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DaveW

Separation over doctrine.

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As independents we should already be separated. The better question should be, "With whom will I fellowship?". A person's doctrine, practices, and location does not determine my separation but it does determine my level of fellowship.

Edited by John Young

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I think a lot would depend on the level or differences in doctrinal matters. In other words some doctrinal matters are of more importance than others. For that reason it is hard for me to consider this a blanket question unless specific doctrines are brought into the question.

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Exactly the point - what is "big enough" for you to stop fellowshipping with someone?

Or is the whole concept wrong?

Just a topic for discussion...…..

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On 3/4/2020 at 1:14 AM, DaveW said:

What are people's thoughts over separating from fellowship with someone over doctrinal matters?

I would have to ask what are we dividing over though? As I have Christian friends eho hold to various views on Eschatology, some are Reformed, some Baptist, some Dispy some holding to Covenant theology!

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10 hours ago, DaChaser said:

I would have to ask what are we dividing over though? As I have Christian friends eho hold to various views on Eschatology, some are Reformed, some Baptist, some Dispy some holding to Covenant theology!

They are all interpretations not doctrine, althoughmany think they are.

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24 minutes ago, Invicta said:

They are all interpretations not doctrine, althoughmany think they are.

When dealing with the difference between 'God sovereignly decided, before the foundations of time, who would be saved and who would go to hell', and then commands them ALL to be saved or go to hell' as opposed to 'whosoever will', THAT is doctrine-in fact, it covers a few doctrines, like the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ, whether man has free will to choose to follow or reject, and such. That is doctrine.

 

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13 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

When dealing with the difference between 'God sovereignly decided, before the foundations of time, who would be saved and who would go to hell', and then commands them ALL to be saved or go to hell' as opposed to 'whosoever will', THAT is doctrine-in fact, it covers a few doctrines, like the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ, whether man has free will to choose to follow or reject, and such. That is doctrine.

 

Yes I agree with you.

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On 3/28/2020 at 8:40 PM, Ukulelemike said:

When dealing with the difference between 'God sovereignly decided, before the foundations of time, who would be saved and who would go to hell', and then commands them ALL to be saved or go to hell' as opposed to 'whosoever will', THAT is doctrine-in fact, it covers a few doctrines, like the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ, whether man has free will to choose to follow or reject, and such. That is doctrine.

 

Think that those are in house issues free to dioscuss and disagree, but not raising to level of seperation

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On 5/15/2020 at 6:54 AM, DaChaser said:

Think that those are in house issues free to dioscuss and disagree, but not raising to level of seperation

It.absolutely raises to the level of separation,  because we are dealing with the foundational doctrine of eternal life. 

 

If I say everyone has an equal.ability to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved, and YOU say, No, not everyone has that ability, that is a serious issue. I have personally witnessed the agony caused when a Calvinst had a hard time in sin and believed himself not of the elect, and it almost led him to suicide. I would perhaps talk with someone over the issue, but could not fellowship with them if that fundamental issue was in disagreement.

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20 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

It.absolutely raises to the level of separation,  because we are dealing with the foundational doctrine of eternal life. 

 

If I say everyone has an equal.ability to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved, and YOU say, No, not everyone has that ability, that is a serious issue. I have personally witnessed the agony caused when a Calvinst had a hard time in sin and believed himself not of the elect, and it almost led him to suicide. I would perhaps talk with someone over the issue, but could not fellowship with them if that fundamental issue was in disagreement.

I am just saying that one can be saved and be either a calvinist or not, and while cam make for inyeresting discussions, not an issue to divide over! To me, thnose issues are like Deity of Jesus, Trinity, Bible inspration etc!

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3 hours ago, DaChaser said:

I am just saying that one can be saved and be either a calvinist or not, and while cam make for inyeresting discussions, not an issue to divide over! To me, thnose issues are like Deity of Jesus, Trinity, Bible inspration etc!

I guess we all need to choose our hills to fight on, but seems to me that HOW one is saved in the first place is a pretty big hill. Since standard Calvinist doctrine teaches one is regenerated before they are saved, that's plain heresy. But you pick your fights, I will pick mine.

 

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On 5/17/2020 at 4:51 PM, Ukulelemike said:

I guess we all need to choose our hills to fight on, but seems to me that HOW one is saved in the first place is a pretty big hill. Since standard Calvinist doctrine teaches one is regenerated before they are saved, that's plain heresy. But you pick your fights, I will pick mine.

