose to believe 2 Peter 3:9 & NOT tiptoe thru the TULIP !

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26 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

So, was Spurgeon predestined to believe in free will?

And so it goes; the fatal mistake of all Hyper-Calvinists. God's Word never indicates that predestination applies to anything other than that, those who are saved be conformed to the image of His Son. Romans 8:29 (KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

God's Word never says or indicates that anyone is predestined to be saved or go to Hell. As a matter of fact God's Word does not indicate that anyone is predestined to anything other than to be conformed to the image of his Son once they are saved.

Calvinism is and always has been an invention of the fertile mind of man that seeks to prove a fallacious belief, rather than allowing Scripture to dictate an accurate interpretation of itself.

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Predestination solely has to do with the final outcome of those who believe in the Son of God. God has determined beforehand that all who receive his Son by their own freewill will someday be conformed into the image of his Son. 

Spurgeon may have believed Calvin's nonsense in his head but the Holy Ghost in his heart told him otherwise.

 

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On 11/24/2020 at 7:49 AM, Jim_Alaska said:

And so it goes; the fatal mistake of all Hyper-Calvinists. God's Word never indicates that predestination applies to anything other than that, those who are saved be conformed to the image of His Son. Romans 8:29 (KJV) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

God's Word never says or indicates that anyone is predestined to be saved or go to Hell. As a matter of fact God's Word does not indicate that anyone is predestined to anything other than to be conformed to the image of his Son once they are saved.

Calvinism is and always has been an invention of the fertile mind of man that seeks to prove a fallacious belief, rather than allowing Scripture to dictate an accurate interpretation of itself.

Predestination refers to only the Elected by the father to be now found in Christ, not to the lost!

On 11/24/2020 at 8:14 AM, SureWord said:

Predestination solely has to do with the final outcome of those who believe in the Son of God. God has determined beforehand that all who receive his Son by their own freewill will someday be conformed into the image of his Son. 

Spurgeon may have believed Calvin's nonsense in his head but the Holy Ghost in his heart told him otherwise.

 

Interesting how so many non calvinists like to use term Hyper Cal, even though they are a minority fringe in Calvinism!

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2 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Predestination refers to only the Elected by the father to be now found in Christ, not to the lost!

Interesting how so many non calvinists like to use term Hyper Cal, even though they are a minority fringe in Calvinism!

I don't recall using that word but I once read some stuff by a Calvinist who taught that God will toss babies into hell. Now I imagine he's a "Hyper" yet, let me tell you, he was the most consistent Calvinist in his beliefs I've ever read. 

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33 minutes ago, SureWord said:

I don't recall using that word but I once read some stuff by a Calvinist who taught that God will toss babies into hell. Now I imagine he's a "Hyper" yet, let me tell you, he was the most consistent Calvinist in his beliefs I've ever read. 

Have you ever met a Calvinist who did not believe they were a member of the elect?

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3 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Have you ever met a Calvinist who did not believe they were a member of the elect?

ALL who are saved think they are part of the elect, the difference is how they became elected!

4 hours ago, SureWord said:

I don't recall using that word but I once read some stuff by a Calvinist who taught that God will toss babies into hell. Now I imagine he's a "Hyper" yet, let me tell you, he was the most consistent Calvinist in his beliefs I've ever read. 

Think Calvin stated Hell is full of babies, but I choose to see it as God has chosen to elect unto salvation all infants!

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3 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Have you ever met a Calvinist who did not believe they were a member of the elect?

Not sure what you asking? "They" as in babies or "they" as in Calvinists in general?

All I know is if you hold to that false doctrine you end up with babies getting tossed into eternal flames and are supposed to give God thanks for that which that gentleman said we must do.

They only way out of this logical conclusion is to say:

1) Only elect babies die, i.e. God knew in his foreknowledge the babies who would die and predestined them to heaven.

 or

2) Babies who die before the age of accountability were never predestined either way and are not a member of the bride of Christ specifically but a member of the family of God in general (Ephesians 3:14,15).

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43 minutes ago, DaChaser said:

ALL who are saved think they are part of the elect, the difference is how they became elected!

