Moderators Ukulelemike Posted July 28, 2020 Moderators Share Posted July 28, 2020 I got into an interesting discussion with another IFB individual on Facebook the other day, in refuting something my also IFB sister put up, saying that grace 'began' in Acts 9, which, as we all know, would coincide with the calling of Saul/Paul. I admit, I have never heard that idea. Is this an aspect of the hyper-dispensationalism of which I have heard? Is there an particular group of IFB's who hold to this position? Or does anyone on the board hold to it, that could lay out an argument for it? because as far as I understand scripture, grace "began' when Jesus rose from the dead, and brought His blood before the Father, just after His resurrection and before He met with the disciples on the road to Emmaus, and then His Apostles in the locked upper room, where he gave them the gift of the Holy ghost, (ie, the new birth). And as we all know, on Pentecost, 3000 were saved by grace, and shortly thereafter, 5000+ were saved, by grace, as well as many more, before Saul was, himself, saved by grace. So, is this a thing? because I have never heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted July 28, 2020 Administrators Share Posted July 28, 2020 Dunno Bro. Mike. Sounds like it could just be another non-issue, trying to become and issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted July 28, 2020 Members Share Posted July 28, 2020 Are we talking about the so-called "age of grace?" Or, are we talking about "saving grace?" Or, are we talking about our Lord God's characteristic of "grace?" Or, are we talking about our Lord God's first administration of grace unto mankind? Or, are we talking about our Lord God's "plan of grace?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SureWord Posted July 28, 2020 Members Share Posted July 28, 2020 Grace has always been since the beginning but most likely they are referring to the "Age of Grace" or the "gospel of the grace of God" where grace abounds through Jesus Christ. They could be hyper-dispensationalists or maybe not since many dispensationalists are accused of being "hypers". If you want to know if they are true hypers then ask them what they believe about believers baptism and communion. Hypers believe they do not apply to the Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted July 28, 2020 Author Moderators Share Posted July 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Are we talking about the so-called "age of grace?" Or, are we talking about "saving grace?" Or, are we talking about our Lord God's characteristic of "grace?" Or, are we talking about our Lord God's first administration of grace unto mankind? Or, are we talking about our Lord God's "plan of grace?" 3 hours ago, SureWord said: Grace has always been since the beginning but most likely they are referring to the "Age of Grace" or the "gospel of the grace of God" where grace abounds through Jesus Christ. They could be hyper-dispensationalists or maybe not since many dispensationalists are accused of being "hypers". If you want to know if they are true hypers then ask them what they believe about believers baptism and communion. Hypers believe they do not apply to the Church. I'd hoped the context of the question would answer these. Saving grace; grace related to salvation. John 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SureWord Posted July 29, 2020 Members Share Posted July 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Ukulelemike said: I'd hoped the context of the question would answer these. Saving grace; grace related to salvation. John 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." If you want more info on the teaching of grace starting in Acts 9 read anything by Cornelius Stam, JC O'Hair, E. Bullinger, Charles E. Baker, Les Feldick, the Berean Bible Society and the Grace Churches mostly out of Michigan which there are plenty of videos on YouTube of their services. I believe you can find Stam's book "Acts Dispensationally Considered" and Bullinger's Companion Bible notes posted for free on the internet. Bullinger does have some really good stuff like his book "Witness in the Stars". They do have some revealing teachings but they take things too far. Like I said, disregarding the two ordinances and some even saying none of the bible other than Paul's prison epistles have any application to Christians. Also, Peter Ruckman teaches a moderate form of it but not to the degree they do. He teaches that the gospel of grace revealed to Paul was not the same gospel Peter was preaching in the early part of Acts but he doesn't teach two different gospels being preached simultaneously. This difference hinged on the Jews rejection of their Messiah. The "hypers" have two different gospels at the SAME TIME being preached even to this day which is crazy. One to Israel and one to the Church. Grace did not start in Acts. The gospel of the grace of God was fully revealed to Paul after his conversion but like you said it began at Calvary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted July 29, 2020 Members Share Posted July 29, 2020 Genesis 6:8 KJV [8] But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. John Young 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted July 