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Could Barack Obama be the Antichrist?


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Almost a year ago, my wife and I were watching Jay Leno and I saw Barack Obama for the first time. I remember being blown away by the way he spoke. I really liked the guy. I turned to my wife and said, "You know, I'd vote for him. Then again, he'd make the perfect antichirst." That was before I knew he was going to run for president.

Of course, was basing my accusation solely on this ability to catch the attention of the masses. The only two things I knew about him was that he was a great speaker and he spoke at Rick Warren's Church. That didn't impress me much, because Rick Warren will let ANYONE speak at his Church.

Anyway, long story short... currently he is preaching against religion. In a video I saw he used principles in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Matthew to show that being a "Christian" nation isn't the way to go. He said this is no longer a Christian nation, but a Buddhist Nation, a Hindu Nation, a Muslim nation, and so on...

The Bible says that the antichrist will not regard the God of his fathers or any God. It also says that he will think to change times and laws, and by peace he will destroy many. I know that books like Left Behind are not the most Biblically accurate books in the world, but I do believe the antichrist will be humanistic and charismatic as Left Behind and other end times novels and movies depict him to be.

Then again, there are certain principles that seem to push the other way. For example, the Bible says that the antichrist will have a desire for women. Obama is married, but that doesn't necessarily mean he desires women.

So, anyway.. your thoughts?

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The Bible teaches that the Antichrist will come out of Europe. That doesn't fit a US president.

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That's right, Jerry! The European Union (EU). And, the "false prophet" will come out of the Vatican. I am not going to place any guesses on who he might be?...Besides, all "true" born-again believers will be raptured out of here. :smile Thank the Lord! :bible::clap: :thumb

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Praise the Lord!
I believe the Lord is coming soon. Australia is really starting to decline. Even unsaved family members are beginning to see that what we have been warning them about for years is starting to happen. We are really praying for their salvation and using every oppurtunity we can get to witness to them. Even so come Lord Jesus! :clap: :amen:

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Hello...Lee-Anne! I am so happy to hear that about Australia! :clap: Unfortunetly, in the USA...we have some people who really want to fight the whole thing, for whatever reason. :sad

Yes...I believe the Lord is coming soon, too. When the last person on earth has heard the Gospel...He will come to Rapture us out of here. :thumb Then, we can all meet eachother. :amen:

candlelight

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Yes...I believe the Lord is coming soon, too. When the last person on earth has heard the Gospel...He will come to Rapture us out of here.


:puzzled: Are you referring to this verse:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The context of that verse is within the Tribulation period. That means that during those seven years the Gospel will go all through the world - but we will be gone before then. Of course, we should be doing what we can until that point to get the Gospel out - but we have no guarantee that we will get it everywhere (but God will during the Tribulation period - by the 144,000 Jewish evangelists and the angel that preaches the everlasting Gospel).
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Matthew 24 is dealing with the events within the Tribulation period; therefore that verse will be fulfilled in those seven years, not prior to them. When we compare that fact with Revelation 7 and 14, it makes perfect sense. The church is failing in its job of getting the Gospel out to the whole world - but the Lord will make sure it happens before He returns to judge the world/nations.

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Matthew 24 is dealing with the events within the Tribulation period; therefore that verse will be fulfilled in those seven years' date=' not prior to them. When we compare that fact with Revelation 7 and 14, it makes perfect sense. The church is failing in its job of getting the Gospel out to the whole world - but the Lord will make sure it happens before He returns to judge the world/nations.[/quote']

Thanks, Jerry! This clarifies a lot for me. I have never asked my pastor this question...and, if he went over it, it probably didn't sink in. Yes, it does make perfect sense...and, it is very sad, that the "church is failing in its job of getting the Gospel out to the world". :sad My heart breaks.

No need to answer this tonight...Jerry, but...during the Great Tribulation Period...that is the time for the Jews? Right? Is their any possibility that Gentiles will be saved, as the Holy Spirit will not be on earth? Any, possibility at all?

