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Separation over doctrine.


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21 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Yes. Jesus lightens EVERY man that comes into the world-He gives everyone born the ight to see and receive-at that point, it is up to us to respond.

20 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Not found in the scriptures, as Jesus died for His own elect!

15 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Really??? Here is a direct quote from God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures, John 1:9 - "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

(Seems as if your dependence more upon man-made confessions and creeds, than upon God's Own Word, has led you astray.)

1 hour ago, DaChaser said:

keep reading, as his own received Him, but the rest preferred to stay lost in the dark! (emphasis added by Pastor Scott Markle)

Indeed, I did keep reading; and that is NOT what it says.  

Here is what it actually says in John 1:10-13 -- "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.  He came unto his own, and his own received him notBut as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

(Once again you provide NO actual quotation of God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures; and what you do present is NOT the same as what is found in God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures.)

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1 hour ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Indeed, I did keep reading; and that is NOT what it says.  

Here is what it actually says in John 1:10-13 -- "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.  He came unto his own, and his own received him notBut as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

(Once again you provide NO actual quotation of God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures; and what you do present is NOT the same as what is found in God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures.)

Right there, those who received him as their lord was due to the very will of God Himself!

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3 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Indeed, I did keep reading; and that is NOT what it says.  

Here is what it actually says in John 1:10-13 -- "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.  He came unto his own, and his own received him notBut as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

(Once again you provide NO actual quotation of God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures; and what you do present is NOT the same as what is found in God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures.)

1 hour ago, DaChaser said:

Right there, those who received him as their lord was due to the very will of God Himself!

And yet again, NOT what the passage says.  First, the passage does not say anything about receiving Christ "as their Lord."  Second, the passage indicates that receiving Christ is equivalent to believing "on His name."  Third, the passage indicates that those who received Him by believing on His name are given "power to become the sons of God."  Fourth, the passage passage indicates that these individuals are born "of God."  However, it does NOT say anything about them receiving/believing on Christ "due to the will of God."  In fact, the only direct reference to God the Father in this passage is the indication that receivers/believers are BORN "of God."

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1 hour ago, DaChaser said:

Right there, those who received him as their lord was due to the very will of God Himself!

The received Him by their choice, but the entire thing, salvation, eternal life itself, was completely of God's will, yes. Man could hope and will and try all he wanted but would fail, except that, by His will, God made eternal life available to man. That still doesn't mean that God chooses who will and who won't, it means he made the whole things possible, completely out of man's will. The price was paid once, by Christ, according to God's will, not man's. BUT, man chooses to believe or not, to receive, to respond to God's lift and call. You mistake God's overall work, with being an individual choosing, individual by individual. 

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9 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Query: Does I take away from the sovereignty of God to allow His creation to choose life or death? To choose the eternal life obtained, won and offered by Jesus Christ, or to reject said gift and instead choose ignorance and damnation? Is God LESS sovereign in man following by choice, not by compulsion? I do not believe so. In fact, to declare that God CAN'T do that is to take away from his sovereignty. To declare that SOME have had the ability to follow Christ denied them by God, yet for that same God to demand they follow Him or suffer eternal damnation, KNOWING they cannot, by HIS will, do so, would be a great travesty of justice by Him who is the Only Just One. 

There is a huge difference between demanding someone do something that you know they will not do, and demanding from someone you know they CANNOT do, because you will not allow it.  Jesus bid Peter to walk on the water, knowing that Peter, through Jesus' will, could do so, and so Peter did walk on the water...until Peter's will and fears caused him to begin to sink, his will superseding the will of Christ. So Christ bids all come to Him for eternal life, knowing they all CAN, though knowing most will not. 

Scripture please.

Case closed! Well done counselor.

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18 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

The received Him by their choice, but the entire thing, salvation, eternal life itself, was completely of God's will, yes. Man could hope and will and try all he wanted but would fail, except that, by His will, God made eternal life available to man. That still doesn't mean that God chooses who will and who won't, it means he made the whole things possible, completely out of man's will. The price was paid once, by Christ, according to God's will, not man's. BUT, man chooses to believe or not, to receive, to respond to God's lift and call. You mistake God's overall work, with being an individual choosing, individual by individual. 