 

Are Non Calvinist even saved then?

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1 hour ago, DaChaser said:

Are Non Calvinist even saved then?

You mean in the opinion of Calvinists? Probably depends on the Calvinists-many of them have severe disagreement as to what a true Calvinist even is, or over use of the term, often preferring "reformed", so it doesn't appear to follow a man's teachings, (even thought it does). I suspect many would say that someone who believes they have a choice in the matter, are not saved. I would say, if you are depending on being regenerated before you seek salvation, it might give a question of your salvation, since you are depending on something completely unbiblical to be your foundation for salvation.

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On 5/19/2020 at 1:15 PM, Ukulelemike said:

You mean in the opinion of Calvinists? Probably depends on the Calvinists-many of them have severe disagreement as to what a true Calvinist even is, or over use of the term, often preferring "reformed", so it doesn't appear to follow a man's teachings, (even thought it does). I suspect many would say that someone who believes they have a choice in the matter, are not saved. I would say, if you are depending on being regenerated before you seek salvation, it might give a question of your salvation, since you are depending on something completely unbiblical to be your foundation for salvation.

I am a Reformed Baptist, and my take is that they are saved by the same Gospel as I was, its just that they are not clear on what the Bible teaches it as being!

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Calvinism is not supported at all from Scripture. Calvinism is a philosophy which imposes its doctrine onto Scripture making it align with their own paradigm. They eisegete Scripture instead of exegeting Scripture. Let's call Calvinism what it is, heresy! It is a false gospel that backloads works making it a false gospel that will not save and cannot save! It is time we call a spade a spade. And no we cannot agree to disagree because the true gospel is on the line (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). When it comes to soteriology we cannot compromise and "eat the meat and spit out the bones", or "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater." It is time we take a stand against the heresies and false gospels of Arminianism, Calvinism, and Lordship Salvation that is a plague in the vast majority of churches today! It is sad when I can't find a good church where I live to go to because of compromising on the truth of God's Word. People care more about friendships in church than they do about the truth of God's Word! It is time for people to WAKE UP!!!

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18 hours ago, gracelife said:

Calvinism is not supported at all from Scripture. Calvinism is a philosophy which imposes its doctrine onto Scripture making it align with their own paradigm. They eisegete Scripture instead of exegeting Scripture. Let's call Calvinism what it is, heresy! It is a false gospel that backloads works making it a false gospel that will not save and cannot save! It is time we call a spade a spade. And no we cannot agree to disagree because the true gospel is on the line (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). When it comes to soteriology we cannot compromise and "eat the meat and spit out the bones", or "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater." It is time we take a stand against the heresies and false gospels of Arminianism, Calvinism, and Lordship Salvation that is a plague in the vast majority of churches today! It is sad when I can't find a good church where I live to go to because of compromising on the truth of God's Word. People care more about friendships in church than they do about the truth of God's Word! It is time for people to WAKE UP!!!

Calvinism explains best though just what the Sotierology proper of God was in saving lost sinners!

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19 hours ago, gracelife said:

Calvinism is not supported at all from Scripture. 

18 minutes ago, DaChaser said:

Calvinism explains best though just what the Sotierology proper of God was in saving lost sinners!

Well, the above two statements simply cannot both be true . . .

 

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12 minutes ago, DaChaser said:

True, will stick by my assertion, but will not divide over it!

Understood.  I, on the other hand, will continue to hold that Calvinistic/Reformed soteriology is false doctrine; and I WILL separate over it - at least over the two points of regeneration before faith and of limited atonement.

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3 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

There can be no truth in a doctrinal sense, if there is even one lie inserted. Brethren it is either truth or a lie, there can be no mixture of the two.

Galatians 5:9 (KJV) A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Secondary issue, as we should only separate over issues such as "is Jesus God, Did he physically resurrect, is the Bible inspired?"

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3 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Secondary issue, as we should only separate over issues such as "is Jesus God, Did he physically resurrect, is the Bible inspired?"

The original, sound Baptist Churches were turned from the way by false doctrine of every nature , just a little bit at a time until they were apostate. For me there is no secondary issue, it is truth or a lie, can't be both and will not be tolerated by me.

To "pick and choose"which lie to accept is walking on very dangerous ground. 

Ephesians 4:14 (KJV) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

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