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Revelation 7:13-17 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

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Matthew 24 is dealing with the events within the Tribulation period; therefore that verse will be fulfilled in those seven years' date=' not prior to them. When we compare that fact with Revelation 7 and 14, it makes perfect sense. The church is failing in its job of getting the Gospel out to the whole world - but the Lord will make sure it happens before He returns to judge the world/nations.[/quote']
I'm sorry but I don't see that the Church is failing in it's call to get the gospel to the world. If anything the Gentile world is closing its "door" to the gospel. Which God affirms will take place here.
There will be no souls saved when the Church is removed as then the door will be shut by God just as God shut the doors to Noah's ark. Then came Wrath and no one was able to pry open the ark's door to gain safety from the flood. Remember, "As it was in the days of Noah".
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There will be no souls saved when the Church is removed as then the door will be shut by God just as God shut the doors to Noah's ark. Then came Wrath and no one was able to pry open the ark's door to gain safety from the flood. Remember, "As it was in the days of Noah".


Doesn't line up with the Bible. I just quoted Revelation 7. That shows 144,000 Jewish men getting saved after the rapture. Then the end of the chapter makes it VERY CLEAR that there will be people from all nations, etc. being saved. What 2 Thessalonians 2 teaches is that no one who knows the Gospel and rejects it prior to the rapture will be saved after the rapture - but it is a denial of the Word of God to teach no one will be saved. This passage also indicates there will be people saved then:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
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I don't think the Antichrist will be apparent until after we are out of the way. We may know his name as a general political leader, but I think we will be clueless until the rapture. The rapture is going to have this world at a standstill....everything will be paralyzed...the antichrist will have to be able to get past that and unify the world, making everything work again, which will have people responding with respect and awe globally.

I honestly do not think we as Christians will be able to definitively say "That's the Antichrist".

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I agree - we cannot identify the individual until the events unfold (and Christians won't be here then); however, I believe we can glean general descriptions from the Word of God.

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I agree - we cannot identify the individual until the events unfold (and Christians won't be here then); however' date=' I believe we can glean general descriptions from the Word of God.[/quote']


Right...we can say pretty much according to the Bible that Obama doesn't fit....but we won't be able to say "So and so is going to be Antichrist" because we won't be here when it happens, to know for sure. I do not think the Antichrist is going to have his persuasive powers until after the Rapture, as I think Satan will not have full control of him until after the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth by way of Christians.
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Taking all the passages together, Satan does not possess/indwell the Antichrist until the midpoint of the Tribulation period (when he desecrates the temple).

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Taking all the passages together' date=' Satan does not possess/indwell the Antichrist until the midpoint of the Tribulation period (when he desecrates the temple).[/quote']

Oh yeah, that's right.

Anyway I know he's gonna be a really persuasive guy but he won't need those powers until after the rapture. Basically my point. :-)
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There are some passages in Daniel 8 and 11 that refer to his persuasive abilities. Definitely, what you call a "smooth talker."

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Doesn't line up with the Bible. I just quoted Revelation 7. That shows 144' date='000 Jewish men getting saved after the rapture. Then the end of the chapter makes it VERY CLEAR that there will be people from all nations, etc. being saved. What 2 Thessalonians 2 teaches is that no one who knows the Gospel and rejects it prior to the rapture will be saved after the rapture - [b']but it is a denial of the Word of God to teach no one will be saved. This passage also indicates there will be people saved then:
I will respect your view more if you would remove your ruler and try not to make scripture line up in a particular way. I am not a liar and I am not denying God's Word nor have I set your view in such disrespect. What have I denied? Have I denied the return of Christ? No! Have I denied that there is going to be a period of tribulation? No! Have I denied that there is going to be a resurrection before tribulation? Yes! However that denial is not of Scripture. There is no Scripture that unequivocally states that We shall be caught up before Tribulation or before the Antichrist is revealed. There is Scripture that states that we are saved from Wrath and with that I state that we will be taken up before Wrath comes. Tribulation is not wrath and there is no scripture that says Tribulation is Wrath. Therefore there will be a period that is The Tribulation of the Saints and then the Rapture of the Church, then the Wrath of God is poured out on an unrepentant World. Even though the Lord sends out an Angel to preach the everlasting Gospel, no one repents. Rev 14 - Rev 16.
IF the Church is taken then you must ask these questions. What is their Salvation based in? Works? Sight? It will not be by grace through faith. These People are saved by the message of the Church. The Great Tribulation is not The Wrath of God. It is Tribulation of the Saints. The Church goes trough it and is taken before Wrath is come.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
This is the commission of the Church.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld' date=' and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, [b']of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Yes, all converts during the Great Tribulation. Not out of Wrath.

Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered' date=' saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, [b']These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Significant of grace and faith.
2Thess 2:3-12
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The falling away is the Antichrist coming out of the Church. He can not come out of what has been taken away.
1John 2:18&19
18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
John also warns us of deceivers. 2John 1:7-11
7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

The war against the Saints comes to fruition in Jerusalem as the Antichrist faces off with the two witnesses. These two men represent the Old Testament of Jesus Christ and the New Testament of Jesus Christ. Revelation 11:3-19.
Note now that the World is rejoicing in their deaths. Rev 11:10 They are so happy that they are free from the God of the Bible that they give gifts. This would be the Worlds new Christmas but for what God does next. verse 11
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. Victory is in Christ as the Holy Spirit raises them up. This is the dead in Christ raising first. Then comes the resurrection. verse 12
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven*. *However there is no record of them being saved.

Verses 14-19 takes place in Heaven and those 24 Elders are rejoicing because Wrath and judgment of God on the world is about to take place.
14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Note that the temple of God at the beginning of the chapter is in Jerusalem on the Earth and the Angel tells John to measure it. Now it is "opened in Heaven" in verse 19.
Fact is, we are the temple that is being talked of here.
1 Corinthians 3:16&17
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. The Antichrist is not defiling a temple at Jerusalem made of stone. He comes out of the Church and attempts to destroy the temple of which you and I are.
See also 1Cor 6:16

In all respect to you Jerry, I would appreciate that you would here-to-fore not accuse a fellow brother of denying Scripture just because he sees a different "line up" than you.

Your Brother in Christ;

Mel
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If you study Revelation, you will find it is a chronological account of what will happen during the end times. In chapter 3 or 4 (off the top of my head) John hears the voice of a trumpet and "Come up hither". Many theologians believe (and I agree) that this is actually the rapture, and thus begins John's account of things occuring after the rapture. "Come up hither" happens after the accounts of the churches in the final days...so it goes church age, then "come up hither/trumpet" then tribulation begins.

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If you study Revelation' date=' you will find it is a chronological account of what will happen during the end times. In chapter 3 or 4 (off the top of my head) John hears the voice of a trumpet and "Come up hither". Many theologians believe (and I agree) that this is actually the rapture, and thus begins John's account of things occuring after the rapture. "Come up hither" happens after the accounts of the churches in the final days...so it goes church age, then "come up hither/trumpet" then tribulation begins.[/quote']
Revelation 4
1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter. 2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

He was brought up to be shown what is about to be revealed to him. That is the context.

The context of being called up after the dead being raised is found in Revelation Chapter 11:11-13
11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Again context is the raised dead being told with an audible voice to "Come up hither".

In John's case the context was for him to see future events.
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Chapter one makes it pretty clear that the letters to the seven churches constitute the church age - then what happens in chapter 4 on is after the church age.

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

the things which thou hast seen - the vision of Christ in chapter one.

the things which are - the seven churches - ie. the church age.

the things which shall be hereafter - The tribulation period, the Millenium, eternity.

Look at this verse:

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Chapters 4 and five are what is going on in Heaven just after the rapture. Chapters 6-19 describe the Tribulation period. Chapter 20 is the Millenium. Chapters 21-22 is eternity.

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Chapter one makes it pretty clear that the letters to the seven churches constitute the church age - then what happens in chapter 4 on is after the church age.

