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Can religious co-exist side-by-side?


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Posted (edited)
On 7/25/2020 at 1:32 PM, Bouncing Bill said:

I thought this a very interesting video. Who would have thought this could happen in Arabia?

 

 

Bill, what is your opinion of the video's message?

Edited by 1Timothy115
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5 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I was impressed that an Arab country is allowing such tolerance. It certainly is not the norm in that part of the world. 

What was your impression?

Not surprised. Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie. 

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38 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Not surprised. Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie. 

 

39 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Not surprised. Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie. 

I assume you did not watch the video. It would be helpful if you quoted the words of the verse you reference. I'll do it for you.

Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief… except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah, and for them is a great punishment. Quran 16:106

I see nothing here saying it is all right to lie or to comply anyone to lie. It does say that Allah {God} will bring punishment. 

I think you interpretation is not accurate. To me it is like the Bible saying that God will punish those who do not believe. 

But that is off topic. Did you watch the video?

 

 

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On 7/27/2020 at 7:51 AM, Bouncing Bill said:

I was impressed that an Arab country is allowing such tolerance. It certainly is not the norm in that part of the world. 

What was your impression?

Muslims can show tolerance on outside, but inside still hate the non Muslim, as they expect still Allah to destroy us all in end!

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On 7/29/2020 at 9:37 AM, DaChaser said:

Muslims can show tolerance on outside, but inside still hate the non Muslim, as they expect still Allah to destroy us all in end!

Well that works both ways. There are many American christians [notice little c] who may show tolerance but hate the Muslim on the inside. Both the muslim and the christian are wrong when they do this as both are violating an important tenet of their religion. 

However, did you watch the video?

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6 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Well that works both ways. There are many American christians [notice little c] who may show tolerance but hate the Muslim on the inside. Both the muslim and the christian are wrong when they do this as both are violating an important tenet of their religion. 

However, did you watch the video?

Yes

On 7/27/2020 at 2:20 PM, Bouncing Bill said:

 

I assume you did not watch the video. It would be helpful if you quoted the words of the verse you reference. I'll do it for you.

Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief… except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah, and for them is a great punishment. Quran 16:106

I see nothing here saying it is all right to lie or to comply anyone to lie. It does say that Allah {God} will bring punishment. 

I think you interpretation is not accurate. To me it is like the Bible saying that God will punish those who do not believe. 

But that is off topic. Did you watch the video?

 

 

There are passages in the Koran that tells Muslims that Allah states that they are to smile and talk peace on outside, but to keep Jihad in their hearts, as Allah will one day destroy all unbelievers!

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On 7/30/2020 at 10:06 AM, DaChaser said:

Yes

There are passages in the Koran that tells Muslims that Allah states that they are to smile and talk peace on outside, but to keep Jihad in their hearts, as Allah will one day destroy all unbelievers!

Can you give me a reference to those verses? Thanks.

 

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Taqiya is the practice of dissimulation within mostly in Shia Islam although Sunnis (Muda'rat) can also under certain situations. 

Kitman, Tawriya, Muruna are also other terms used for justified lying around anyone who isn't Muslim.

These are touched on in the Quran but are mostly all taught in the Hadith i.e. the sayings of Muhammad which Islamic jurisprudence is built upon.

And also, Christians do not want to lie to and murder Muslims and send them to hell like the other way around. This is not considered a good thing to do to "infidels" like it is in Islam.

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5 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Qur'an Sanctifies Lying: "We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them."

From the research I have done this does not appear in the Qur'an. It appears in Ibn Kathir's writings. He lived in the 14th century. Ibn Kathir was an influetncial  historian. So, if my research is correct it is an error to attribute this verse to the Qur'an. 

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3 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

From the research I have done this does not appear in the Qur'an. It appears in Ibn Kathir's writings. He lived in the 14th century. Ibn Kathir was an influetncial  historian. So, if my research is correct it is an error to attribute this verse to the Qur'an. 

