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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Salvation Before Christ?

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I have recently heard from many people that "People were saved by looking forward to the cross before and looking back at it after". I have also noticed that the majority of people who have said this were Calvinists. Since the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ was obviously not the focus of Abraham's Faith in Romans 4, how do you construct a view of the Bible without considering the dispensation of the scripture you are reading? In other words, what scripture do people use to defend this view of looking forward to the cross? I understand that the Bible starts speaking of a Messiah to come in Genesis, but I do not think Jesus' disciples understood fully what was going on, and they were with Him. In Luke 24

13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

So how were Abraham, Noah, David or others to know this? 

Does anyone believe that people before Christ were saved by Faith in Christ alone?

Would love some help and clarification here, Thank You! 

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33 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

So how were Abraham, Noah, David or others to know this? 

What does the Creator Almighty Say in His Word about Abraham, Noah, David, or others ?

I think that is what is important,  as He Reveals What He Chooses to Reveal, right ?

34 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Does anyone believe that people before Christ were saved by Faith in Christ alone?

 

Simply,  I think you answered this question  ("does anyone believe...." )  early in the post >

35 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

I have recently heard from many people that "People were saved by looking forward to the cross before and looking back at it after".

 

38 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Would love some help and clarification here, Thank You! 

Clarification about what is written,   

or

clarification about what people believe ?

I think what is written is most simple,

and what people believe varies tremendously all along as long as people have lived no earth ever since the Almighty Creator gave them life.

Perhaps this is over-simplified, but I believe people cannot do anything trusting themselves to save themselves -  the Creator looked from heaven and saw that no one, not one,  was seeking Him or at least not able to heal themselves,   so He took action,  He proceeded as planned before the world was created,   with His Plan in Christ Jesus,  to save souls, as written.

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39 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

People were saved by looking forward to the cross before and looking back at it after".

This is generally true but technically it was not the cross. They Looked forward to the Christ who would one day come and save them. However, they did no know that the cross would be the method until after he rose again.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

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1 minute ago, John Young said:

 

 

This is generally true but technically it was not the cross. They Looked forward to the Christ who would one day come and save them. However, they did no know that the cross would be the method until after he rose again.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Was Abraham justified by his faith in the Christ to come? Or His faith in the Father to fulfill the promises He had given to Abraham, such as being a father of many nations?and did he show his faith by his willingness to offer Isaac in sacrifice? I see the resemblance of God giving His son for sacrifice now, but did Abraham see that is what I am asking. 

10 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

What does the Creator Almighty Say in His Word about Abraham, Noah, David, or others ?

I think that is what is important,  as He Reveals What He Chooses to Reveal, right ?

Simply,  I think you answered this question  ("does anyone believe...." )  early in the post >

 

Clarification about what is written,   

or

clarification about what people believe ?

I think what is written is most simple,

and what people believe varies tremendously all along as long as people have lived no earth ever since the Almighty Creator gave them life.

Perhaps this is over-simplified, but I believe people cannot do anything trusting themselves to save themselves -  the Creator looked from heaven and saw that no one, not one,  was seeking Him or at least not able to heal themselves,   so He took action,  He proceeded as planned before the world was created,   with His Plan in Christ Jesus,  to save souls, as written.

I was asking does anyone “on here” believe that. 

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4 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

I think I was more asking does anyone “on here” believe this. 

I expect one, or a few, or some , or many do believe a variety of things,  with perhaps quite a wide assortment,  perhaps not? .  Whether authorized, or permitted, or not, from recent posts by visitors, 

It appears even that some (at least one) recent visitors even believe people do not have to believe,  that they do not have to repent,   to be saved .  (the error or the false gospel of universalism). 

 

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2 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

I expect one, or a few, or some , or many do believe a variety of things,  with perhaps quite a wide assortment,  perhaps not? .  Whether authorized, or permitted, or not, from recent posts by visitors, 

It appears even that some (at least one) recent visitors even believe people do not have to believe,  that they do not have to repent,   to be saved .  (the error or the false gospel of universalism). 

 

Do you tell people that people in the Old Testament were saved by having faith in the messiah to come? 

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6 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Do you tell people that people in the Old Testament were saved by having faith in the messiah to come? 

No.

