Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted May 27, 2020 Members Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, DaChaser said: I hold that Calvinism teaches the best explanation of Sotierology proper from the scriptures, but will not divide/seperate from someone like yourself who is saved by the same Lord i am ! Indeed. And as per my above posting, I hold that I am required by and before the Lord my God, in accord with the command of His Own Word, to separate from "any man" who teaches contrary to the "wholesome words" of our Lord Jesus Christ and "to the doctrine which is according to godliness," regardless of whether that "any man" is a fellow believer, or not. I wonder if you have Biblical support for your position on separation, or if you have simply chosen to follow a man-made paradigm on separation. Remember that the DOCTRINE of separation is a doctrine of God's Own Word. Therefore, any position that we take concerning separation SHOULD have Biblical support. Now, if your position on separation DOES have Biblical support, I request that you present the Biblical support thereof. Jim_Alaska and Scott Lyons 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted May 28, 2020 Members Share Posted May 28, 2020 17 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Indeed. And as per my above posting, I hold that I am required by and before the Lord my God, in accord with the command of His Own Word, to separate from "any man" who teaches contrary to the "wholesome words" of our Lord Jesus Christ and "to the doctrine which is according to godliness," regardless of whether that "any man" is a fellow believer, or not. I wonder if you have Biblical support for your position on separation, or if you have simply chosen to follow a man-made paradigm on separation. Remember that the DOCTRINE of separation is a doctrine of God's Own Word. Therefore, any position that we take concerning separation SHOULD have Biblical support. Now, if your position on separation DOES have Biblical support, I request that you present the Biblical support thereof. We are told to seperate and come from among them, if they hold to doctrines n ot as per the scriptures, and I see agreement manditory of the Fundentals of the Faith, but that we can still agree to disagree on secondary issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted May 28, 2020 Administrators Share Posted May 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, DaChaser said: "but that we can still agree to disagree on secondary issues!" Where do we find Scripture supporting this assertion? Scott Lyons 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Lyons Posted May 28, 2020 Members Share Posted May 28, 2020 46 minutes ago, DaChaser said: We are told to seperate and come from among them, if they hold to doctrines n ot as per the scriptures, and I see agreement manditory of the Fundentals of the Faith, but that we can still agree to disagree on secondary issues! Calvinism is a man made paradigm that holds to doctrine that is contrary to Scripture! They eisegete Scripture by imposing their heretical doctrine into the text instead of exegeting Scripture! Calvinism is absolute heresy that is leading many many people to hell!!! The god of Calvinism is EVIL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted May 28, 2020 Members Share Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DaChaser said: We are told to seperate and come from among them, if they hold to doctrines n ot as per the scriptures, and I see agreement manditory of the Fundentals of the Faith, but that we can still agree to disagree on secondary issues! Ahhh, but here is my problem with your above statement. You continue to use the two phrases, "Fundamentals of the Faith" and "secondary issues." However, these phrases are NOT found in God's Word; therefore, we cannot acquire a direct Biblical definition for these phrases. As such, these phrases are able to be defined according to our own preferences/agendas. How then do we define the "line of separation" according to a BIBLICAL definition thereof? How do we define "Fundamentals of the Faith" from GOD'S OWN WORD? How do we define "secondary issues" from GOD'S OWN WORD? Now, I myself have presented an actual teaching on separation from GOD'S OWN WORD, as per 1 Timothy 6:3-5. According to that teaching of GOD'S OWN WORD the matter for separation is NOT the "Fundamentals of the Faith" versus "secondary issues." Rather, according to the teaching of GOD'S OWN WORD in that passage, the matter for separation is "if ANY man" (believer or unbeliever) teaches contrary "to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness." This is how GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF defines the matter of doctrinal separation. As for me, I prefer to follow God the Holy Spirit on the matter of separation rather than man-made definitions and paradigms on the matter. By the way, the phrase, "come out from among them, and be ye separate" is found in 2 Corinthians 6:16. The context for this verse encompasses 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. 