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Will a person who loves sin trust in Jesus for salvation?


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WILL A PERSON WHO LOVES SIN AND DOES NOT WANT DELIVERANCE TRUST IN JESUS AS SAVIOR? 

All men are sinners by nature (Romans 3:23).  Sinners love darkness, that is sin and sinful practices.  Should a sinner be convicted of his sins, feel sorry about it and change his mind and heart concerning sin in order to trust in Jesus as Savior, or is it okay to continue loving sin and desiring it at the same time trusting in Jesus as Savior?  

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A lost man cannot deal with his sin until after he has submitted to God and is born again. Otherwise he is only a self righteous lost man, trusting in his own measure of reform or regret. It is only after we are born again that we become dead to sin and alive to Christ and HIS righteousness. Dealing with sin in the life of a believer is a matter of sanctification, not salvation (study John 3 and  Romans 6-8). A lost man needs only to repent of anything keeping him from believing and trusting in Jesus payment for his sin. Afterwards God will properly deal with their sins.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

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35 minutes ago, John Young said:

A lost man cannot deal with his sin until after he has submitted to God and is born again. Otherwise he is only a self righteous lost man, trusting in his own measure of reform or regret. It is only after we are born again that we become dead to sin and alive to Christ and HIS righteousness. Dealing with sin in the life of a believer is a matter of sanctification, not salvation (study John 3 and  Romans 6-8). A lost man needs only to repent of anything keeping him from believing and trusting in Jesus payment for his sin. Afterwards God will properly deal with their sins.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Yes I agree that he cannot deal with his sins, since it is only the Lord who will cleanse and forgive him of all his sins after he repent and believe.  My question, when does the Holy Spirit convict a man of sin, is it before salvation or after salvation?   

My next question is, If the Holy Spirit convicts the sinner before salvation, is it not possible through the grace of God that he would realize his sins, and change his mind from loving sin to hatred of it, and desire for Salvation and so trust in Jesus as Savior?  

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Another question I would like to ask is based on your statement, "A lost man needs only to repent of anything keeping him from believing and trusting in Jesus payment for his sin. Afterwards God will properly deal with their sins.".  If a man does not believe in God and he believes it is illegal drugs that could save him from problem, should he repent of that sinful belief and practice and trust in Jesus for salvation?  

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First you need to understand that the free gift of God is not obtained by "repentance of sin" but rather by faith in Christ alone. 

Second, you need to understand the goal of salvation is not reform of man into a good person but rather to bring them back to God. 

It makes no difference their feelings about sin BEFORE salvation. Some have a great deal of sorrow others a simple acknowledgement. What matters is that they turn to God through faith in Christ. The matter of sin can also be dealt with in the life of a lost man through the law and conviction of what God has naturally placed in their heart. A lost man can be sorry for sin and reform his life, even appear to be a believer by the deeds he does (like Judas Iscariot) others can even be convicted that their sin is evil. However, this "repentance of sin" does not in any way save them. The birth must come first.

Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Romans 9:31-33 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

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According to your statement:  

Quote

A lost man needs only to repent of anything keeping him from believing and trusting in Jesus payment for his sin. Afterwards God will properly deal with their sins."

A lost man needs only to repent of anything keeping him from believing and trusting in Jesus payment for his sin.  My question is if the lost man has the belief that drugs is what saves him from problem and he does not believe in any kind of salvation, should he repent of that sin?  Should a man repent of the false belief of salvation?  Is the false belief sin? 

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11 minutes ago, John Young said:

I never denied it. It is my view, and the view of all Christians that all people should depart from sin.

So If you believe that unbelief is sin, and you define repentance as a change of mind from unbelief (sin) to belief in Christ, then you do believe in repentance of sin for the unsaved to be saved, of course followed by faith??? 

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Is pride and rebellion sin or not? 

 

The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
(Psalms 10:4 KJV)
 

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
(Mark 7:21-22 KJV)
 

Do you deny that pride and rebellion is sin?  

