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Totoosart

Satan does not exist!

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Greetings ūüôā

 

It's more than a year now that I have converted to Christianity and ever since I have been reading and trying to understand the scriptures as best as I possibly could.

I have posted many questions already and you have been more than kind to reply and guide me on.

I recall I had a question about Matthew 4:1:  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

And the problem for me was 'how could the Spirit of God lead the Lord anywhere 'to be tempted of the devil' unless they are working in harmony and cooperation!'

Unfortunately I did not receive any satisfying replies on that but I kept studying and reading more and thinking and pondering about this issue.

Now I have come to believe that God is all good and cannot possibly cooperate with any being as bad as the devil, so what is the answer to my question?

Well, the devil is in me, I am the devil, I make choices which are wrong and unrighteous, there needs no outside being to push me to do anything, because if I do not want to commit anything, nothing can make me, except my own will.

So I interpret the passage quoted above as: Then the Holy Spirit put Jesus Christ to the test of Righteousness in the wilderness of his mind!

Your kind comments and criticisms are very welcome.

I will God willing post more articles here, I have found a few resources that I am studying and I will try to share as much as I can with you and ask more questions which you will kindly be able to reply and guide me onwards.

Bless your hearts,

Totoo

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11 hours ago, Totoosart said:

Greetings ūüôā

 

It's more than a year now that I have converted to Christianity and ever since I have been reading and trying to understand the scriptures as best as I possibly could.

I have posted many questions already and you have been more than kind to reply and guide me on.

I recall I had a question about Matthew 4:1:  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

And the problem for me was 'how could the Spirit of God lead the Lord anywhere 'to be tempted of the devil' unless they are working in harmony and cooperation!'

Unfortunately I did not receive any satisfying replies on that but I kept studying and reading more and thinking and pondering about this issue.

Now I have come to believe that God is all good and cannot possibly cooperate with any being as bad as the devil, so what is the answer to my question?

Well, the devil is in me, I am the devil, I make choices which are wrong and unrighteous, there needs no outside being to push me to do anything, because if I do not want to commit anything, nothing can make me, except my own will.

So I interpret the passage quoted above as: Then the Holy Spirit put Jesus Christ to the test of Righteousness in the wilderness of his mind!

Your kind comments and criticisms are very welcome.

I will God willing post more articles here, I have found a few resources that I am studying and I will try to share as much as I can with you and ask more questions which you will kindly be able to reply and guide me onwards.

Bless your hearts,

Totoo

Read Job chapter 1 and 2. 

Satan is a real being referred to with personal pronouns, he speaks as a being does, he even has a destination.

Revelation 20:2-3 KJV
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
 
There is zero biblical evidence to say that Satan is not real. 
 

and its not that Jesus cooperated with the devil, Jesus simply allowed the devil to do things. I dont know why your getting so hung up on this concept. Where does the Bible say that God cannot interact with Satan? It doesnt.. you are ignoring hundreds of other passages of scripture simply because you have this unbiblical idea in your head that because God is good that means he cannot somehow interact with Satan. This is the root of your problem. Rather than explaining away hundreds of passages that clearly refer yo Satan as a real being I would admonish you to realize that there is an error in your¬†¬†presuppositions about God being good and therefore completely unable to ‚Äúcooperate‚ÄĚ with Satan.¬†

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Greetings, Jordan,

Thank you so much for your kind care and time.

i will study further, but you may have misunderstood me, or i may have not been able to express myself properly. i apologise.

In any case, i understand that the Bible is not an easy book to read, although it might seem easy to you, it is certainly not that easy to me, and i am an English language and literature scholar and Shakespearean. 

Thanks again for your kind time and care,

Wish you a blessed time,

Totoo

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On 2/7/2020 at 10:06 PM, Totoosart said:

And the problem for me was 'how could the Spirit of God lead the Lord anywhere 'to be tempted of the devil' unless they are working in harmony and cooperation!'