2 Corinthians 6:14 begins, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with UNBELIEVERS . . . ." Even so, this passage is NOT about separation from those who teach and/or hold to false doctrine. Rather, this passage is about separation from UNBELIEVERS simply because they are unbelievers. The "them" of 2 Corinthians 6:16 from whom we are to "come out" and be "separate" are the UNBELIEVERS of 2 Corinthians 6:14. Now, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 DOES indeed apply to the Biblical doctrine of separation, but NOT concerning separation over false teaching and from false teachers (which is taught in passages such as 1 Timothy 6:3-5). Brother DaChaser, my counsel (for what it may be worth to you) is that - if you really want to stand for Biblical truth, then you should bring forward a whole lot more actual Scripture into your communications and discussions, and that you should spend much more time actually exegeting those Scriptural passages according to their grammar and context. Edited May 28, 2020 by Pastor Scott Markle Jordan Kurecki, Scott Lyons and Jim_Alaska 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted May 28, 2020 Members Share Posted May 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Ahhh, but here is my problem with your above statement. You continue to use the two phrases, "Fundamentals of the Faith" and "secondary issues." However, these phrases are NOT found in God's Word; therefore, we cannot acquire a direct Biblical definition for these phrases. As such, these phrases are able to be defined according to our own preferences/agendas. How then do we define the "line of separation" according to a BIBLICAL definition thereof? How do we define "Fundamentals of the Faith" from GOD'S OWN WORD? How do we define "secondary issues" from GOD'S OWN WORD? Now, I myself have presented an actual teaching on separation from GOD'S OWN WORD, as per 1 Timothy 6:3-5. According to that teaching of GOD'S OWN WORD the matter for separation is NOT the "Fundamentals of the Faith" versus "secondary issues." Rather, according to the teaching of GOD'S OWN WORD in that passage, the matter for separation is "if ANY man" (believer or unbeliever) teaches contrary "to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness." This is how GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF defines the matter of doctrinal separation. As for me, I prefer to follow God the Holy Spirit on the matter of separation rather than man-made definitions and paradigms on the matter. By the way, the phrase, "come out from among them, and be ye separate" is found in 2 Corinthians 6:16. The context for this verse encompasses 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. 2 Corinthians 6:14 begins, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with UNBELIEVERS . . . ." Even so, this passage is NOT about separation from those who teach and/or hold to false doctrine. Rather, this passage is about separation from UNBELIEVERS simply because they are unbelievers. The "them" of 2 Corinthians 6:16 from whom we are to "come out" and be "separate" are the UNBELIEVERS of 2 Corinthians 6:14. Now, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 DOES indeed apply to the Biblical doctrine of separation, but NOT concerning separation over false teaching and from false teachers (which is taught in passages such as 1 Timothy 6:3-5). Brother DaChaser, my counsel (for what it may be worth to you) is that - if you really want to stand for Biblical truth, then you should bring forward a whole lot more actual Scripture into your communications and discussions, and that you should spend much more time actually exegeting those Scriptural passages according to their grammar and context. Spot on. I am so glad for you pointing this out. I am still yet to see any Neo-Evangelical explain scripturally what is a fundamental and what is secondary. Scott Lyons and Alan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted May 29, 2020 Members Share Posted May 29, 2020 21 hours ago, gracelife said: Calvinism is a man made paradigm that holds to doctrine that is contrary to Scripture! They eisegete Scripture by imposing their heretical doctrine into the text instead of exegeting Scripture! Calvinism is absolute heresy that is leading many many people to hell!!! The god of Calvinism is EVIL!!! You misunderstand both Calvinism and proper Sotierology of the scriptures! 16 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said: Spot on. I am so glad for you pointing this out. I am still yet to see any Neo-Evangelical explain scripturally what is a fundamental and what is secondary. I am not neo eveangelical, as am a reformed baptist, who would see that under the Grace of our Lord jesus is that one can have differing viewpoints, can be pre/post A mil for example! 