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Yes they are sins. This has not been denied. Your problem is you are trying to make general and generic what God has placed in specifics. Salvation is not obtained by a general remorse for sin but rather the specific sins of pride and rebellion against God. When anyone repents by humbly submitting to God by faith in Christ, then they will be saved. Their level of remorse or regret or turning from sin, in the general, does not matter. If they have a sense of remorse then that is great but to claim they need anything more than humble submission before coming to Christ is to add to the gospel.

John 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Numbers 21:8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live

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Well it is not my position that there is a required degree of remorse for repentance due to people do vary in their emotion and experiences of wicked deeds, so I do not take the position that there must be crying or remorse as my point is that some people are emotional and others are not.   There is however a feeling of guilt as a result of the conviction of the Holy Spirit and admission that sin is sin, and that God is a holy God who hates sin, and the sinner being sorry for displeasing God and feeling undeserving of his own righteousness to save himself, so when he hears the gospel he is trust in Jesus as the only way to be saved.   However there is no need to categorize repentance and repentance of sin as work and that they are different as there is no work involved in repentance but that work is a result of repentance.  Repentance is a decision and it is a change of mind.   Rebellion, doing your own way instead of God's way is sin.  Sin is transgression of the law.   1 John 5: 17 states all unrighteousness is sin.. Sin is rebellion to God, or transgressing God's law, and when you violates one you violates all, James 2:10.  When the Bible speaks of repentance, it is a change of mind and heart toward God concerning sin.  If repentance has the same meaning as faith, then there is no need for Paul to distinctively state, Repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus, Acts 20: 21.  When the Bible speaks of faith and believing it does not mean without repentance.  In John 5: 24 hearing was mentioned yet in other verses such as John 6: 47 hearing was not mentioned.   So when you see verses without hearing and without repentance it does not mean that faith is without repentance for a sinner who loves sin will not trust in Jesus until he is convicted by the Spirit of sin, becomes sorry of his sin, and changes his mind and heart about it.   If there is a change of mind from loving sin to hating it to loving God, why can't you call it repentance since it is a change of mind and not a work??? 

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When you try to categorize repentance for the unsaved and repentance of sin for the saved that will contradict with Isaiah 55: 7 , and Ezek 33:11 where the wicked are commanded to repent of their sins, transgression or way, or evil ways.. all of that are sins..  Anderson said that repentance of sin is for the believer and repentance is for the unbeliever but the Bible says that the wicked are commanded to repent of their sins (transgressions, abominations, way or evil ways) all of that are sins.  Anderson just do not know well the Bible and he does not know that there are verses that speaks of repentance of sins, or evil ways .. 

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No Man is able to deal with his sin in a way to cleanse himself.  Only God can cleanse us of sin, to forgive our sins.  It is true that man cannot repent and believe and come to God by self effort and apart from grace, but does it mean that man under grace, the conviction of the Spirit and influence of the word cannot repent and believe?  No!  God commanded all men everywhere to repent and repentance precedes faith.  God commanded sinners, the wicked to repent of their sins, Isaiah 55:7, Ezek 33:11; 18:30-31; 13:22; 14:6; Rev.2:21-22; 9: 20-21.  It is only due to the ignorance of Steven Anderson and Roger Jimenez who teach that there is no repentance of sin in the bible. They misinterpreted Jonah 3:10 as repentance of sin as a work and twisted other scriptures that Isaiah 55:7, Ezek 33:11, Luke 13:3 that these verses are speaking of physical destruction, when God is commanding the wicked to repent of sins to receive forgiveness, salvation.  To believe without acknowledging himself as sinner needing God's mercy and salvation is to boast of himself of his own righteousness.  Jesus did not come for self righteous people but for sinners Mark 2:17.

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On 4/24/2020 at 12:39 AM, mbkjpreacher said:

WILL A PERSON WHO LOVES SIN AND DOES NOT WANT DELIVERANCE TRUST IN JESUS AS SAVIOR? 

