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Separation over doctrine.


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19 hours ago, gracelife said:

Heresy is any doctrine that does not align with Scripture. Calvinism is a man made philosophy, a paradigm that does not align at all with Scripture. It is a damnable heresy! The god of Calvinism is sadistic!

2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Calvinism gives the full glory to God for the plan and outworking of salvation, how is that heresy?

15 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

And that reveals one of the differences between us - I do NOT hold to "historical orthodoxy" as my authority for doctrine and behavior.  Rather, I hold to GOD'S OWN WORD as my authority for doctrine and behavior.  (Which is probably one of the reasons that my posts in this thread discussion have included actual Scriptural quotations and explanations for support, while yours have lacked actual Scriptural quotations.)

Sound Christian doctrines, as expressed in the Bible and in the historical confessions and creeds of the Faith!

Edited by DaChaser
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15 minutes ago, DaChaser said:

Sound Christian doctrines, as expressed in the Bible and in the historical confessions and creeds of the Faith!

I disagree.  I hold - Sound Christian doctrine as expressed in the the Bible, God's Own Word, ALONE!!!  I care not at all concerning "historical confessions and creeds of the faith.  I care not at all concerning the man-made paradigm of so-called "orthodoxy."  God's Own Word is my ONLY and FINAL authority for belief and behavior.!!!  (Indeed, a significant difference between us.)  "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (See 2 Timothy 3:16)  No historical confession or creed of the faith was given by inspiration of God.  Why then would I step down from that which is God-inspired to that which is man-made?  As for me, I will NOT!!!

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In a previous post you said; "I am not neo eveangelical, as am a reformed baptist". In this I feel the need to ask; reformed from what? Possibly this?:

Jude 3 (KJV) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.  1Ti 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

The faith once delivered to the saints was pre-Calvin.

 

Calvinism easily falls under Paul's instruction to Timothy here: 1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

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3 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

I disagree.  I hold - Sound Christian doctrine as expressed in the the Bible, God's Own Word, ALONE!!!  I care not at all concerning "historical confessions and creeds of the faith.  I care not at all concerning the man-made paradigm of so-called "orthodoxy."  God's Own Word is my ONLY and FINAL authority for belief and behavior.!!!  (Indeed, a significant difference between us.)  "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (See 2 Timothy 3:16)  No historical confession or creed of the faith was given by inspiration of God.  Why then would I step down from that which is God-inspired to that which is man-made?  As for me, I will NOT!!!

I do not see ANY of the Confessions are inspired, nor as the final authority, as that is still in thje scriptures themselves, but do see the Confessions as useful summaries of what the scriptures themselves teach!

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On 5/30/2020 at 8:43 AM, DaChaser said:

Calvinism gives the full glory to God for the plan and outworking of salvation, how is that heresy?

 

Calvinism goes well beyond that. Of course God is to be given full glory for the plan and outworking of salvation; the problem is it then delves into philosophy and declares that man can't be saved before he is regenerated, and that man, because he is dead in sin, cannot, therefore, make a choice to follow, yet I disagree with that, and so does scripture. 
 

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. " (Eph 1:13, 14)  1: Hear, 2: Trust, 3: believe, 4: Sealed. Regeneration occurs at 3, believe. It cannot begin at 1. Predestination is through foreknowledge, not declaration. Christ did the work, Christ paid the price, Christ enlightens all men, Christ calls all men to Him, but we choose to answer or not.

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On 6/1/2020 at 1:01 PM, gracelife said:

You are deceived @DaChaser!

Scriptures command us to not b reak the unity of the Holy Spirit, for we are all one in Christ Jesus, regardless if labeled Baptist or not, if use Kjv 1611 or not!

1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said:

Calvinism goes well beyond that. Of course God is to be given full glory for the plan and outworking of salvation; the problem is it then delves into philosophy and declares that man can't be saved before he is regenerated, and that man, because he is dead in sin, cannot, therefore, make a choice to follow, yet I disagree with that, and so does scripture. 
 

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. " (Eph 1:13, 14)  1: Hear, 2: Trust, 3: believe, 4: Sealed. Regeneration occurs at 3, believe. It cannot begin at 1. Predestination is through foreknowledge, not declaration. Christ did the work, Christ paid the price, Christ enlightens all men, Christ calls all men to Him, but we choose to answer or not.

Unless the Holy Spirit enables/quickens lost sinners to place faith in Jesus as Lord, none of us would!

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2 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Unless the Holy Spirit enables/quickens lost sinners to place faith in Jesus as Lord, none of us would!

Yes. Jesus lightens EVERY man that comes into the world-He gives everyone born the ight to see and receive-at that point, it is up to us to respond.

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24 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

Yes. Jesus lightens EVERY man that comes into the world-He gives everyone born the ight to see and receive-at that point, it is up to us to respond.

Not found in the scriptures, as Jesus died for His own elect!