I advise caution until you have time to look more closely at the New Testament, here are a few verses you may want to ponder while you research your questions. God, that is Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son, was manifest in the flesh (John 1:14) for the main reason of sacrifice for sin (1 John 2:2). God does not tempt us (James 1:13). There were other reasons God appeared in the flesh, you are correct God and Satan are against each other and do not cooperate. One reason Jesus went into the wilderness was to provide us knowledge that our Savior and sin bearer understood our frailties and could have compassion and forgiveness of sin (Hebrews 4:15). 

 

On 2/7/2020 at 10:06 PM, Totoosart said:

Now I have come to believe that God is all good and cannot possibly cooperate with any being as bad as the devil, so what is the answer to my question?

You are on the right path here (1 John 1:5). Satan is not alone in his attack, he has the glitter of the world and our fallen nature to work with (James 1:12-15) gives insight. But, the greatest insight can be provided by a careful study of Satan's temptations used on Jesus Christ in the wilderness (Matthew 4:1-11). It was both an attack against Jesus physical body and against His mind, Satan is well aware of attack on multiple fronts. Satan uses very similar if not identical temptations on us today. We may be weary from the day's work and hungry, it's easy to become irritable, now a family member or friend wants our time, we need the car to help the family or friend, the car battery is dead, what are we to do? Jesus taught us what to do, with our breath, to utilize God's word--(Matthew 4:4). Hebrews 13:5 "Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." I only hope someday I will overcome all my temptations and respond the way Jesus did. May God richly bless your effort to become like Him.

Edited by 1Timothy115

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Dear friend, Timothy(?),

Thanks so much for your kind time and reply.

i'm glad to see that there are people who might come close and understand what i mean. Thank God for that.

Language is a barrier, one cannot ever truly express one's thoughts and feelings without the risk of being misinterpreted and misunderstood.

One of the miracles of the Holy Bible is that no matter who you be and no matter how much you know, you will be drawn closer to the Lord and admire Jesus Christ.

i am still studying and i am trying to be a good learner. As someone who has been teaching for about 40 years, i should know that a good pupil or student is the one who comes back from their studies with good questions and loads of them, too.

i am sorry if my questions may trouble some people, but better asked and put out than kept, answers will only come if one seeks them first.

i would like to suggest that if, as i have hinted already, we take the idea that our very own will and temptations are the devils in us, and apply it anywhere in the holy text of the Good Book it might also make more sense.

As an instance, when Jesus Christ prays:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.

When the Lord says: 'in earth', do you think he is talking about the planet Earth? Of course, it may make sense, but it makes more sense if we take it as a literary figure of speech, then it might suggestively mean, 'me!' We know God created Adam out of clay, Earth! So we might want to have the will of God come true in our bodies and souls as it is with the Lord up in Heaven.

Likewise, if we suppose that Devil is our unrighteousness and temptations to sin, it also makes sense in many cases that i have come to read, i am still studying, so i cannot bring all examples, but for instance we can recall the guy who lived in caves and our Lord Jesus Christ freed him of the 'legion' which went into the 'swine' and the swine fell off the cliff into the sea and died. Well, doesn't it make sense that our Lord blessed and graced this poor chap and forgave his sins and they vanished? Also his sins were seemingly as horrible as swine, see?

Or in the other cases that he relieves people of their demons, the Lord is simply forgiving their sins, and he says so, too, and they are blessed and graced with His kindness and mercy.

i cannot believe that the Lord God almighty could have ever created an angel who went astray, angels are not made to go bad, they have no choice, they are robot-like, no will, no A.I. nothing, but following the God's demands and orders.

On the same hand, God would not create something and if it went bad for any reason, keep it! Recalling the Flood! He got rid of all the bad people and animals.

Many such thoughts make me trust that if there is a devil or Satan, it's simply my own unrighteousness and bad faith.

Bless your hearts,

Thanks again for your time,

Totoo

 

 

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On 2/12/2020 at 8:40 AM, Totoosart said:

Dear friend, Timothy(?),

Thanks so much for your kind time and reply.

i'm glad to see that there are people who might come close and understand what i mean. Thank God for that.