You are correct, but believe its in the Hadith, as Muslims see the Koran and hadith as equally valid to them!

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Posted (edited)

All the replies on what is or is not in the Qur'an really have little or nothing to do with the original post. 

The Emirates are much more liberal in their Muslim theology than, say Saudi Arabia. This is easily seen from their lack of restrictions on foreigners, especially woman. In my humble opinion the driving force behind much of what they do, just like here, is money. We cannot lump all Muslims under one test, just as we cannot do the same with all Christians. 

 

Edited by Bouncing Bill
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On 8/2/2020 at 6:15 AM, Bouncing Bill said:

All the replies on what is or is not in the Qur'an really have little or nothing to do with the original post. 

The Emirates are much more liberal in their Muslim theology than, say Saudi Arabia. This is easily seen from their lack of restrictions on foreigners, especially woman. In my humble opinion the driving force behind much of what they do, just like here, is money. We cannot lump all Muslims under one test, just as we cannot do the same with all Christians. 

 

The Islam practiced today in Saudi Arabia is true Islam, as they follow what Allah and Muhhamed taught the most!

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17 hours ago, DaChaser said:

The Islam practiced today in Saudi Arabia is true Islam, as they follow what Allah and Muhhamed taught the most!

I am not sure that is true. The Shia wold certainly disagree. They follow the teaching of the Wahhabi school of theology. Just like Christianity there are various school of theology. Others would say they are the ones that most follow the teachings of Mohammed. The Wahhabi school of theology began with Muslim scholar, Muhammad bin Abd al. Wahhab. He, a Sunni, lived in the 17th century. He and his theology are very puritanical and anyone who does not believe as they do are their enemy. I do not believe Mohammed taught this. He called Christian, Jews and Muslims 'People of the Book'. The Quran calls Jews "people of the book' 31 times. 

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4 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I am not sure that is true. The Shia wold certainly disagree. They follow the teaching of the Wahhabi school of theology. Just like Christianity there are various school of theology. Others would say they are the ones that most follow the teachings of Mohammed. The Wahhabi school of theology began with Muslim scholar, Muhammad bin Abd al. Wahhab. He, a Sunni, lived in the 17th century. He and his theology are very puritanical and anyone who does not believe as they do are their enemy. I do not believe Mohammed taught this. He called Christian, Jews and Muslims 'People of the Book'. The Quran calls Jews "people of the book' 31 times. 

Allah told Muhhammed that he was to spread the truth of Islam by the sword to all, and that unbelievers were to submit or be killed off, while Christians and Jews could pay taxes and live, but be second class under Islam!

Allah not the God of the Bible, nor was Muhhammed a true prophet!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DaChaser said:

Allah told Muhhammed that he was to spread the truth of Islam by the sword to all, and that unbelievers were to submit or be killed off, while Christians and Jews could pay taxes and live, but be second class under Islam!

Allah not the God of the Bible, nor was Muhhammed a true prophet!

And Mohammed told his followers to treat all people of the book well. May be a contradiction.

Oh, and they accept Jesus as a prophet. The trace themselves back to Abraham and Ishamel. Now I've heard people say  that Allah is not the god of the Bible. However, that is not necessarily true. Allah in Arabic means God. There was a Baptist pastor at the seminary in Prague one year from Nigeria. He was a master teacher. He could take a complex subject and teach it in a simple way that made it understandable. I often heard him pray in his Nigerian language and in his language. He would use the word Allah as the Nigerian word for God. That was a revelation to me. I asked him about it and he confirmed that in his native language the word for God is Allah. So, it is not restricted to Islam. So, if the Qua'an was translated into English where it says Allah the translation would be God. 

I completely agree that Mohammed was not a true prophet. I agree their understanding of Christ, though they consider him the 2nd greatest prophet, is not correct. I also know that not all Muslims are radical, fundamentalists bent on destroying all who do not agree with them. Just like some Christians, those radicals have given a black eye to all.

image.png.919748f662da1cbb404ef63d87128877.png

This is an excellent book on the three faiths, the 'people of the book.'