========================================

Does this Scripture below have any meaning related to your other posted questions? >>


Matthew 13:17 King James Version (KJV)

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

Edited by jeff_student_of_Jesus
clarity re "this"
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2 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

No.

========================================

Does this have any meaning related to your other posted questions? >>


Matthew 13:17 King James Version (KJV)

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

What would you tell them? 

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2 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

As Jesus directs and always did Himself and instructed all the disciples to do and say, I tell them whatever the Father, The Almighty Creator, reveals and/or directs me to tell them.

Which in the past has been?  Are you saying you receive extra-biblical revelation from God? 

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6 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Was Abraham justified by his faith in the Christ to come? Or His faith in the Father to fulfill the promises He had given to Abraham, such as being a father of many nations?and did he show his faith by his willingness to offer Isaac in sacrifice? I see the resemblance of God giving His son for sacrifice now, but did Abraham see that is what I am asking. 

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Hebrews 11:17-20 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
 

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4 minutes ago, John Young said:

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Hebrews 11:17-20 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
 

Thank you, I will look over some of the verses you have shared. 

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3 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Which in the past has been?

Always tell the truth.   I raised my sons in the way they should go, to love and to trust God always and to love the truth,   as Scripture Says Clearly ,  and they (and I) were the only ones many people met who would not lie,  even if they suffered loss ....  

Or more important,  as God Says in KJV Scripture - let every word and action be fully in harmony with God's Word -

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Taking-Action/
James 1:5 - If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

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The same can be shown for Moses (Hebrews 11:24-27), and David (Acts 2:30-31, 4:25-28), and many other OT saints, that they trusted in Christ (the coming messiah). Something to note as you read the gospels, the amount of people who were looking for "The Christ" to deliver them BEFORE Jesus died on the cross. They were not looking for the cross or some generic promise that God gave about the nation but rather looking for their savior. The wicked wanted to destroy him, the faithful wanted to submit to him. If you do a word study on "Christ" in the Gospels, before Jesus was sacrificed, you will see that they knew quite a bit on who Christ was and what Christ would to for them who trusted in Him. Most all of which they received from OT scripture. Some examples are:

King Herod, the Chief Priest, and the wise men knew of His promised coming and looked for "the Christ". Matthew 2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

John the Baptist Preached the coming of Christ and that Christ Jesus would be a sacrificial lamb for sin. John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Peter and the disciples knew he was the Christ. Luke 9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

The common people knew of Christ. John 4:42 and said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the worldJohn 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? John 12:34a The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever:

Edited by John Young
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17 hours ago, OlBrotherDC said:

I have recently heard from many people that "People were saved by looking forward to the cross before and looking back at it after". I have also noticed that the majority of people who have said this were Calvinists. Since the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ was obviously not the focus of Abraham's Faith in Romans 4, how do you construct a view of the Bible without considering the dispensation of the scripture you are reading? In other words, what scripture do people use to defend this view of looking forward to the cross? I understand that the Bible starts speaking of a Messiah to come in Genesis, but I do not think Jesus' disciples understood fully what was going on, and they were with Him. In Luke 24

13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

So how were Abraham, Noah, David or others to know this? 

Does anyone believe that people before Christ were saved by Faith in Christ alone?

Would love some help and clarification here, Thank You! 

According to Romans 3:25 those in the past were saved by the blood of Christ (even though at the time they didn't realize it, that was the mystery of the gospel) but their salvation wasn't completed until Christ actually made the way to heaven clear. This is what the mention of the forbearance of God is all about. God put up with their unremitted sins until Christ made the propitiation. God was able to put up with this knowing that his Son would eventually remit their sins once and for all. This is why I believe the sacrifices were necessary not that they in of themselves saved a man but they looked forward to the time of salvation. They were not just ceremonial as some say but part of the way of their eventually salvation. They were kind of a put on hold type of salvation. They in of themselves did not save but temporarily covered sins and if a man didn't perform them he wasn't showing faith in the atonement of God reserved for the future therefore would end up in hell. I know this sounds like a contradiction but it's not if you carefully think it through. Until that time those who performed them in faith, after their death, had to ride it out in "Abraham's Bosom" until the final sacrifice was made by Christ. Then Christ led captivity captive.