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

the things which thou hast seen - the vision of Christ in chapter one.

the things which are - the seven churches - ie. the church age.

the things which shall be hereafter - The tribulation period, the Millenium, eternity.

Look at this verse:

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafterContext, context, context.

Chapters 4 and five are what is going on in Heaven just after the rapture I am sorry, just where did it say that?. Chapters 6-19 describe the Tribulation periodAnd the period of the out pouring of the Wrath of God. Chapter 20 is the MilleniumAgreed. Chapters 21-22 is eternityAgain I agree.


Why is it convenient to throw out the Church after Chapter 3. Where is the word that tells us this is so. You are speculating this to be so. Show me where it is written that the Church is gone after Chapter 3. Chapter 4, in context, is to show John the things future. While I have shown that Chapter 11, in context, is a resurrection and a Calling up by the clouds after persecution in clear 1611 KJV English. Then Heaven is opened up showing that all are there in the image of the temple.

Aside from all of that, we have this;
Revelation 22:16-19
16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The Word is telling us that the whole book is for us, not just certain chapters and verses but all of it.
These verses affirm that the whole book is to and for the Church(es), especially verse 16 should clear that up. For the life of me I do not understand why, God fearing men, do this to this book.
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Palatka, can you tell me, without assuming who the two prophets are, who in the context of Revelation 11 is being ressurected?? It does not say that it is the church being called up. It cannot be the Old and New Testaments, as they would not be "killed" and left in the streets. It is talking about two prophets. Who they are, the scripture does not say. But it seems clear to me they are two men. Not the church. And if they are not the church (which if you can provide scripture to prove they are, we can talk) then this is not when the church is taken up.

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Definitely those are the two prophets being raised...not the church. As a matter of fact, you cannot find the word "church" to describe anyone on earth after the church age ends at the end of chapter...3 I think that is...

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Palatka' date=' can you tell me, without assuming who the two prophets are, who in the context of Revelation 11 is being ressurected?? It does not say that it is the church being called up. It cannot be the Old and New Testaments, as they would not be "killed" and left in the streets. It is talking about two prophets. Who they are, the scripture does not say. But it seems clear to me they are two men. Not the church. And if they are not the church (which if you can provide scripture to prove they are, we can talk) then this is not when the church is taken up.[/quote']

Revelation 11
1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. First of all, John is instructed to measure the temple. This is a clear reference to the Church, (1 Corinthians 3:16&17
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. The Antichrist is not defiling a temple at Jerusalem made of stone. He comes out of the Church and attempts to destroy the temple of which you and I are.
See also 1Cor 6:16)
The temple is represented in both the Old Testament of Jesus Christ and the New Testament of Jesus Christ. Both testify of Christ. I do believe that these two witnesses are two men that represent both witnesses of Christ in the the Old Testament and in the New.
2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. For 2 1/2 years these two witnesses will wrangle with the Antichrist as is shown in verses 4-6.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Here we see that the testimony is finished. What did Jesus say? Matthew 24:14
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. The testimony of the Church is finished and the Antichrist is given authority to kill the two witnesses.
8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. The whole world is having a party because they think that the Church is the accuser of their sin. That is what these two are to them. Now they are free of them. They are dead and it is the new Christmas to the world. "At last peace and safety". Now comes "Sudden Destruction".
11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. The context here is the resurrection. Remember these two witnesses are the embodiment of the whole testimony of Christ as is the Old Testament and New Testament are.
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. Again, "Sudden Destruction".
14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Now after the resurrection of the witnesses everything switches to Heaven.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Now wrath is coming because we are saved from wrath. Wrath can only come when the Church is removed. In red you can see a reference to "Prophets and Saints" a direct pointing to the Old Testament and to the New Testament.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.Well, would look at that! The temple that John was instructed to measure in verse 1 is now in Heaven in verse 19. And lest there be any more doubt about what that is, it is shown as containing the ark of His testament. One temple, two testaments (Old and New). One Bride (temple/Church) and one Lord two witnesses.
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Definitely those are the two prophets being raised...not the church. As a matter of fact' date=' you cannot find the word "church" to describe anyone on earth after the church age ends at the end of chapter...3 I think that is...[/quote']
You can not find The word Church but you have many references to Saints and temple. Plus the fact that Jesus told John in Chapter 22:16-18
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
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Back to the OP...