All men are sinners by nature (Romans 3:23).  Sinners love darkness, that is sin and sinful practices.  Should a sinner be convicted of his sins, feel sorry about it and change his mind and heart concerning sin in order to trust in Jesus as Savior, or is it okay to continue loving sin and desiring it at the same time trusting in Jesus as Savior?  

The saved have a new nature, and have the Holy Spirit indwelling them, so they  should never be "OK" with just going on sinning!

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Mark 1:15 (KJV) And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke 13:3 (KJV) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19 (KJV) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Mark 6:12 (KJV) And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Repentance and Belief; always in that order Scripturally.

John the Baptist's message was: Matthew 3:2 (KJV) And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

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According to those in the camp of Steven Anderson, that there is not a mention of repentance in the book of John so that the sinner need not repent of sin, but just believe.  

Here are some questions:  

 

  1. Do you believe on the Son? He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
    (John 3:36 KJV)
  2. Jesus commanded "repent".  Do you believe you must obey the command to repent?  I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
    (Luke 13:3 KJV)
  3. Is repentance the same meaning as belief in Christ?  Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
    (Acts 20:21 KJV)
  4. Whom does Jesus call to repentance, sinners or righteous? When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
    (Mark 2:17 KJV)
  5. Do you believe you have sins to repent or none?  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
    (Isaiah 64:6 KJV)
  6. Should the wicked repent of his sins? Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
    (Ezekiel 33:11 KJV)
  7. What is the condition of God so that the wicked will receive forgiveness of sins?  Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
    (Isaiah 55:7 KJV)
  8. Will a person believe on the Lord Jesus if he loves sin and does not see his own sinfulness?And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
    (Luke 18:13 KJV)

 

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Sin is the symptom and not the disease. Sin is born of lust, which comes from a rebellious heart. Until one repents by turning back to God by faith in Christ, they cannot be saved from sin. It is not the repentance of sin that brings grace but rather repentance of rebellion by turning in humility to God.

Romans 2:4-5 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

James 1:13-16 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
 

James 4:5-7 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Here is my view of why the word "repent" is not in the book of John:

We studied the subject of repentance in Sunday School at our church and went through every bible passage which used the word. I f anyone is interested in those lessons, they can be found here: 

 

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All men are by nature sinful and loves sin.  When a person realizes his sins under the conviction of the Spirit and the preaching of the word, changes his mind about it and turns to Christ for salvation, would that be called repentance?  Or Do you believe that a person would just trust in Christ without realizing his sinful condition and its consequence and still wanted that sinful life? 

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1 hour ago, mbkjpreacher said:

All men are by nature sinful and loves sin.  When a person realizes his sins under the conviction of the Spirit and the preaching of the word, changes his mind about it and turns to Christ for salvation, would that be called repentance?  Or Do you believe that a person would just trust in Christ without realizing his sinful condition and its consequence and still wanted that sinful life? 

There should be some kind of repentance and a desire to follow God but you have to be careful with judging new believers. Many grow at different rates and turning from sin is really a battle for many and doesn't always happen over night. But there should be some kind of love for God's righteousness and conviction of sin.

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Well,   there is salvation for those who hate sin,  who renounce their 'soul' life to gain a 'spirit'(true) life in line with God's Word,   who turn to and come to Jesus to be healed (saved),  to be set free from the power of the devil,  the power of sin, the power of the world, and the power of sin and death....

We all HAD some sins we love, potentially.   When true repentance is accomplished,  when true healing, true salvation is accomplished by the Father,   there remains no more desire for sin,  no more love for sin - it is dealt with totally, as written.   Love the Truth.  Love what is Pure and Holy.   Do as God Directs,  not as if in debt to live any longer for sin in the old life, 

but owing all to God, putting on the newness of life,  in Christ Jesus,  as Described in His Word.

 

Even love of things of the world is not found in those who are in Christ Jesus - as written if someone loves the world, or the things of the world,  the love of God is not in them,  and they cannot be a friend of God if they are a friend of the world.   (see specifics throughout the NT) .