20 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Ahhh, but here is my problem with your above statement. You continue to use the two phrases, "Fundamentals of the Faith" and "secondary issues." However, these phrases are NOT found in God's Word; therefore, we cannot acquire a direct Biblical definition for these phrases. As such, these phrases are able to be defined according to our own preferences/agendas. How then do we define the "line of separation" according to a BIBLICAL definition thereof? How do we define "Fundamentals of the Faith" from GOD'S OWN WORD? How do we define "secondary issues" from GOD'S OWN WORD? Now, I myself have presented an actual teaching on separation from GOD'S OWN WORD, as per 1 Timothy 6:3-5. According to that teaching of GOD'S OWN WORD the matter for separation is NOT the "Fundamentals of the Faith" versus "secondary issues." Rather, according to the teaching of GOD'S OWN WORD in that passage, the matter for separation is "if ANY man" (believer or unbeliever) teaches contrary "to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness." This is how GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF defines the matter of doctrinal separation. As for me, I prefer to follow God the Holy Spirit on the matter of separation rather than man-made definitions and paradigms on the matter. By the way, the phrase, "come out from among them, and be ye separate" is found in 2 Corinthians 6:16. The context for this verse encompasses 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. 2 Corinthians 6:14 begins, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with UNBELIEVERS . . . ." Even so, this passage is NOT about separation from those who teach and/or hold to false doctrine. Rather, this passage is about separation from UNBELIEVERS simply because they are unbelievers. The "them" of 2 Corinthians 6:16 from whom we are to "come out" and be "separate" are the UNBELIEVERS of 2 Corinthians 6:14. Now, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 DOES indeed apply to the Biblical doctrine of separation, but NOT concerning separation over false teaching and from false teachers (which is taught in passages such as 1 Timothy 6:3-5). Brother DaChaser, my counsel (for what it may be worth to you) is that - if you really want to stand for Biblical truth, then you should bring forward a whole lot more actual Scripture into your communications and discussions, and that you should spend much more time actually exegeting those Scriptural passages according to their grammar and context. Do you accept that one can be a fellow believer and disagree on timing of Second Coming, and Baptist modes for examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted May 29, 2020 Members Share Posted May 29, 2020 1 hour ago, DaChaser said: Do you accept that one can be a fellow believer and disagree on timing of Second Coming, and Baptist modes for examples? Brother DaChaser, I do indeed believe that an individual can be a fellow believer through faith in Christ and yet disagree concerning the doctrine of the Second Coming, the doctrine of baptism, etc. However, I do NOT believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation limits separation only from unbelievers. In fact, in accord with 1 Timothy 6:3-5 I believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation requires me to separate from "ANY" individual (believer or unbeliever) who teaches contrary "to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness." This thread discussion is not about how we define who is a fellow believer. Rather, this thread discussion is about those from whom we should and will separate. Thus far you seem to be limiting the "line of separation" only in relation to unbelievers. I am contending that GOD'S OWN WORD also instructs us to separate from fellow believers in some cases. Scott Lyons and John Young 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted May 29, 2020 Members Share Posted May 29, 2020 25 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Brother DaChaser, I do indeed believe that an individual can be a fellow believer through faith in Christ and yet disagree concerning the doctrine of the Second Coming, the doctrine of baptism, etc. However, I do NOT believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation limits separation only from unbelievers. In fact, in accord with 1 Timothy 6:3-5 I believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation requires me to separate from "ANY" individual (believer or unbeliever) who teaches contrary "to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness." This thread discussion is not about how we define who is a fellow believer. Rather, this thread discussion is about those from whom we should and will separate. Thus far you seem to be limiting the "line of separation" only in relation to unbelievers. I am contending that GOD'S OWN WORD also instructs us to separate from fellow believers in some cases. I only see separation in the scriptures between believers allowed by God if on e of the parties is into known sinning, and when confronted refuses to repent and is condoning that sin, or if they have gone off into heresy in their doctrines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Lyons Posted May 29, 2020 Members Share Posted May 29, 2020 2 hours ago, DaChaser said: You misunderstand both Calvinism and proper Sotierology of the scriptures! I am not neo eveangelical, as am a reformed baptist, who would see that under the Grace of our Lord jesus is that one can have differing viewpoints, can be pre/post A mil for example! Do you accept that one can be a fellow believer and disagree on timing of Second Coming, and Baptist modes for examples? I used to be a Calvinist and completely understand it! It is a man made philosophy, a paradigm that totally goes against Scripture! It is not biblical at all. 1 hour ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Brother