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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Counsel Needed About KJV Compromise

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1 hour ago, robycop3 said:

  However, if anyone wishes to discuss KJVO with me,  (and others) you may find me on the "Baptist Board" site, where I post as "robycop3".

You may rest assured that I will not be going to that board seeking to discuss or find you at any time soon, or ever in fact.

 

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10 hours ago, WellWithMySoul said:

To the others discussing the differences in versions, it's all good - but what I really need is counsel on - is how to have godly integrity/attitude in my heart first, in my mind/thoughts, and in my words/behaviours concerning a response to our pastor. 

WWMS,

I sincerely apologize for my part in this; please forgive me.

I pray that the Lord will give you wisdom and understanding in how to handle your current situation.

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Thank you, NN, it was kind of you to apologize and to be considerate - even though I was not at all offended.  I certainly understand the passion behind standing on God's Word.  I am always aware of John 1:1!  Truly, if we were physically face to face with the Saviour would we have the audacity to basically "correct" His words to make them easier to understand?  Perhaps that's not the best of illustrations because of the translation to English, but to me concerning the KJV, it is.  Aren't people just trying to "bring God down to their level of understanding" rather than to trust and to be continually growing up in Him?  Anyway, yes, I could go on and on for I too have a passion about fearing Him and desiring to be transformed more and more to His likeness, His way, His timing, and by His workmanship.  My KJV has never failed me, and when I don't understand verses or passages, I ask Him to teach me what He wants me to understand and know; "...Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, sayeth the LORD of hosts" (Zech. 4:6b). 

We are still praying about our response to our pastor first seeking meekness (II Tim. 2:25).   I know that the Lord will bring right thoughts and all utterance according to His purpose as we seek His will and way and avail ourselves to Him.  Even as I sit here thinking of all of this, I'm just so saddened.  Perhaps if the Lord leads any to post some scripture about how to handle compromise with a right heart, it would truly be helpful.

Thank you again, NN.

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On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 9:00 AM, WellWithMySoul said:

  That particular verse was James 1:4 - "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." The NKJV uses the word "lacking" (or a form of that) instead of "wanting".  To me, that was a significant difference.  "Lacking nothing" to me, means there could be more - while "wanting nothing" means that it's "perfect and entire"!

 

"Want" or "wanting" in the 1600's was often used with the meaning "lack" or "lacking" so there would not be a significant difference.

At James 1:4, D. A. Waite's Defined King James Bible gives the following definition for "wanting:"  "lacking, needing."

At the entry for "want," David W. Daniels in his booklet The King James Bible Companion gave this definition:  "lack, be deficient" (Deut. 28:48).

At its entry for "want," David Cloud in his Concise King James Bible Dictionary gave this definition:  "to lack" (John 2:3) (p. 95). 

In his book entitled Archaic Words and the Authorized Version, Laurence M. Vance wrote:  "The word want in the AV is never used in the sense of desire but rather with the older meaning of lacking or deficient in" (p. 370).

Edited by Tyndale
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I have read the KJV over 50 years.   I do not think that my love for and reading of the KJV would entitle me as a believer to approve the making of any unrighteous judgments concerning the NKJV.

John 7:24

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

According to superficial appearance, the NKJV may be said to be missing the name "God" 51 times where it is found in the KJV.

Do those who seem to judge according to the appearance check more carefully to see whether the name "God" is found in the Hebrew Masoretic text or in the Greek Textus Receptus in all those places?

According to righteous judgment, can the NKJV be said to remove or omit the name "God" 51 times where it is found in the Hebrew Masoretic OT text and Greek Textus Receptus NT text from which the KJV is translated?

At 2 Samuel 20:20, the 1560 Geneva Bible and the 1568 Bishops' Bible have "God forbid" twice while the 1611 KJV has "Far be it" twice.   Would it be righteous judgment to claim that the KJV removes or omits the name of God twice at 2 Samuel 20:20?  I don't think so since the name of "God" is not in the Hebrew Masoretic text for those words "God forbid."  If I apply the same exact measures/standards justly to the NKJV that I would apply to the KJV concerning 2 Samuel 20:20, I cannot justly claim that it removes the name "God" in verses where the name of God is not found in the Hebrew Masoretic text or in the Textus Receptus.  

 

 

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Thank you for sharing your knowledge; I appreciate it.  I have a lot to learn!  Bunches!  I am, though, already fully persuaded concerning the version issues. 

I started this thread, however, seeking some godly and wise counsel concerning a right attitude and that which is pleasing and glorifying to the Lord - concerning heart matters.  Thank you again to those who have made wise suggestions!

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In seeking to determine and prove what is acceptable to the Lord (Eph. 5:10), the characteristics of the wisdom from God above should be considered.