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1 hour ago, DaChaser said:

Not found in the scriptures, as Jesus died for His own elect!

Jesus died for every single person who will ever live! His atonement is UNLIMITED! And no I am not an Arminian! 1 John 2:2 (KJV) reads: "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." It is up to unbelievers to respond to the gospel and trust that Christ died for them!

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5 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Yes. Jesus lightens EVERY man that comes into the world-He gives everyone born the ight to see and receive-at that point, it is up to us to respond.

5 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Not found in the scriptures, as Jesus died for His own elect!

Really??? Here is a direct quote from God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures, John 1:9 - "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

(Seems as if your dependence more upon man-made confessions and creeds, than upon God's Own Word, has led you astray.)

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12 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Really??? Here is a direct quote from God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures, John 1:9 - "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

(Seems as if your dependence more upon man-made confessions and creeds, than upon God's Own Word, has led you astray.)

Thanks for that. I was actually answering that with a lot of scripture, but doing it at work, got distracted and never got it finished. 

 

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Query: Does I take away from the sovereignty of God to allow His creation to choose life or death? To choose the eternal life obtained, won and offered by Jesus Christ, or to reject said gift and instead choose ignorance and damnation? Is God LESS sovereign in man following by choice, not by compulsion? I do not believe so. In fact, to declare that God CAN'T do that is to take away from his sovereignty. To declare that SOME have had the ability to follow Christ denied them by God, yet for that same God to demand they follow Him or suffer eternal damnation, KNOWING they cannot, by HIS will, do so, would be a great travesty of justice by Him who is the Only Just One. 

There is a huge difference between demanding someone do something that you know they will not do, and demanding from someone you know they CANNOT do, because you will not allow it.  Jesus bid Peter to walk on the water, knowing that Peter, through Jesus' will, could do so, and so Peter did walk on the water...until Peter's will and fears caused him to begin to sink, his will superseding the will of Christ. So Christ bids all come to Him for eternal life, knowing they all CAN, though knowing most will not. 

20 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Scriptures command us to not break the unity of the Holy Spirit, for we are all one in Christ Jesus, regardless if labeled Baptist or not, if use Kjv 1611 or not!

Scripture please.

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17 hours ago, gracelife said:

Jesus died for every single person who will ever live! His atonement is UNLIMITED! And no I am not an Arminian! 1 John 2:2 (KJV) reads: "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." It is up to unbelievers to respond to the gospel and trust that Christ died for them!

The death of Jesus was sufficient to have save all sinners, as was infinite as he was God, but was intended to save the very elect!

13 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Really??? Here is a direct quote from God's Own Word, the Holy Scriptures, John 1:9 - "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

(Seems as if your dependence more upon man-made confessions and creeds, than upon God's Own Word, has led you astray.)

keep reading, as his own received Him, but the rest preferred to stay lost in the dark!

1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said:

Query: Does I take away from the sovereignty of God to allow His creation to choose life or death? To choose the eternal life obtained, won and offered by Jesus Christ, or to reject said gift and instead choose ignorance and damnation? Is God LESS sovereign in man following by choice, not by compulsion? I do not believe so. In fact, to declare that God CAN'T do that is to take away from his sovereignty. To declare that SOME have had the ability to follow Christ denied them by God, yet for that same God to demand they follow Him or suffer eternal damnation, KNOWING they cannot, by HIS will, do so, would be a great travesty of justice by Him who is the Only Just One. 

There is a huge difference between demanding someone do something that you know they will not do, and demanding from someone you know they CANNOT do, because you will not allow it.  Jesus bid Peter to walk on the water, knowing that Peter, through Jesus' will, could do so, and so Peter did walk on the water...until Peter's will and fears caused him to begin to sink, his will superseding the will of Christ. So Christ bids all come to Him for eternal life, knowing they all CAN, though knowing most will not. 

Scripture please.

Ephesians 4:3-6

And as the resylt of the Fall, mankind are sinnners by natures, and cannot by themselves come to Christ, as will prefer to stay in darkness!

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On 5/29/2020 at 11:14 AM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother DaChaser,

I do indeed believe that an individual can be a fellow believer through faith in Christ and yet disagree concerning the doctrine of the Second Coming, the doctrine of baptism, etc.  However, I do NOT believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation limits separation only from unbelievers.  In fact, in accord with 1 Timothy 6:3-5 I believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation requires me to separate from "ANY" individual (believer or unbeliever) who teaches contrary "to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness."  

This thread discussion is not about how we define who is a fellow believer.  Rather, this thread discussion is about those from whom we should and will separate.  Thus far you seem to be limiting the "line of separation" only in relation to unbelievers.  I am contending that GOD'S OWN WORD also instructs us to separate from fellow believers in some cases.

It does, but only when the person is claiming to be saved, and yet refusing to deal with sin issues when confronted, or when they now hold to doctrines contrary to sound doctrines!

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