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Phil Kidd - Where do I go if I leave the IFB movement?


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The video below made me think of a bunch of questions about the IFB. In the video, Kidd talks about those wanting to leave the IFB movement. My questions is, how do you leave a movement that you never joined, and what do you have to do to leave. Now, I'm an Independent Baptist, but I do not understand how you get in the IFB in order to leave it. Can you get kicked out of the IFB? If your doctrine does not change, are you still an IFB? I think we put more emphasis sometimes on the label IFB (both sides) than we do on the Word of God. What's all your thoughts? 

 

https://www.facebook.com/39843727181/videos/628270694494646/

 

 

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  • PastorMatt changed the title to Phil Kidd - Where do I go if I leave the IFB movement?
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2 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

The video below made me think of a bunch of questions about the IFB. In the video, Kidd talks about those wanting to leave the IFB movement. My questions is, how do you leave a movement that you never joined, and what do you have to do to leave. Now, I'm an Independent Baptist, but I do not understand how you get in the IFB in order to leave it. Can you get kicked out of the IFB? If your doctrine does not change, are you still an IFB? I think we put more emphasis sometimes on the label IFB (both sides) than we do on the Word of God. What's all your thoughts? 

 

 

 

There are an awful lot of differences in churches and groups that call themselves IFB, some, as we know, border on the heretical, and some are plain weird. Gap theory, Noah's son sexually molested Noah, angels marrying humans, Devils being the size of mosquitos, even, dare I say it, flat earthers, among many, many others.  What I see is the "I" part of IFB-we are all Independent of one another, which means if there is someone who is a wacko teaching false doctrines, or someone abusing the sheep, I will not, and cannot, be lumped in together with them. 

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I agree with you Mike, I just keep hearing more and more preachers say they are leaving IFB, but not changing beliefs. Who do they send their resignation letter to to pull out, the IFB Headquarters? 

To be honest, listening to Phil Kidd it seems like this done to get attention. Hope I'm wrong. 

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4 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

I agree with you Mike, I just keep hearing more and more preachers say they are leaving IFB, but not changing beliefs. Who do they send their resignation letter to to pull out, the IFB Headquarters? 

To be honest, listening to Phil Kidd it seems like this done to get attention. Hope I'm wrong. 

I think for most it just means they're dumping the name. But that's a slippery slope, because first the name goes, then the music slides, and soon the preacher is wearing skinny jeans and a man bun, standing in front of the drumset, preaching from the ESV and talking about the upcoming Beer-hall Bible-study.

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20 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

There are an awful lot of differences in churches and groups that call themselves IFB, some, as we know, border on the heretical, and some are plain weird. Gap theory, Noah's son sexually molested Noah, angels marrying humans, Devils being the size of mosquitos, even, dare I say it, flat earthers, among many, many others.  What I see is the "I" part of IFB-we are all Independent of one another, which means if there is someone who is a wacko teaching false doctrines, or someone abusing the sheep, I will not, and cannot, be lumped in together with them. 

Believing, or not believing, any one of the things you listed doesn't determine whether someone is IFB or not. What determines it is they are an independent body of believers not affiliated with any presbyter, synod, council, etc etc but are self governing,  they hold to the fundamentals of the faith which can range from five to probably fifteen core doctrines of scripture. Believing in any strange doctrine like "angels marrying humans" or the "gap theory" has no bearing on whether on is borderline heretical (whatever that means) or not. And finally, that they practice believers baptism by submersion.

Many preachers and churches, IMO, when they say they are leaving the IFB movement it's that they are dumping the designation or label of IFB but in faith and practice are essentially the same. I asked this question before why this is happening and only got one response. I think some churches are trying to distance themselves from the negativity assosciated with the term IFB that has develop because of all the abuse in some of the more high profile churches and schools.  I'm familiar with Phil Kidd and he's never really towed the IFB line and always marched to the beat of his own drum. I wouldn't be surprised it was because he was tired of some of the big wig, "Sword of the Lord", pastoral authority preachers trying to run his ministry. Just a guess on my part, though.

I do know of some pastors who do not like the term "fundamentalist" because they say it doesn't go far enough in stating their position because many IFB pastors are a bunch of bible correctors and claim only the fundamentals were preserved in scripture. These pastors prefer to be called "bible believing" or "King James bible believing".

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I understand the dropping of the label, but if Phil Kidd is just dropping the label, then why does he say "Where do I go if I leave the movement?"

I've never been one for labels, I am what I am. I have many fellow IFB pastor friends, and who they have in their church preach/sing and what they believe really doesn't bother me. I'm not accountable to them. We have our own problems within our walls, I don't need another churches problems thrown in.

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I will not watch any videos with Phil Kidd in them, whether it's him preaching or someone praising or condemning him for whatever hobby horse he's on/language he's used this week. I've listened to him "preach" before and I couldn't finish the video. That's all I will say about that.

The IFB is a movement of sorts, but not in the sense that there is an overseeing board or group that tell the other IFB churches what to say, preach, etc. Not in that sense. For the most part, the majority of IFB churches are indeed independent of other churches while still following the same core Biblical doctrines. So if I travel from Missouri to Oregon, and want to attend an IFB church, I should be able to find one that has the same core Biblical doctrinal beliefs as my home church and thus should not have any worries about hearing unsound preaching.