DaChaser, I do indeed believe that an individual can be a fellow believer through faith in Christ and yet disagree concerning the doctrine of the Second Coming, the doctrine of baptism, etc. However, I do NOT believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation limits separation only from unbelievers. In fact, in accord with 1 Timothy 6:3-5 I believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation requires me to separate from "ANY" individual (believer or unbeliever) who teaches contrary "to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness." This thread discussion is not about how we define who is a fellow believer. Rather, this thread discussion is about those from whom we should and will separate. Thus far you seem to be limiting the "line of separation" only in relation to unbelievers. I am contending that GOD'S OWN WORD also instructs us to separate from fellow believers in some cases. Yes we are to separate from Calvinists, Arminians, and Lordship Salvationists! Any doctrine that teaches a works based salvation by either front loading the gospel, or back loading the gospel must be avoided and we must separate from them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted May 29, 2020 Members Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Brother DaChaser, I do indeed believe that an individual can be a fellow believer through faith in Christ and yet disagree concerning the doctrine of the Second Coming, the doctrine of baptism, etc. However, I do NOT believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation limits separation only from unbelievers. In fact, in accord with 1 Timothy 6:3-5 I believe that the Biblical doctrine of separation requires me to separate from "ANY" individual (believer or unbeliever) who teaches contrary "to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness." This thread discussion is not about how we define who is a fellow believer. Rather, this thread discussion is about those from whom we should and will separate. Thus far you seem to be limiting the "line of separation" only in relation to unbelievers. I am contending that GOD'S OWN WORD also instructs us to separate from fellow believers in some cases. 1 hour ago, DaChaser said: I only see separation in the scriptures between believers allowed by God if on e of the parties is into known sinning, and when confronted refuses to repent and is condoning that sin, or if they have gone off into heresy in their doctrines! So then, what do you do with the "any man" phrase of 1 Timothy 6:3-5 (which IS in the Scriptures)? By the way, could you please provide a Biblical definition for the word "heresy"? Edited May 29, 2020 by Pastor Scott Markle The added "by the way" request. Scott Lyons 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted May 29, 2020 Members Share Posted May 29, 2020 3 hours ago, gracelife said: I used to be a Calvinist and completely understand it! It is a man made philosophy, a paradigm that totally goes against Scripture! It is not biblical at all. Yes we are to separate from Calvinists, Arminians, and Lordship Salvationists! Any doctrine that teaches a works based salvation by either front loading the gospel, or back loading the gospel must be avoided and we must separate from them! Should we not desire to have jesus has the Lord over all aspects of our lives though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted May 29, 2020 Members Share Posted May 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: So then, what do you do with the "any man" phrase of 1 Timothy 6:3-5 (which IS in the Scriptures)? By the way, could you please provide a Biblical definition for the word "heresy"? Heresy to my understanding would be anything doctrine that would be against what has been historically held as being orthodox for the Christian community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Lyons Posted May 29, 2020 Members Share Posted May 29, 2020 41 minutes ago, DaChaser said: Heresy to my understanding would be anything doctrine that would be against what has been historically held as being orthodox for the Christian community. Heresy is any doctrine that does not align with Scripture. Calvinism is a man made philosophy, a paradigm that does not align at all with Scripture. It is a damnable heresy! The god of Calvinism is sadistic! 2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted May 30, 2020 Members Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, DaChaser said: Heresy to my understanding would be anything doctrine that would be against what has been historically held as being orthodox for the Christian community. (emphasis added by Pastor Scott Markle) And that reveals one of the differences between us - I do NOT hold to "historical orthodoxy" as my authority for doctrine and behavior. Rather, I hold to GOD'S OWN WORD as my authority for doctrine and behavior. (Which is probably one of the reasons that my posts in this thread discussion have included actual Scriptural quotations and explanations for support, while yours have lacked actual Scriptural quotations.) Edited May 30, 2020 by Pastor Scott Markle Scott Lyons, Alan and Jim_Alaska 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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