Edited by Bouncing Bill
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Bill, I think defending Islam is not a good thing, or even appropriate for this forum. Islam is and always has been a murderous false religion. Their history proves this is true and it is true today also. It is a favorite ruse for those that try to defend Islam to always try to put forth the idea that not all Muslims are radical; I and many other people, both Christian and non-Christian simply do not believe that propaganda. Well I remember seeing the gleeful spectacle of thousands cheering in the streets when the Twin Towers came down, that is the real Islam.

For you to try to compare Christians to murderous Islam by saying Christians have done these atrocities too is not only untrue, it is wrong.

So, in closing, if you would like to continue with your original post topic, please do so, but without zeroing in on Islam and then defending it to Baptists on this board.

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20 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

And Mohammed told his followers to treat all people of the book well. May be a contradiction.

Oh, and they accept Jesus as a prophet. The trace themselves back to Abraham and Ishamel. Now I've heard people say  that Allah is not the god of the Bible. However, that is not necessarily true. Allah in Arabic means God. There was a Baptist pastor at the seminary in Prague one year from Nigeria. He was a master teacher. He could take a complex subject and teach it in a simple way that made it understandable. I often heard him pray in his Nigerian language and in his language. He would use the word Allah as the Nigerian word for God. That was a revelation to me. I asked him about it and he confirmed that in his native language the word for God is Allah. So, it is not restricted to Islam. So, if the Qua'an was translated into English where it says Allah the translation would be God. 

I completely agree that Mohammed was not a true prophet. I agree their understanding of Christ, though they consider him the 2nd greatest prophet, is not correct. I also know that not all Muslims are radical, fundamentalists bent on destroying all who do not agree with them. Just like some Christians, those radicals have given a black eye to all.

image.png.919748f662da1cbb404ef63d87128877.png

This is an excellent book on the three faiths, the 'people of the book.'

Those such as Isis though are the closest to what their prophet Muhhamed taught, as Islam is commissioned by Allah to take over the world, and that is to be done by extreme force of need be!

4 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bill, I think defending Islam is not a good thing, or even appropriate for this forum. Islam is and always has been a murderous false religion. Their history proves this is true and it is true today also. It is a favorite ruse for those that try to defend Islam to always try to put forth the idea that not all Muslims are radical; I and many other people, both Christian and non-Christian simply do not believe that propaganda. Well I remember seeing the gleeful spectacle of thousands cheering in the streets when the Twin Towers came down, that is the real Islam.

For you to try to compare Christians to murderous Islam by saying Christians have done these atrocities too is not only untrue, it is wrong.

So, in closing, if you would like to continue with your original post topic, please do so, but without zeroing in on Islam and then defending it to Baptists on this board.

Islam is a Satanic counterfeit of the the messiah and real Gospel, as the angel that appeared to Muhhammed and gave to him those revelations was no doubt same one that appeared to adam and Eve and to others such as Joseph Smith!

20 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

And Mohammed told his followers to treat all people of the book well. May be a contradiction.

Oh, and they accept Jesus as a prophet. The trace themselves back to Abraham and Ishamel. Now I've heard people say  that Allah is not the god of the Bible. However, that is not necessarily true. Allah in Arabic means God. There was a Baptist pastor at the seminary in Prague one year from Nigeria. He was a master teacher. He could take a complex subject and teach it in a simple way that made it understandable. I often heard him pray in his Nigerian language and in his language. He would use the word Allah as the Nigerian word for God. That was a revelation to me. I asked him about it and he confirmed that in his native language the word for God is Allah. So, it is not restricted to Islam. So, if the Qua'an was translated into English where it says Allah the translation would be God. 