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When I got saved I still loved sin. I felt bad about it and knew it was wrong, but honestly I still enjoyed it and desired it. God has gradually helped me grow and my desires have changed. If a person is in Christ they are a new creature. How can a person have new desires in order to become a new creature to receive new desires???

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45 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

When I got saved I still loved sin. I felt bad about it and knew it was wrong, but honestly I still enjoyed it and desired it. God has gradually helped me grow and my desires have changed. If a person is in Christ they are a new creature. How can a person have new desires in order to become a new creature to receive new desires???

With all humble honesty, there are STILL some sins at some times that I love, even after being a child of God for 34 years.  The reason -- because I still retain the inner motivations of my selfish, sinful "flesh."  In fact, there is NO good thing, no, not even the smallest speck, in my selfish, sinful "flesh;" and thus my selfish, sinful "flesh" ALWAYS loves sin and hates godliness.

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39 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

With all humble honesty, there are STILL some sins at some times that I love, even after being a child of God for 34 years.  The reason -- because I still retain the inner motivations of my selfish, sinful "flesh."  In fact, there is NO good thing, no, not even the smallest speck, in my selfish, sinful "flesh;" and thus my selfish, sinful "flesh" ALWAYS loves sin and hates godliness.

An extremely humbling post, it convicted me mightily because it speaks directly to not only me myself, but I am convinced to most Christians if they are honest with themselves.

Thank you Bro. Scott for your brutally candid honesty this morning.

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On 7/5/2020 at 5:44 PM, Bouncing Bill said:

Well, as we are all sinners we best hope that salvation comes to all of us. We all have some sin[s] we love.

But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
(Matthew 9:12-13)
 

A person cannot be saved if he is self-righteous.  If he does not realize he is a sinner.  It is true that all men loves sin, and even if a person is already born again still there are sins that he loves and could not get rid of.  But somehow there is a starting point of changing thoughts about sin, from loving sin to hatred of it, to trusting Christ.  A person who never had a change of thought and views of sin, and still wanting more to be in bondage to sin would not trust in Christ.  Do you love sin when you accepted and trusted in Christ, or you realized that sin is displeasing to the Lord and you felt sorry about it so you trusted in Christ? 

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On 7/6/2020 at 3:11 AM, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

Well,   there is salvation for those who hate sin,  who renounce their 'soul' life to gain a 'spirit'(true) life in line with God's Word,   who turn to and come to Jesus to be healed (saved),  to be set free from the power of the devil,  the power of sin, the power of the world, and the power of sin and death....

We all HAD some sins we love, potentially.   When true repentance is accomplished,  when true healing, true salvation is accomplished by the Father,   there remains no more desire for sin,  no more love for sin - it is dealt with totally, as written.   Love the Truth.  Love what is Pure and Holy.   Do as God Directs,  not as if in debt to live any longer for sin in the old life, 

but owing all to God, putting on the newness of life,  in Christ Jesus,  as Described in His Word.

 

Even love of things of the world is not found in those who are in Christ Jesus - as written if someone loves the world, or the things of the world,  the love of God is not in them,  and they cannot be a friend of God if they are a friend of the world.   (see specifics throughout the NT) .

Repentance of sin is a result of the conviction of the Holy Spirit.  All men by nature loves sin.   But when a sinner is convicted and guilty of his sin, feel sorry being under condemnation realized that he is a hell-bound sinner and worthy of eternal death, and trust Christ as Savior, then he is saved.  At that point when he trusted Christ, he didn't want to live in sin anymore and he hated sin, and loved Jesus for the love and grace He bestowed.  But after he is saved, Satan just don't give up and keeps tempting again, to arouse love for sin.  It does not mean that when you become a Christian, the desire for sin stops.  However because of the love of God, and for God, there is the struggle.  ( Romans 7:15).  For a Christian to overcome sin, his love for God must continue to grow through mediation, fellowship, witnessing, church...  

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9 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

When I got saved I still loved sin. I felt bad about it and knew it was wrong, but honestly I still enjoyed it and desired it. God has gradually helped me grow and my desires have changed. If a person is in Christ they are a new creature. How can a person have new desires in order to become a new creature to receive new desires???