However, there are certain churches that have a "circle" of other churches that are almost identical in their personal beliefs (not doctrines - personal beliefs) and these can be known by the "ite's" they follow (Ruckmanite, Andersonite, Hylesite, etc.). These churches follow the set core personal beliefs of one of these men and elevate their personal beliefs to the level of Bible doctrine. If I walk into an Andersonite church (An IFB church that follows and adheres to the personal beliefs of Steven Anderson, almost holding his words above the Bible, so Bible doctrine + man), I know what circle they're in and I will probably not be welcomed, nor would I stay.  

Because I refuse to watch the OP video of Phil Kidd raising the question of "where" one would go if they leave the IFB "movement", I do not know what answer he gives(it also depends on which "movement/circle" he was involved in). Here is my answer. I'm sure others will have differing opinions, and that's fine, it's just my take on the question. 

I do not belong to any "circles" that follow men. My home church (as far as I know), are not "ite" followers, it's an IFB church in the true sense of the words, they hold the Bible as the final authority. If I belonged to a church that did follow a man, then I would want to leave that circle or movement. I would do this by finding an IFB church that holds to the core doctrines of IFB, where the Bible is the final authority, etc... However, leaving a circle that one has been heavily involved in would not be easy. Very often, they would lose friends, be gossiped about in the church, and basically vilified. Because leaving that circle of influence means you reject the man that the church holds so dear, and so you are rejecting the pastor, rejecting the church family, and in turn, rejecting God. Regular laypeople may not experience such extremism, but I imagine a pastor, evangelist, or missionary who has been walking in these circles for years or decades will have a difficult time leaving and ask the question "where do I go?"

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6 hours ago, Rebecca said:

I will not watch any videos with Phil Kidd in them, whether it's him preaching or someone praising or condemning him for whatever hobby horse he's on/language he's used this week. I've listened to him "preach" before and I couldn't finish the video. That's all I will say about that.

I hear you. I've only watch a couple of his sermons before and I did not finish them either. In one he was yelling at a teenage boy that had long hair. Called him out, them ridiculed the kid as he walked out of the auditorium. 

If his preaching wasn't so "Dictatorish" I would call his preaching entertaining. Unfortunately , entertainment is what some people like. 

The reason why I started this topic is because he has a large following and was talking about the IFB. I really don't care what "Camp" he is apart of. He is not one of my sheep.

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Just a small comment at this point - There is a difference between a "movement" and an "organized association."  An "organized association" has membership by an official membership "role."  A "movement" simply has membership through interactive relationship and influence.  

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I don't lose any sleep over the "Phil Kidds" of this world in either religious "movements" or any other "circles".

I belong to a local, New Testament Church that happens to be Baptist in name. I have no need to go outside of my own church for any kind of worship, teaching or instruction.

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On 9/3/2020 at 11:01 AM, PastorMatt said:

I understand the dropping of the label, but if Phil Kidd is just dropping the label, then why does he say "Where do I go if I leave the movement?"

I've never been one for labels, I am what I am. I have many fellow IFB pastor friends, and who they have in their church preach/sing and what they believe really doesn't bother me. I'm not accountable to them. We have our own problems within our walls, I don't need another churches problems thrown in.

I suspect he means, 'With whom do I associate/fellowship?' That is the only thing I can think it means. As for the answer to that, it would be necessary to find out why he is "leaving' in the first place. 

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On 9/3/2020 at 8:06 AM, SureWord said:

Believing, or not believing, any one of the things you listed doesn't determine whether someone is IFB or not. I never meant to imply they did, though many of those mentioned, I mentioned because they seem to be held by some held hugh by the IFB community, if you will, or at least parts of them. Like the Gap theory, which is utter junk, biblically, is held by many because of their love of the Scofield Bible, which spends a bit of space pushing it. 

What determines it is they are an independent body of believers not affiliated with any presbyter, synod, council, etc etc but are self governing,  they hold to the fundamentals of the faith which can range from five to probably fifteen core doctrines of scripture. There are some that hold to all these, yet have never used the term IFB. And there are some IFB's who DON'T hold to the fundamentals, and even disagree with what ARE fundamentals.

Believing in any strange doctrine like "angels marrying humans" or the "gap theory" has no bearing on whether on is borderline heretical (whatever that means) or not. It means teaching things not found in scripture as doctrine. And finally, that they practice believers baptism by submersion. Agreed here, absolutely. Maybe the ONE area we pretty much all agree with, that and KJV, though even that is becoming a bit slippery.

Many preachers and churches, IMO, when they say they are leaving the IFB movement it's that they are dumping the designation or label of IFB but in faith and practice are essentially the same. I asked this question before why this is happening and only got one response. I think some churches are trying to distance themselves from the negativity assosciated with the term IFB that has develop because of all the abuse in some of the more high profile churches and schools.  I'm familiar with Phil Kidd and he's never really towed the IFB line and always marched to the beat of his own drum. I wouldn't be surprised it was because he was tired of some of the big wig, "Sword of the Lord", pastoral authority preachers trying to run his ministry. Just a guess on my part, though. I can't argue that. Of course, I've never listened to Kidd at all, so I won't speak to his reasoning, but if you're correct, maybe he was never really IFB at all.

I do know of some pastors who do not like the term "fundamentalist" because they say it doesn't go far enough in stating their position because many IFB pastors are a bunch of bible correctors and claim only the fundamentals were preserved in scripture. These pastors prefer to be called "bible believing" or "King James bible believing".

My comments in red aren't meant to be argumentative, just clarifying. In general on this, we agree. Just easier to hit each part in the text. 

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