I completely agree that Mohammed was not a true prophet. I agree their understanding of Christ, though they consider him the 2nd greatest prophet, is not correct. I also know that not all Muslims are radical, fundamentalists bent on destroying all who do not agree with them. Just like some Christians, those radicals have given a black eye to all.

image.png.919748f662da1cbb404ef63d87128877.png

This is an excellent book on the three faiths, the 'people of the book.'

Islam does not worship Yahweh, but a satanic counterfeit!

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Those such as Isis though are the closest to what their prophet Muhhamed taught, as Islam is commissioned by Allah to take over the world, and that is to be done by extreme force of need be!

Islam is a Satanic counterfeit of the the messiah and real Gospel, as the angel that appeared to Muhhammed and gave to him those revelations was no doubt same one that appeared to adam and Eve and to others such as Joseph Smith!

Islam does not worship Yahweh, but a satanic counterfeit!

I do not feel that I am defending Islam, but I do think there is a lot of misinformation being given. I have read too much history, listened to too many  lectures, both religious and secular, as well as becoming friends with Arab-Christians from the Mid-East, to buy into the popular beliefs of our day. My personal belief is that if the British and French had followed up on their promises to the Arabs during World War I we would have a much more peaceful world. But, they reigned on those promises and that led to the founding of radical groups, such as the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt that began in the 1920's. Since that time no Arab government has trusted the promises of any Western national government. World War I never really ended. The fighting ended, but the decisions made after the war led to Hitler, the Communist Soviet Union, and radical Muslim groups. 

The best witness we have for Christ is love not distrust and hate. A good example of this was the response of the International Baptist Theological Seminary when during a conflict many people were left homeless. The seminary took in homeless women and children, many who were Muslim. They were treated well and reported their treatment to the mosque leadership. The leaders of the mosque came to them and said, tell us why you took the women in and treated them well. We have never seen Christians do this and we would not take Christians in. This opened a continuing peaceful dialogue between the two groups. If we are ever to influence Muslims to come to Christ we will have to do it through love, not hate. 

I do not believe ISIS is close to what Mohammed taught any more than the IRA in Ireland was close to what Jesus taught. Both would defend themselves by saying they were close to the the teachings of their religion. It all boils down to a person or groups interpretation of their scriptures. I believe there are a fair number of groups who call themselves Christian, but IMHO, they are simply Christian in name only and there are such groups who claim millions of members. I won't go into what I think these people are as it would open up too many 'rabbit tracks' that people would start down but that lead nowhere.

I have no problem with you description of the false prophets.

 

Edited by Bouncing Bill
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7 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I do not feel that I am defending Islam, but I do think there is a lot of misinformation being given. I have read too much history, listened to too many  lectures, both religious and secular, as well as becoming friends with Arab-Christians from the Mid-East, to buy into the popular beliefs of our day. My personal belief is that if the British and French had followed up on their promises to the Arabs during World War I we would have a much more peaceful world. But, they reigned on those promises and that led to the founding of radical groups, such as the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt that began in the 1920's. Since that time no Arab government has trusted the promises of any Western national government. World War I never really ended. The fighting ended, but the decisions made after the war led to Hitler, the Communist Soviet Union, and radical Muslim groups. 

The best witness we have for Christ is love not distrust and hate. A good example of this was the response of the International Baptist Theological Seminary when during a conflict many people were left homeless. The seminary took in homeless women and children, many who were Muslim. They were treated well and reported their treatment to the mosque leadership. The leaders of the mosque came to them and said, tell us why you took the women in and treated them well. We have never seen Christians do this and we would not take Christians in. This opened a continuing peaceful dialogue between the two groups. If we are ever to influence Muslims to come to Christ we will have to do it through love, not hate. 

I do not believe ISIS is close to what Mohammed taught any more than the IRA in Ireland was close to what Jesus taught. Both would defend themselves by saying they were close to the the teachings of their religion. It all boils down to a person or groups interpretation of their scriptures. I believe there are a fair number of groups who call themselves Christian, but IMHO, they are simply Christian in name only and there are such groups who claim millions of members. I won't go into what I think these people are as it would open up too many 'rabbit tracks' that people would start down but that lead nowhere.