As I have explained above, it does not mean that when you become a Christian, there is no more desire for sin.  Yes there is still, that is why the Christian life is always a battle between the old self and the new nature.  But when you received Christ for salvation, you did not received Christ and trusted in Him when your heart and mind is full of love and desire for sin.  The Holy Spirit brought conviction making you realize what is sin, so that you felt guilty, unworthy, and you came to a point of being sorry for your sin, so that from loving sin there is a change of mind and heart to hating sin and trusting in Jesus for salvation.  You did not seek deliverance and trusted the Savior in order to change desire.  Rather, it was through the conviction of the Spirit and the word that you felt the need for salvation from sin and hell, so that brought repentance and faith in Jesus. 

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9 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

With all humble honesty, there are STILL some sins at some times that I love, even after being a child of God for 34 years.  The reason -- because I still retain the inner motivations of my selfish, sinful "flesh."  In fact, there is NO good thing, no, not even the smallest speck, in my selfish, sinful "flesh;" and thus my selfish, sinful "flesh" ALWAYS loves sin and hates godliness.

While in this life there is always the struggle between loving sin and loving God.  In 1 John 4: 7-8,  our Christian growth is evidence by love for God and others.  Our love for God is a result of knowing God.  We love him, because he first loved us.
(1 John 4:19),  We grow in our Christian life as we grow in knowledge and obedience to Christ.  But the question, when was the first time you started to love God and hate sin?  All your life you'd been loving sin and hating God.  But when did you change your mind and heart?  Was it when you hear the gospel? We love him because He first loved us.  You won't trust the Savior if you have great love for sin and hated the Savior.  But the Bible says, faith worketh by love.  How could you have faith if you were not affected by the love of Jesus?  

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.(Galatians 5:6)

8 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

An extremely humbling post, it convicted me mightily because it speaks directly to not only me myself, but I am convinced to most Christians if they are honest with themselves.

Thank you Bro. Scott for your brutally candid honesty this morning.

If there is no repentance of sin, and if the sinner loves sin greatly and hated salvation, how would he trust Christ.  There is a work of God's grace that brought the sinner to shame and guilt of his sin, so he repented of it and trusted in the Savior.  

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On 7/4/2020 at 1:50 PM, SureWord said:

There should be some kind of repentance and a desire to follow God but you have to be careful with judging new believers. Many grow at different rates and turning from sin is really a battle for many and doesn't always happen over night. But there should be some kind of love for God's righteousness and conviction of sin.

Salvation is one thing and spiritual growth is another thing.  Love for sin is natural for all men because the Bible says that all men are depraved, corrupt, and no one is seeking for God, Romans 3: 10-13, John 3: 19.  The work of grace in salvation is an inward grace, and is effected in our lives by the Holy Spirit.  (John 16:8; John 12: 32).  How does grace works in salvation?  The Holy Spirit convicts men of sin, John 16: 8.  Without it, man would not understand that he is a sinner or that he has sinned against God.  All men are sinners and love sin, Romans 3: 23; John 3: 19.  Sin displeases God and there is a consequence of sin (Romans 6: 23).  Its not only that he needs to realize that his methods and way of salvation is wrong, but needs to realize that he is a sinner.  If a person does not realize that he is a sinner, why would he needs to be saved?  He needs not only repent of his wrong method of salvation, but that all his doings and thoughts are sin, and that he must see himself as sinful as well not just his methods.  Some try to classify repentance of man such as 1) repentance not of sin 2) and repentance of sin.  And they will try to define repentance not of sin is unbelief to belief in God.  However if you ask them a question, Is unbelief sin, they cannot deny it, so they contradict their own rules.  They still repent of the sin of unbelief.  

When a person is saved, it does not mean that he does not commit sin anymore or that the desire for sin is eradicated.  But there is love for God growing in him and that is the reason for the struggle.  A truly saved person has that love for God greater than love for sin, though at times he can be defeated yet God's grace helps him to grow.  

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