Think Calvin stated Hell is full of babies, but I choose to see it as God has chosen to elect unto salvation all infants!

Honestly, I've never read Calvin's (aka the Protestant Pope) writings himself but I have read some of Loraine Boettner who was a hardcore, 5-Point Tuliper and was as dry, boring and dreadful as can be. I've heard he took Calvin's heresies even farther than Calvin ever imagined (minus the burning at the stake of anyone who disagreed with him).

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On 11/30/2020 at 3:31 PM, SureWord said:

Not sure what you asking? "They" as in babies or "they" as in Calvinists in general?

All I know is if you hold to that false doctrine you end up with babies getting tossed into eternal flames and are supposed to give God thanks for that which that gentleman said we must do.

They only way out of this logical conclusion is to say:

1) Only elect babies die, i.e. God knew in his foreknowledge the babies who would die and predestined them to heaven.

 or

2) Babies who die before the age of accountability were never predestined either way and are not a member of the bride of Christ specifically but a member of the family of God in general (Ephesians 3:14,15).

Or that the father had chosen them all to be found elected to salvation in Christ, doing for them what could not do for themselves!

On 11/30/2020 at 3:36 PM, SureWord said:

Honestly, I've never read Calvin's (aka the Protestant Pope) writings himself but I have read some of Loraine Boettner who was a hardcore, 5-Point Tuliper and was as dry, boring and dreadful as can be. I've heard he took Calvin's heresies even farther than Calvin ever imagined (minus the burning at the stake of anyone who disagreed with him).

Predestination and Election are biblical, but have to make sure its as jesus and paul tought, not as some such as calvin did! I hold to biblical calvinism....

On 11/30/2020 at 5:53 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

This thread is becoming downright ridiculous, which usually happens when a Calvinist discussion gets going. Those lining up with Calvin always take the argument to the extreme ridiculous.

We Calvinists are not all of the same  though, as some are Hyper, some Charasmatic, some Calvinites, others like me just Calvinist!

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9 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Or that the father had chosen them all to be found elected to salvation in Christ, doing for them what could not do for themselves!

Predestination and Election are biblical, but have to make sure its as jesus and paul tought, not as some such as calvin did! I hold to biblical calvinism....

We Calvinists are not all of the same  though, as some are Hyper, some Charasmatic, some Calvinites, others like me just Calvinist!

DaChasing your tail on this one, brother. You are making way more of predestination than what it is.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.- Romans 8:29

Paul is talking about being predestined to conformity to the image of Christ. Remember, context, context, context. The context of the passage is about our bodies being changed from corruption to incorruption as Jesus Christ's body. The "firstborn among many brethren" has to do with a resurrected and glorified body  Nothing about God presdestinating some to heaven and some to hell as Calvin taught. 

God foreknew who would use their freewill to accept his Son as Savior and set it in stone that they would be as Jesus someday.

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On 11/21/2020 at 9:46 AM, Baptistsenior said:

Why do preachers that condemn Calvanism quote Spurgeon so often?  

I've found that when one person uses the word "Calvinism" it rarely means what everyone else thinks it means. There are a lot of different types of Calvinism, some of them hyper-Calvinism, some of them simply "once saved always saved"-ism. You can't assume any one speaker is using your exact definition. You have to feel out what exactly they mean. For my part, I consider myself a 4.5 point Calvinist, because one of the points is often interpreted in a different way than I interpret it. And that presents another problem, even the very points of Calvinism (TULIP) can be interpreted differently, mean two "5-point" Calvinists may disagree a lot, but both still consider themselves staunch Calvinists. I've found some people who denounce Calvinism can be more staunch Calvinists that some who claim they actually are Calvinist. 