29, 2020 Members Share Posted July 29, 2020 21 hours ago, Ukulelemike said: I got into an interesting discussion with another IFB individual on Facebook the other day, in refuting something my also IFB sister put up, saying that grace 'began' in Acts 9, which, as we all know, would coincide with the calling of Saul/Paul. I admit, I have never heard that idea. Is this an aspect of the hyper-dispensationalism of which I have heard? Is there an particular group of IFB's who hold to this position? Or does anyone on the board hold to it, that could lay out an argument for it? because as far as I understand scripture, grace "began' when Jesus rose from the dead, and brought His blood before the Father, just after His resurrection and before He met with the disciples on the road to Emmaus, and then His Apostles in the locked upper room, where he gave them the gift of the Holy ghost, (ie, the new birth). And as we all know, on Pentecost, 3000 were saved by grace, and shortly thereafter, 5000+ were saved, by grace, as well as many more, before Saul was, himself, saved by grace. So, is this a thing? because I have never heard of it. Grace started in the garden right after the fall! John Young 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted July 29, 2020 Author Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2020 17 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said: Genesis 6:8 KJV [8] But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. 8 hours ago, DaChaser said: Grace started in the garden right after the fall! These are not grace that brought eternal life. There was not eternal life until the resurrection of Jesus Christ, else Christ need not have died. SureWord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted July 29, 2020 Members Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said: These are not grace that brought eternal life. There was not eternal life until the resurrection of Jesus Christ, else Christ need not have died. Grace was there by the giving of the first message of the Messiah, and granting Adam and Eve forgiveness! John Young 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SureWord Posted July 30, 2020 Members Share Posted July 30, 2020 3 hours ago, DaChaser said: Grace was there by the giving of the first message of the Messiah, and granting Adam and Eve forgiveness! Re-read Ukulelemike's above post again. It's deep and to the point. Adam and Eve had a promise of grace (but still had to ride it out in Abraham's Bosom) and Noah's grace was clearly a figure of the grace to come but the gift of grace did not come until the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's why we call this "economy of God" the "dispensation of grace". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted July 30, 2020 Administrators Share Posted July 30, 2020 3 hours ago, SureWord said: but the gift of grace did not come until the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's why we call this "economy of God" the "dispensation of grace". Scripture for this statement would be very helpful. You are overthinking what Grace is. It is simply the unmerited Favor of God. Genesis 6:8 (KJV) But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 1Timothy115, John Young and Alan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted July 30, 2020 Members Share Posted July 30, 2020 11 hours ago, SureWord said: Re-read Ukulelemike's above post again. It's deep and to the point. Adam and Eve had a promise of grace (but still had to ride it out in Abraham's Bosom) and Noah's grace was clearly a figure of the grace to come but the gift of grace did not come until the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's why we call this "economy of God" the "dispensation of grace". Salvation though has always been due to Grace, as none were ever saved by anything other method! 1Timothy115 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted July 30, 2020 Author Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, DaChaser said: Salvation though has always been due to Grace, as none were ever saved by anything other method! But there has never been salvation by grace until after the resurrection of Christ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted July 30, 2020 Author Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2020 Salvation by grace never happened until faith came. Faith, SAVING faith, did not come until after the law. This is what is spoken of in Galatians 3: "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. " (Gal 3:22-25) Some might say, "There has ALWAYS been faith!" indeed there has, just like there has always been grace. But here in Galatians, we see a different quality of faith, one that had not been present until after the law passed, after Christ's death, burial and resurrection, and it was that faith to which the law pointed us, and that faith which freed us from the law. What faith? SAVING faith. And saving faith works with saving grace, neither of which were present until AFTER the resurrection of Jesus Christ. For by grace are ye saved, through faith-not possible before the finished work of redemption by Jesus Christ on Calvary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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