James 3:17

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

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I have a few "tears" in my heart, yet a joyous smile on my face.  First, I received some very godly counsel from my sister in Missouri concerning this matter.  She goes to a little baptist church there that uses the KJV.  Her suggestions were very simple, but also quite wise.  Considering the things shared in this thread along with her thoughts truly gave me a peace.  I have continued to pray about it all, but also truly cast the burden of it to the Lord, and have been waiting upon Him.

(I just wanted to clarify that in the previous post that I made when speaking of James 1:4, I said a couple of times "TO ME..." because that is the way I take it - to me, why change a word that is easy to understand as is, to another word that is supposedly synonymous?    Again, I'm very thankful to be fully persuaded about the KJV.)

Just today, my husband was able to kindly and respectfully address the question to our pastor.  There is no way that I can verbalize our pastor's response, but that is why I started this post as I did.  I have a joyous smile because the Lord answered my prayers, but I am saddened by the pastor's response. 

Perhaps we are "marked and viewed" as "more staunch" about the KJV now, but we will not be contentious or divisive about it.  Is this just the beginning of a "downward slide" (as Ukulelemike referred to it as)?  O how I love the folks in our little church...  I am so glad that the Lord knows my heart.

James 1:5

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by WellWithMySoul
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I would rather know the Word, than just to know about it.  I would rather know the Lord Jesus Christ, than just to know about Him.  I would rather seek knowledge followed by understanding, spiritual discernment, and wisdom...than just to count on Biblical intellect.  I would rather not give precedence to time spent in the Word, but rather focus on a walk of faithfulness with a spirit of meekness in obedience to it.  I would rather shew myself approved unto God, than to put on an air and a show for mankind.  I would rather come to the light and have error exposed and reproved by His loving chastening, than to compromise with sin in the darkness.  I would rather that the Lord's workmanship within me shine outwardly, than to "spit-shine" my appearance.  I would rather follow after charity with the truth, than to sully it with contentiousness and unrighteous anger.  I would rather face my needs head-on looking to Him for provision, than to attempt to compete with Him by looking to my own belly.  I would rather that I feared and loved the Lord my God with all of my heart, soul, mind, and strength keeping Him as the "apple of my eye"...hoping to hear, "Well done thou good and faithful servant"...rather than to ever hear the words or to know that there is anything hindering my personal fellowship with my LORD that He could say, "I have somewhat against thee" (though He is referring to the churches in Revelation).

I would rather to be continually and progressively conforming to His image, transformed by the renewing of my mind, and growing more and more into His likeness as His child.  I would rather be fruitful to His glory as I learn and apply more and more of His ways and thoughts in my life, rather than to become stuck and stagnant and lukewarm. I would rather be peculiar, than to be common.  I would rather measure, examine, and judge myself rightly and honestly by His Holiness, remembering that in and of myself I can do no good thing without Him.

WWMS - O how I need Him....

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Just a heads up, I know "robycop3" aka "steelmaker" from a forum I frequented years ago. Not only does he believe ALL versions of the bible are full of errors he believes the original autographs themselves were not without errors (unless he's changed his position since that time). Ask him yourself if you do not believe me. His ministry is to roam from forum to forum attacking and questioning the KJV.

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Disagreeing with human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning would not be actually the same thing as attacking the KJV.

Perhaps some may jump to a false conclusion based on use of the fallacy of false dilemma that would suggest that if someone does not believe a KJV-only view that they have to believe that all versions of the Bible are full of errors. 

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52 minutes ago, Tyndale said:

Disagreeing with human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning would not be actually the same thing as attacking the KJV.

Perhaps some may jump to a false conclusion based on use of the fallacy of false dilemma that would suggest that if someone does not believe a KJV-only view that they have to believe that all versions of the Bible are full of errors. 

Not sure if you are responding to my post but my intent was to point out "robycop3" (also known as "steelmaker on other forums) doesn't even believe the original manuscripts were without error (at least a few years back he didn't) and even admitted so to me when I pressured him for an answer. So any discussion with him about preservation, infallibility, inerrancy, translations, etc etc are a waste of time since he doesn't even believe the inspired originals (I'm referring to the original originals not the Textus Receptus and Masoretic like some erroneously like to call the originals) were without errors.

Do you at least believe the originals autographs written by the prophets and apostles are without errors?

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Good morning to the last two posters!  Indeed, it is a glorious morning in my neck of the woods!  If you would please take your discussion concerning versions to another thread with that subject, it would be greatly appreciated.  As I stated in the OP and then another time, this thread was started with the sincere desire asking for wise counsel about heart matters.  Again I will say that I am fully persuaded about the versions issues...it' s not knowledge that I'm seeking, but rather wisdom (James 1:5) and counsel ("...multitude of counsellors...).  Please see my last post.   May you both have a blessed day; "praying without ceasing", praising Him all the day long, and seeking to bring glory to Him in all things.