I have no problem with you description of the false prophets.

 

The prophet Muhhammed gave forth to the Muslims the Jihad, as they do practice the law of Abrogation, which means that all of the sayings and teachings from his later years after the exile take precedence over the earlier sayings and teachings, so yes, ISIS is now practicing what the prophet of Islam told them that Allah commands them to be doing!

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36 minutes ago, DaChaser said:

The prophet Muhhammed gave forth to the Muslims the Jihad, as they do practice the law of Abrogation, which means that all of the sayings and teachings from his later years after the exile take precedence over the earlier sayings and teachings, so yes, ISIS is now practicing what the prophet of Islam told them that Allah commands them to be doing!

I forgot to tell you about a Jordanian Muslim lady I met. She had just finished a masters degree in Management of Conflict Resolution at the Eastern Mennonite University in Harrisonburg, VA. She said that the English Qur'an that is distributed in the West is a Saudi translation. She had never seen one before coming to the USA. She said, "I was horrified when I read it. It is a very bad translation and I can see why people here hate us. It puts words in the Profits mouth that are not in the Arabic version. If I thought the followers of the Profit were believers as shown in the English translation, I would hate them also." She was returning to Jordan to work with a Muslim agency trying to promote peace between Israel and Jordan.

It is a shame we are limited by language and cannot read the original. Just like, at least for me, it is not good that I do not understand Greek or Hebrew. I have to depend on translations and I know that meaning is lost in any translation. There are concepts in one language that are spoken with one word but that cannot be translated into another language with one word. Meaning is lost. The three Greek words in the Bible, Eros, Agape, and Philia, when translated into English must be written as "love." But much is lost as those three loves are different. The prime example of this is when Christ asked Peter three times if he [Peter] loved him. In English it is always one word, 'love'. But in Greek this is not true. The first two times Christ uses the word, Agape and Peter replies Philia. Finally, the third time Christ changes the word and asks if he [Peter] Philias him. Big difference and Peter never uses the deeper, most pure word agape.

By the way, do you agree with me that the only way to win Muslims to Christ is through love?

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Posted (edited)

Interesting video.  I did watch it all the way through.

To answer the topic in the thread title: Yes, I do think religions can exist side-by-side.  After all, Christianity existed alongside other religions from its start, although it suffered persecution pretty much from the start, too.

One question I would have is if the other religions would let Christianity exist alongside them.  I realize that is the premise of the video.  But, the unknown is when it comes to evangelism.  That is part of our faith, too...not just praying in our churches, which is what the video emphasizes.  

That is where the rubber hits the road and is a point not addressed in the video.  What happens if the Christians (or other religions) try to lead others to their faith?  Will they still be tolerated?

I’m not trying to insinuate one way or the other, but the question entered my mind as I watched the video.

Edited by NotAshamed
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Bill, my previous post to you about zeroing in on Islam and defending it on our board was not a suggestion, it was a request from a moderator that you have now chosen to disregard with your last two posts. Understand that I am not the only one that dislikes what you posted, I have had complaints from other board members also.

If your posts that completely disregarded my request were accidents I could overlook them, but they were no accidents, they were intentional. For this cause I a awarding you two penaty points, please note that our board rules state that three penalty point is sufficient to ban a member. Please take this to heart, I do not like banning anyone.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bill, my previous post to you about zeroing in on Islam and defending it on our board was not a suggestion, it was a request from a moderator that you have now chosen to disregard with your last two posts. Understand that I am not the only one that dislikes what you posted, I have had complaints from other board members also.

If your posts that completely disregarded my request were accidents I could overlook them, but they were no accidents, they were intentional. For this cause I a awarding you two penaty points, please note that our board rules state that three penalty point is sufficient to ban a member. Please take this to heart, I do not like banning anyone.