Language is a barrier, one cannot ever truly express one's thoughts and feelings without the risk of being misinterpreted and misunderstood.

One of the miracles of the Holy Bible is that no matter who you be and no matter how much you know, you will be drawn closer to the Lord and admire Jesus Christ.

i am still studying and i am trying to be a good learner. As someone who has been teaching for about 40 years, i should know that a good pupil or student is the one who comes back from their studies with good questions and loads of them, too.

i am sorry if my questions may trouble some people, but better asked and put out than kept, answers will only come if one seeks them first.

i would like to suggest that if, as i have hinted already, we take the idea that our very own will and temptations are the devils in us, and apply it anywhere in the holy text of the Good Book it might also make more sense.

As an instance, when Jesus Christ prays:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.

When the Lord says: 'in earth', do you think he is talking about the planet Earth? Of course, it may make sense, but it makes more sense if we take it as a literary figure of speech, then it might suggestively mean, 'me!' We know God created Adam out of clay, Earth! So we might want to have the will of God come true in our bodies and souls as it is with the Lord up in Heaven.

Likewise, if we suppose that Devil is our unrighteousness and temptations to sin, it also makes sense in many cases that i have come to read, i am still studying, so i cannot bring all examples, but for instance we can recall the guy who lived in caves and our Lord Jesus Christ freed him of the 'legion' which went into the 'swine' and the swine fell off the cliff into the sea and died. Well, doesn't it make sense that our Lord blessed and graced this poor chap and forgave his sins and they vanished? Also his sins were seemingly as horrible as swine, see?

Or in the other cases that he relieves people of their demons, the Lord is simply forgiving their sins, and he says so, too, and they are blessed and graced with His kindness and mercy.

i cannot believe that the Lord God almighty could have ever created an angel who went astray, angels are not made to go bad, they have no choice, they are robot-like, no will, no A.I. nothing, but following the God's demands and orders.

On the same hand, God would not create something and if it went bad for any reason, keep it! Recalling the Flood! He got rid of all the bad people and animals.

Many such thoughts make me trust that if there is a devil or Satan, it's simply my own unrighteousness and bad faith.

Bless your hearts,

Thanks again for your time,

Totoo

 

 

The Bible does not teach that ‚Äúangels are not made to go bad, they have no choice, they are robot-like, no will, no A.I. nothing, but following the God's demands and orders.‚ÄĚ

 

on the contrary:

Jude 1:6 KJV
[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

God says there are certain angels that rebelled and are in chains being held until the day of judgment..

2 Peter 2:4 KJV
[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
 

Matthew 25:41 KJV
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 

Revelation 20:10 KJV
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 

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Friend I would admonish you to stop bending the scriptures according to your thoughts and let your thinking change according to the scriptures. You are making many statements that the Bible simply does not.

for example ‚ÄúOr in¬†the other cases that he relieves people of their demons, the Lord is simply forgiving their sins,‚Ä̬†

The Bible does NOT say that. 

 

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Greetings,

Thank you for your kind replies and precious time.

i will stop posting my thoughts on this site, since you do not like to hear my thoughts and are not willing to see how i worship the Lord and how much i adore his justice and righteousness.

That's the end of me here. i pray for you and all of you to have an open mind so that you could truly see how truly good the Lord is and how much we are far from comprehending His Justice and Good.

Cheers,  bless your hearts,

Totoo

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As long as your thoughts come from the Bible and are in line with what the Bible says, there should be no problem.

If the way you worship the Lord is in line with the Bible, there will be no problem.

But if your thoughts or the way you worship the Lord is NOT in line with the Bible, wouldn't you want to have that pointed out?

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Dear Dave,

When the first people who said the Earth is round and not the centre of the universe, what did the church do?

i'm just another guy thinking out loud.

As long as you don't want to hear, i won't tell!