Barack Obama is married and has children and he does regard or at least publicly acknowledge God (or a god).


Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

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P- John is in Heaven this whole time, therefore the temple must also be in Heaven this whole time. When he measures the temple, he is not on earth.

The issue here is that you are not taking Revelation literally, but figuratively. What guidelines do you use, when studying your Bible, as to whether or not to take something literally or figuratively?

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The fact that John is to measure the temple shows he is dealing with a physical temple, not a spiritual one. Also, Daniel, the Gospels, 2 Thessalonians and Revelation all refer to a literal endtimes temple that will be defiled by the Antichrist. It is not referring to the church because the church was a mystery not even mentioned in the OT.

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P- John is in Heaven this whole time, therefore the temple must also be in Heaven this whole time. When he measures the temple, he is not on earth.

The issue here is that you are not taking Revelation literally, but figuratively. What guidelines do you use, when studying your Bible, as to whether or not to take something literally or figuratively?

So the Beast and the dragon are literal? Are they not a man/nation and Satan being referred to figuratively?

First of all I humble myself and pray for guidance. Then I look for context when reading. For example the phrase "Come up hither." Taken as it is you then must ask, who is being told to come up? Looking at the verse, we see that it is being directed at John. John was called up, not John and the seven Churches of chapters 1-3, just John. What then is he being called up to? To see the things that are future events. Sense God is the only one that can see future events (because it is He that has ordained the future) John can not come into the presence of God in the flesh so for him to be in the spirit is very reasonable. We do know that while John is in the spirit here yet he does not stay here. He has a Revelation to to share with the Churches. Therefore he is there for one purpose, to get God's Revelation of Christ return and the events surrounding that return and bring it back to the Churches (as is affirmed in chapter 22).
Revelation 4
1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.
2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
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Right...some is figurative, some is literal...you compare scripture with scripture to figure out which is which. Jerry is right in how he is interpreting it because he is looking at the entire Bible to explain Revelation.

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The fact that John is to measure the temple shows he is dealing with a physical temple' date=' not a spiritual one. Also, Daniel, the Gospels, 2 Thessalonians and Revelation all refer to a literal endtimes temple that will be defiled by the Antichrist. It is not referring to the church because the church was a mystery not even mentioned in the OT.[/quote']
Thank you Jerry, for your gracious reply. Just as there are two witnesses there will be a temple at Jerusalem. That temple will not be built to house the ark of the covenant nor be a place that God will fill with His smoke. It is built for one purpose. Remember what happened at Jerusalem when Jesus gave up the Ghost? The Earth quake then the rending of the vale that closed up the Holy Place. That temple is no longer honored by God. He will never dwell in a building built by man's hand again. The purpose of the temple at Jerusalem is for symbolic use by the Antichrist. The temple that God is concerned about is the Church. That is the temple that John measures. I have shown that John has said that Antichrist comes out of the Church. 1John 2:18&19. Then Antichrist introduces himself to the world as God by allowing the Jewish temple rebuilt. The Jews will be given a time of peace so this can be accomplished. They reject him when he goes into the "Holy Place" (actually it is not honored by God as such, sense the vale was rent). The only "Holy Place" honored by God now is where His Smoke (Holy Spirit) now fills the hearts of men.

The two witnesses are the Church.

Did not the Children of Israel contain the Temple?

Did not the Temple contain the Word of God as Law?

Is not the Church containing God's Word?

Is not the Law now written in the fleshly tables of the heart?

Therefore the Church is the temple that is called up in Rev chapter 11.

Now ask yourself this.

Why would God honor a temple built with hands again when He tore it open at His Son's death? The thing not honored can not be desecrated because it has no value to God or man.

The thing honored can only be the Church. It is the only thing that can be desecrated.
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