I guess at 80 I am a generation or two or three or four older than most on the Board. Growing up a Baptist I was encouraged to be open in discussions and to defend the right of others to their opinion. We were taught out Baptist heritage when we, as Baptist, were jailed and silenced by others. We were taught this should never happen to anyone again.I am sorry our society has lost the art of discussion and conversation.  This is sad. 

May all on the board be blessed in all they do. 

Adieu.

Image may contain: text that says 'RALPH WALDO EMERSON heart that He He said, "Write it on every day bést day in is rich who owns the day, and no one owns the who allows it be invaded with fret and anxiety. Finish every day and be done with it. You have done what could. Some blunders absurdities, doubt crept in. Forget them you can, tomorrow a new day; begin it and serenely, high to be cumbered with your old nonsense. This new day is too dear, with its hopes and invitations, to waste a yesterdays." moment on'

Edited by Bouncing Bill
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22 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I forgot to tell you about a Jordanian Muslim lady I met. She had just finished a masters degree in Management of Conflict Resolution at the Eastern Mennonite University in Harrisonburg, VA. She said that the English Qur'an that is distributed in the West is a Saudi translation. She had never seen one before coming to the USA. She said, "I was horrified when I read it. It is a very bad translation and I can see why people here hate us. It puts words in the Profits mouth that are not in the Arabic version. If I thought the followers of the Profit were believers as shown in the English translation, I would hate them also." She was returning to Jordan to work with a Muslim agency trying to promote peace between Israel and Jordan.

It is a shame we are limited by language and cannot read the original. Just like, at least for me, it is not good that I do not understand Greek or Hebrew. I have to depend on translations and I know that meaning is lost in any translation. There are concepts in one language that are spoken with one word but that cannot be translated into another language with one word. Meaning is lost. The three Greek words in the Bible, Eros, Agape, and Philia, when translated into English must be written as "love." But much is lost as those three loves are different. The prime example of this is when Christ asked Peter three times if he [Peter] loved him. In English it is always one word, 'love'. But in Greek this is not true. The first two times Christ uses the word, Agape and Peter replies Philia. Finally, the third time Christ changes the word and asks if he [Peter] Philias him. Big difference and Peter never uses the deeper, most pure word agape.

By the way, do you agree with me that the only way to win Muslims to Christ is through love?

there are currently 37 known seperate Arabic editions of the Koran, with thousands of differences between each on of them and the accepted standard version, so even in Arabic still very bad theology!

17 hours ago, NotAshamed said:

Interesting video.  I did watch it all the way through.

To answer the topic in the thread title: Yes, I do think religions can exist side-by-side.  After all, Christianity existed alongside other religions from its start, although it suffered persecution pretty much from the start, too.

One question I would have is if the other religions would let Christianity exist alongside them.  I realize that is the premise of the video.  But, the unknown is when it comes to evangelism.  That is part of our faith, too...not just praying in our churches, which is what the video emphasizes.  

That is where the rubber hits the road and is a point not addressed in the video.  What happens if the Christians (or other religions) try to lead others to their faith?  Will they still be tolerated?

I’m not trying to insinuate one way or the other, but the question entered my mind as I watched the video.

if a christian even has a bible in places such as Saudi Arabia, that is a killable offense AGAINST ISLAM!

14 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bill, my previous post to you about zeroing in on Islam and defending it on our board was not a suggestion, it was a request from a moderator that you have now chosen to disregard with your last two posts. Understand that I am not the only one that dislikes what you posted, I have had complaints from other board members also.

If your posts that completely disregarded my request were accidents I could overlook them, but they were no accidents, they were intentional. For this cause I a awarding you two penaty points, please note that our board rules state that three penalty point is sufficient to ban a member. Please take this to heart, I do not like banning anyone.

I think that many Christians have been duped into believing that Islam is this so called religion of peace, while in truth, it is a satanic counterfeit, with a false Jesus and a false gospel and a false god!