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1 hour ago, WellWithMySoul said:

Good morning to the last two posters!  Indeed, it is a glorious morning in my neck of the woods!  If you would please take your discussion concerning versions to another thread with that subject, it would be greatly appreciated.  As I stated in the OP and then another time, this thread was started with the sincere desire asking for wise counsel about heart matters.  Again I will say that I am fully persuaded about the versions issues...it' s not knowledge that I'm seeking, but rather wisdom (James 1:5) and counsel ("...multitude of counsellors...).  Please see my last post.   May you both have a blessed day; "praying without ceasing", praising Him all the day long, and seeking to bring glory to Him in all things.

OK, didn't mean to derail the thread.

I will give you some advice since I was in a similar situation as yours.

Let your pastor know your position on the issue of the KJV but only if the situation demands it. I attended a church where the pastor used the NKJV and routinely corrected the KJV with the "original Greek" even though he never went to college nor could he even read Greek or Hebrew. I just put up with it and followed along his sermons with my KJV. He never really got off into any heresies and some if his messages were still edifying. He was a good man. He was just suckered into using the NKJV thinking it was just an updated KJV.

Unfortunately, he eventually pulled me aside with one of the deacons to interview me about being a Sunday School teacher. I always wanted to be one and I could have just kept silent so as to get the position but I felt I needed to be clear about my position on the KJV. Well, I could see the expression on his face change to almost horror or maybe disbelief when I told him. I knew then I wasn't going to be a Sunday School teacher or be called on about anything else in that church.

Incidentally, during the interview the deacon came out and agreed with me which shocked the pastor even more. Within a few months the pastor tried voting out that godly, aged saint and replace him with a man only saved a few months before but who owned a business involved in building our church a new building. The church voted against the pastor. The pastor eventual got his church built than resigned.

One good thing that came out of the whole debacle is I became friends with an missionary/evangelist who attended that church, who through years of friendship and working on him about the KJV, finally started his own King James bible believing church in Upstate New York.

So my advice is stay put unless he becomes heretical and no longer edifying , be patient, don't force the issue unless it comes to you but when it does state your position and let the chips fall where they may. Something good will eventually come of this.

Edited by SureWord
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19 hours ago, SureWord said:

OK, didn't mean to derail the thread.

I will give you some advice since I was in a similar situation as yours.

Let your pastor know your position on the issue of the KJV but only if the situation demands it. I attended a church where the pastor used the NKJV and routinely corrected the KJV with the "original Greek" even though he never went to college nor could he even read Greek or Hebrew. I just put up with it and followed along his sermons with my KJV. He never really got off into any heresies and some if his messages were still edifying. He was a good man. He was just suckered into using the NKJV thinking it was just an updated KJV.

Unfortunately, he eventually pulled me aside with one of the deacons to interview me about being a Sunday School teacher. I always wanted to be one and I could have just kept silent so as to get the position but I felt I needed to be clear about my position on the KJV. Well, I could see the expression on his face change to almost horror or maybe disbelief when I told him. I knew then I wasn't going to be a Sunday School teacher or be called on about anything else in that church.

Incidentally, during the interview the deacon came out and agreed with me which shocked the pastor even more. Within a few months the pastor tried voting out that godly, aged saint and replace him with a man only saved a few months before but who owned a business involved in building our church a new building. The church voted against the pastor. The pastor eventual got his church built than resigned.

One good thing that came out of the whole debacle is I became friends with an missionary/evangelist who attended that church, who through years of friendship and working on him about the KJV, finally started his own King James bible believing church in Upstate New York.

So my advice is stay put unless he becomes heretical and no longer edifying , be patient, don't force the issue unless it comes to you but when it does state your position and let the chips fall where they may. Something good will eventually come of this.

If someone feels so strongly about the KJVO position, then would see them obligated to either keep quit, or else go elsewhere, as the pastor and Elders have authority to teach from whatever translation they deem right!

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1 hour ago, DaChaser said:

If someone feels so strongly about the KJVO position, then would see them obligated to either keep quit, or else go elsewhere, as the pastor and Elders have authority to teach from whatever translation they deem right!

Wow, just wow. This reminds me how liberals say we need to keep our religion to ourselves inside our house.

Now, I'm not saying to cause a ruckus in the church about it but if the pastor brings up the issue to me I have every right before God to let him know where I stand. 

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Sigh!  Please consider the title of this thread, and ALL of my posts!  Godly counsel for the heart is what I've been seeking; WISE counsel!  Thank you to SureWord for your last post...I appreciate that you shared your own personal experience.  It is time now for this thread to close.  In a previous post I expressed that this matter has since been dealt with.  One last request that I have is Proverbs 18:13 - "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him".  

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