Thanks for your kindness and may the Lord bless your hearts,

Totoo

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3 hours ago, Totoosart said:

Dear Dave,

When the first people who said the Earth is round and not the centre of the universe, what did the church do?

i'm just another guy thinking out loud.

As long as you don't want to hear, i won't tell!

Thanks for your kindness and may the Lord bless your hearts,

Totoo

Friend, this is sad. You are arguing from a position of human opinion. We have pointed out scripture over and over and yet the vast majority of your response is ‚ÄúI think...‚Ä̬†

my question is, on what authority does your ideas about Satan rest? Gods word is truth and it is the final authority and we are told :

2 Timothy 3:16 KJV
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

if the Bible clearly says Satan is a being, and that Angels chose to sin, on what authority do you say otherwise? I am not trying to be unkind but I am being straight forward with you. 
 

i find it troubling that you failed to really interact or even seem to acknowledge the scriptures that were shared with you, instead you just continued to lean upon your own flawed human reasoning. 

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Dear Jordan,

Thanks for being so kind.

i have no authority, i am nobody, hence the lower case whenever i type 'i', otherwise i know English language rules and grammar pretty well, sometimes much better than native speakers!

It is fine if you would like to take words at their superficial values and meanings,  but i was taught differently. You can close your eyes and stop thinking, that's fine, bless your hearts.

i have come to learn so much because of and from Jesus Christ in the very short time i have been blessed with His grace and converted to Christianity, not as a religion, but as the only way to salvation and peace, the best way of life.

i simply shared what i found out with you here, if you don't like my findings, fine.

i wonder what is so outrageous about this that you are all so upset, i am not fighting for Satan, if i say Satan does not exist, it doesn't mean that there is no evil in the world, but the source of evil is from people like me. i don't need help from a Satan to be bad, i have all the badness in the world within me. i am trying to fight it and be good, as the Lord is good. i'd like to become righteous, as the Father in Heaven is Righteous.

i wish Jesus Christ would touch me and save me from this evil within me and purify my soul. i wish the same for everyone around the world.

Bless your hearts,

Totoo

 

 

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Dear Jordan,

Thanks for being so kind.

i have no authority, i am nobody, hence the lower case whenever i type 'i', otherwise i know English language rules and grammar pretty well, sometimes much better than native speakers!

It is fine if you would like to take words at their superficial values and meanings,  but i was taught differently. You can close your eyes and stop thinking, that's fine, bless your hearts.

i have come to learn so much because of and from Jesus Christ in the very short time i have been blessed with His grace and converted to Christianity, not as a religion, but as the only way to salvation and peace, the best way of life.

i simply shared what i found out with you here, if you don't like my findings, fine.

i wonder what is so outrageous about this that you are all so upset, i am not fighting for Satan, if i say Satan does not exist, it doesn't mean that there is no evil in the world, but the source of evil is from people like me. i don't need help from a Satan to be bad, i have all the badness in the world within me. i am trying to fight it and be good, as the Lord is good. i'd like to become righteous, as the Father in Heaven is Righteous.

i wish Jesus Christ would touch me and save me from this evil within me and purify my soul. i wish the same for everyone around the world.

Bless your hearts,

Totoo

 

 

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" if i say Satan does not exist,"

You are denying the scriptures. But no one here is upset. We are just pointing out the truth in the Bible, in context. 

"i wish Jesus Christ would touch me and save me from this evil within me"

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

We want you to be saved too.

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You still have failed to really interact or even seem to acknowledge the scriptures that were shared with you, are still continuing to lean upon your own flawed human reasoning.

And by spreading false beliefs about Satan you are in fact helping Satan. 

And honestly what makes this so outrageous is your blatant disregard for the scripture you are being shown. If Satan can be allegorized and explained away then you can pretty much explain away heaven and hell and even the Gospel itself. 

Next thing we know you will be saying that hell is not a real place but is really just a metaphor for suffering we go through in life or something like that

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Dear friends, greetings :)

i am still studying and i must say there are passages in the Bible where it seems that the Father does in fact communicate in a very friendly way with Satan, a very good example is in Job, where, as it seems to my incomplete understanding, Satan is among the Sons of God.