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there are currently 37 known seperate Arabic editions of the Koran, with thousands of differences between each on of them and the accepted standard version, so even in Arabic still very bad theology!”

DaChaser -  I am not sure where you read or seen this, but as someone who has studied Islam for nearly 19 years I am not aware of multiple Qurans. There are different many English Qurans and can be slightly different worded depending on the translator. Too my knowledge I am unaware of any “editions” in the Arabic text. It’s similar to different translations/versions of the Bible where they word things different but mean the same thing.

 

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Despite their claims of only one Quran there are 20 different Arabic versions and seven versions mentioned in the Hadith. This is in Arabic. But apparently, today's Arabic is not quite the same Arabic as Mohammad would have spoken (he was illiterate). Just like today's Greek is not the same as New Testament Greek.

Sadly, as far as English versions of the Bible there's probably over 300 now, that's including paraphrases and ones not in print anymore. I have a list of nearly 250 versions/paraphrases from 1900 to 2000. So I assume at least 50 more have been churned out since then. $$$ From what I've read about American copyright law is there has to be at least 10,000 changes to the English text for it to qualify as a new version of the bible.

No wonder nobody believes the bible anymore. Scholars have made a farce out of it.

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Posted (edited)

It’s my understanding that before the time of Uthman ibn Affan there were versions that were slightly different. We have to remember that back then in Saudi Arabia the Quran  was stored in people’s memories because of its poetic and easily memorized. Even children today learn to memorize the Quran.

If that was the case then I’m sure many people had forgotten or confused certain parts which was causing a lot of confusion about which was authentic. When Uthman became the third caliph he decided to examine and compile all the variations and was able to discern what belonged in the scripture and what did it. So Uthmans Quran is the one we have today. 

Edited by Disciple.Luke
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On 8/8/2020 at 9:58 PM, Disciple.Luke said:

there are currently 37 known seperate Arabic editions of the Koran, with thousands of differences between each on of them and the accepted standard version, so even in Arabic still very bad theology!”

DaChaser -  I am not sure where you read or seen this, but as someone who has studied Islam for nearly 19 years I am not aware of multiple Qurans. There are different many English Qurans and can be slightly different worded depending on the translator. Too my knowledge I am unaware of any “editions” in the Arabic text. It’s similar to different translations/versions of the Bible where they word things different but mean the same thing.

 

There were 30 known different Arabic versions of the Koran, and at present time, 37 Arabic versions available! Not translations, but in Arabic! This refutes the Muslim take of but one Koran!

On 8/9/2020 at 10:02 AM, SureWord said:

Despite their claims of only one Quran there are 20 different Arabic versions and seven versions mentioned in the Hadith. This is in Arabic. But apparently, today's Arabic is not quite the same Arabic as Mohammad would have spoken (he was illiterate). Just like today's Greek is not the same as New Testament Greek.

Sadly, as far as English versions of the Bible there's probably over 300 now, that's including paraphrases and ones not in print anymore. I have a list of nearly 250 versions/paraphrases from 1900 to 2000. So I assume at least 50 more have been churned out since then. $$$ From what I've read about American copyright law is there has to be at least 10,000 changes to the English text for it to qualify as a new version of the bible.

No wonder nobody believes the bible anymore. Scholars have made a farce out of it.

 

18 hours ago, Disciple.Luke said:

It’s my understanding that before the time of Uthman ibn Affan there were versions that were slightly different. We have to remember that back then in Saudi Arabia the Quran  was stored in people’s memories because of its poetic and easily memorized. Even children today learn to memorize the Quran.

If that was the case then I’m sure many people had forgotten or confused certain parts which was causing a lot of confusion about which was authentic. When Uthman became the third caliph he decided to examine and compile all the variations and was able to discern what belonged in the scripture and what did it. So Uthmans Quran is the one we have today. 

Muhhammed never had the Koran at his time, as first one made after he died, and another in 652, NO copies of that available now!

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