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1 minute ago, SureWord said:

According to Romans 3:25 those in the past were saved by the blood of Christ (even though at the time they didn't realize it, that was the mystery of the gospel) but their salvation wasn't completed until Christ actually made the way to heaven clear. This is what the mention of the forbearance of God is all about. God put up with their unremitted sins until Christ made the propitiation. God was able to put up with this knowing that his Son would eventually remit their sins once and for all. This is why I believe the sacrifices were necessary not that they in of themselves saved a man but they looked forward to the time of salvation. They were not just ceremonial as some say but part of the way of their eventually salvation. They were kind of a put on hold type of salvation. They in of themselves did not save but temporarily covered sins and if a man didn't perform them he wasn't showing faith in the atonement of God reserved for the future therefore would end up in hell. I know this sounds like a contradiction but it's not if you carefully think it through. Until that time those who performed them in faith, after their death, had to ride it out in "Abraham's Bosom" until the final sacrifice was made by Christ. Then Christ led captivity captive.

I agree with what you said, that they were sort of put on hold until they heard the Gospel of the Grace of God from Jesus after he was crucified. The dead O.T. Saints could not have went to heaven yet, (John 3:13). Is 1 Peter 4:6 what your talking about? if so the I agree. 
 

The whole point that I was trying get to, was, yes OT saints were saved by faith, but the object of their faith had not been fully revealed to them, since the Gospel of the Grace of God did not come until Paul. And OT saints in some sense had to combine works to show their faith, they had to believe God, but also “do his commandments” more so than we do now, under the dispensation of Grace, where it is strictly faith that saves a man. 
 

I think I am trying to say the same thing you are. I appreciate your help! 
 

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A thorough understanding of the book of Romans, especially Romans chapter 3-8, clearly shows that we are saved through by grace through faith, in any dispensation, Jew or Gentile, whether we fully understand the work of salvation or not, through the imputed justification by Christ, without any iota of works involved. Did not Paul say, in conclusion to the matter of salvation, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28

If there is any work, of any kind, involved in the salvation of a soul, whether before the Law, during the Law, during the millennium,Jew of Gentile, then, according to the apostle Paul, salvation is a "debt" and not by "grace." "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Romans 4:4

As with the apostle Paul, as far as I am concerned, this concludes the matter with me also.

 

8 hours ago, OlBrotherDC said:

I agree with what you said, that they were sort of put on hold until they heard the Gospel of the Grace of God from Jesus after he was crucified. The dead O.T. Saints could not have went to heaven yet, (John 3:13). Is 1 Peter 4:6 what your talking about? if so the I agree. 
 

 

As far as the salvation of the soul is concerned, 1 Peter 4:6, has no bearing on the subject.

Edited by Alan
grammar through to thorough
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Was Abraham an Old Testament believer?
Was Abraham justified by and  before the Lord God through faith?
By definition, can justification occur apart from and before the forgiveness/remission of sins?
By definition, did Abraham's justification include the imputation of the Lord's righteousness to his account?

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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1 hour ago, Alan said:

A through understanding of the book of Romans, especially Romans chapter 3-8, clearly shows that we are saved through by grace through faith, in any dispensation, Jew or Gentile, whether we fully understand the work of salvation or not, through the imputed justification by Christ, without any iota of works involved. Did not Paul say, in conclusion to the matter of salvation, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28

If there is any work, of any kind, involved in the salvation of a soul, whether before the Law, during the Law, during the millennium,Jew of Gentile, then, according to the apostle Paul, salvation is a "debt" and not by "grace." "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Romans 4:4

As with the apostle Paul, as far as I am concerned, this concludes the matter with me also.

 

As far as the salvation of the soul is concerned, 1 Peter 4:6, has no bearing on the subject.

You'd be hard pressed to find the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection being preached or believed in the OT. The twelve disciples didn't even understand Jesus when he told them about it. We see it now because the veil has been pulled back but back in those days it was hid from them though many of the prophets sought to understand it.

3 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Was Abraham an Old Testament believer?
Was Abraham justified before the Lord God through faith?
By definition, can justification occur apart from and before the forgiveness/remission of sins?
By definition, did Abraham's justification include the imputation of the Lord's righteousness to his account?

Abraham was before the law of Moses. That's why Paul used him as an example.

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