How can sinners who desire to stay lost turn to Christ unless enabled by Holy Spirit? What part of them not affected by Fall of Adam?

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1 Peter 4:6 (KJV) For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 12:32 (KJV) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Romans 5:18 (KJV) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1 Timothy 2:4 (KJV) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Hebrews 10:10 (KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

The old missionary pastor I was saved under had a wise saying: "All means all and that is all that all means".

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On 6/5/2020 at 9:54 AM, Jim_Alaska said:

1 Peter 4:6 (KJV) For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 12:32 (KJV) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Romans 5:18 (KJV) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1 Timothy 2:4 (KJV) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Hebrews 10:10 (KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

The old missionary pastor I was saved under had a wise saying: "All means all and that is all that all means".

There is a difference between what He desires though and what He actually wills to happen!

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On 6/4/2020 at 8:56 AM, DaChaser said:

How can sinners who desire to stay lost turn to Christ unless enabled by Holy Spirit? What part of them not affected by Fall of Adam?

That has been answered: Jesus lightens every man that comes into the world-ALL are given the ability to come-that many don't WANT to come makes no difference-God will not force anyone to come, that desires to say lost, but he has both given ALL enlightenment, and has drawn all to Him from the cross. The final choice remains with the creature: accept salvation offered, or reject it.

 

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4 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

That has been answered: Jesus lightens every man that comes into the world-ALL are given the ability to come-that many don't WANT to come makes no difference-God will not force anyone to come, that desires to say lost, but he has both given ALL enlightenment, and has drawn all to Him from the cross. The final choice remains with the creature: accept salvation offered, or reject it.

 

Except that we have all a fallen nature, which is at war with God and prefers to be disobedient to Him, and prefers darkness to light!

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1 hour ago, DaChaser said:

Except that we have all a fallen nature, which is at war with God and prefers to be disobedient to Him, and prefers darkness to light!

And that changes nothing at all of what I said. Christ has done His part: Died to pay for the sin of the world; Lightens every man that comes into the world; draws all men to Him from the cross. What more does anyone need from Him? The Lord also gave us His word.  Then, we who hear and respond and are saved speak the gospel to those we are able to speak it to, and faith comes HOW? Faith cometh by HEARING, and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.  

So, all men have the light of Christ, the drawing of Christ, the word of God, and the gospel. Just because most will choose to reject it, doesn't mean God is in any way responsible to do anything more, as He has already done more than we deserve. Jesus already said that the gate is narrow and the way is straight, and few there would be that find it-that's because most will reject and choose the broad way that leads to destruction. 

So I am not seeing your issue here. Our fallen nature doesn't preclude our ability to choose to receive the gift of salvation.

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58 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

And that changes nothing at all of what I said. Christ has done His part: Died to pay for the sin of the world; Lightens every man that comes into the world; draws all men to Him from the cross. What more does anyone need from Him? The Lord also gave us His word.  Then, we who hear and respond and are saved speak the gospel to those we are able to speak it to, and faith comes HOW? Faith cometh by HEARING, and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.  

So, all men have the light of Christ, the drawing of Christ, the word of God, and the gospel. Just because most will choose to reject it, doesn't mean God is in any way responsible to do anything more, as He has already done more than we deserve. Jesus already said that the gate is narrow and the way is straight, and few there would be that find it-that's because most will reject and choose the broad way that leads to destruction. 

So I am not seeing your issue here. Our fallen nature doesn't preclude our ability to choose to receive the gift of salvation.

Amen brother!!!

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  God did NOT create anyone with the express purpose of sending them to hell with no chance for salvation.  After all, if everyone was already predestinated, why have Bibles, preachers, churches, etc? Why worship at all if one cannot change his/her predestination ?

  Salvation is open to ALL LIVING. Can you name anyone for whom salvation is impossible ?

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