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22 hours ago, Danny Carlton said:

I've found that when one person uses the word "Calvinism" it rarely means what everyone else thinks it means. There are a lot of different types of Calvinism, some of them hyper-Calvinism, some of them simply "once saved always saved"-ism. You can't assume any one speaker is using your exact definition. You have to feel out what exactly they mean. For my part, I consider myself a 4.5 point Calvinist, because one of the points is often interpreted in a different way than I interpret it. And that presents another problem, even the very points of Calvinism (TULIP) can be interpreted differently, mean two "5-point" Calvinists may disagree a lot, but both still consider themselves staunch Calvinists. I've found some people who denounce Calvinism can be more staunch Calvinists that some who claim they actually are Calvinist. 

But don't they all believe that infants are predestinated to go to heaven or hell whether they want to or not?  

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2 hours ago, Baptistsenior said:

But don't they all believe that infants are predestinated to go to heaven or hell whether they want to or not?  

The explanation for this is that only predestined babies die. Of course, that's just pulling nonsense out of their hat to bolster their heretical doctrine. 

What's really amazing is how Baptists, particularly IFB, have swallow the TULIP heresy when originally they were persecuted by those who held it. I think in order to fit in with the intellectuals at Christian Universities many IFBers have succumbed to the heresy. 

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21 hours ago, SureWord said:

The explanation for this is that only predestined babies die. Of course, that's just pulling nonsense out of their hat to bolster their heretical doctrine. 

What's really amazing is how Baptists, particularly IFB, have swallow the TULIP heresy when originally they were persecuted by those who held it. I think in order to fit in with the intellectuals at Christian Universities many IFBers have succumbed to the heresy. 

never knew how they believed on the infant issue till I read  the London Baptist Confession of faith of 1689

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On 12/7/2020 at 8:10 AM, Baptistsenior said:

But don't they all believe that infants are predestinated to go to heaven or hell whether they want to or not?  

But whether that belief denotes mere Calvinism or hyper-Calvinism is the question and different people have different answers.

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On 12/12/2020 at 9:28 AM, Baptistsenior said:

So what is the difference between hyper calvinism and Spurgeon's calvinism? 

You could offer a definition, I could offer a definition, but there would result in thousands of other definitions disagreeing with either. The old rules of "Before you begin a debate, define the terms" seems to have been completely ignored when it comes to Calvinism. I wonder if the ignore it when Armenians discuss Arminianism?

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45 minutes ago, Danny Carlton said:

You could offer a definition, I could offer a definition, but there would result in thousands of other definitions disagreeing with either. The old rules of "Before you begin a debate, define the terms" seems to have been completely ignored when it comes to Calvinism. I wonder if the ignore it when Armenians discuss Arminianism?

True that, and if all else fails they'll change the definitions.  My old Pastor taught us that we were neither Calvanist nor Arminian, we were just Baptist (the ones that the other two groups persecuted

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On 12/7/2020 at 11:22 AM, SureWord said:

The explanation for this is that only predestined babies die. Of course, that's just pulling nonsense out of their hat to bolster their heretical doctrine. 

What's really amazing is how Baptists, particularly IFB, have swallow the TULIP heresy when originally they were persecuted by those who held it. I think in order to fit in with the intellectuals at Christian Universities many IFBers have succumbed to the heresy. 

I believe that all infants are elected by God unto salvation, and I am a Calvinist

On 12/8/2020 at 8:34 AM, Baptistsenior said:

never knew how they believed on the infant issue till I read  the London Baptist Confession of faith of 1689

I use that Confession but only the scriptures were inspired!

On 12/12/2020 at 10:28 AM, Baptistsenior said:

So what is the difference between hyper calvinism and Spurgeon's calvinism? 

Hypers believe in eternal Justification, so the elect are already saved, no need to have missions or evangelism, while we Calvinists hold to election/Predestination, but that God still has ordained that the Gospel message is what is used to bring them unto Jesus and to get saved!

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23 hours ago, Yeshuafan said:

I believe that all infants are elected by God unto salvation, and I am a Calvinist

I use that Confession but only the scriptures were inspired!

Hypers believe in eternal Justification, so the elect are already saved, no need to have missions or evangelism, while we Calvinists hold to election/Predestination, but that God still has ordained that the Gospel message is what is used to bring them unto Jesus and to get saved!

I believe that all babies that die go to heaven because they have not refused Christ as their savior which is how you go to hell 

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