Any way, i'm repeating myself here that all i am trying to say is that i need to take responsibility for my unrighteous and wrong behaviour. 

Bless you all,

Totoo

PS, the internet is very bad these days and many sites are blocked, so if i cannot get back to you, i am still receiving your kind comments and guidance by email and i am grateful.

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Folks, let's not forget that Totoosart is in China with no church to attend. Let's not forget his nationality. Let's not forget that he's doing the best that he can under those circumstances. He has reached out for help here time and time again. 

When I read some of the responses to him, it broke my heart. Like him, I read them as attacks on him instead of trying to help him.

I don't know him personally, nor do I know his heart...nor do I agree with his reasoning regarding Satan. However, none of us knew it all when we were first saved. I know that I didn't.

Let's not be so quick to attack.

Jordan, is that how you responded to the Muslims in Africa? I watched your video. I don't think they would have been so welcoming to you had you responded to them like you have here.

How about helping him instead of attacking him when he doesn't respond perfectly the first time or two.

Just my two cents for what it's worth...which isn't much.

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7 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Folks, let's not forget that Totoosart is in China with no church to attend. Let's not forget his nationality. Let's not forget that he's doing the best that he can under those circumstances. He has reached out for help here time and time again. 

When I read some of the responses to him, it broke my heart. Like him, I read them as attacks on him instead of trying to help him.

I don't know him personally, nor do I know his heart...nor do I agree with his reasoning regarding Satan. However, none of us knew it all when we were first saved. I know that I didn't.

Let's not be so quick to attack.

Jordan, is that how you responded to the Muslims in Africa? I watched your video. I don't think they would have been so welcoming to you had you responded to them like you have here.

How about helping him instead of attacking him when he doesn't respond perfectly the first time or two.

Just my two cents for what it's worth...which isn't much.

Brother, my approach is much different with those who name Christ and the lost who are without God.

I would contend that your criticism is very subjective. It is my understanding that the truth of scripture about Satan is blatantly being rejected in favor of human opinion and ideas. 

You may read them as attacks but I view them as contending for the faith. 

My responses are in zero way personal whatsoever. I am being bold here because I see this dear brother seriously mislead about Satan and it is dangerous.

Were it not for compassion for him I would not even be spending the time to give responses.

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Let's go back to the original issue at hand, the temptation of Jesus Christ

We're told: 

 

"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. " (Heb 4:14-16)

 Jesus went through that time of temptation, as well as other temptations through His life, many which I suspect we don't know of, in order that, though God, yet He might be able to be approachable to us, having been tempted as we were. Jesus was, and is, indeed, God in the flesh; yet He is also the Son of man, fully God but fully Human, else He could not pay the price for the sin of the world. Therefore He was tempted for OUR sakes, that WE might see Him, while as God, yet also as one of us, YET without sin. Could Jesus have sinned? The jury is still out on that-personally, I believe He could have, being all man, because otherwise, what comfort can we obtain in His being tempted, yet without sin? But I will not speak that dogmatically, and am certain there is some disagreement there. But the point being, Jesus HAD to be tempted, that He might be a fitting High Priest for us.

As for Satan, well, the Lord simply used him; Satan thought he was in control, but even at the end, Satan will only be able to do that which the Lord allows, and he will be stopped when the Lord deems the time for him to be stopped. There is no power but of God.  

I have been in this group for a long time, Totoosart, and I urge you, not to take their words as unkindness-they are all good folks, but we are all quite zealous for the Lord and His word. You are still new to Christ, in a place that is difficult for you to find good discipling-be patient and listen, because there are many, many years of walking with the Lord in this group. Be encouraged, hold tight that which is good!

   

 

   

 

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I certainly apologise if my response came across that way, for that was definitely not my intent.

I was simply trying to point out that the Bible, not our own thoughts, should be the prime.

Sorry if it came across as aggressive or mean. 

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