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Roselove

Fornication and divorce question

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When Jesus says the only way you can divorce your wife and it be permitted, is if she commits fornication (either before or during betrothal, I suppose), is it a situation where the woman would be married to the person she had relations with, in God’s eyes (relations=marriage?) or was it not something that had to be done, but would be permissible for other reasons? 

Basically, what if the woman was truly repentant of her past actions and truly loved and wanted to be a good wife to the man. Would the man have to not be with her, to be in God’s will, because by God’s law, it would be forbidden, or is it something you can choose to do, if you decide that you can’t trust her or it was shameful in appearance or something? 

Also, is a marriage only legitimate if one of them is saved? I think I’ve heard that, but wanted clarification. 

I hope my question makes sense! 

Thank you

 

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I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you're asking about fornication and divorce.

Regarding marriage...my belief is that whether the couple are both Christians, if neither of them are Christians, or only one of them is a Christian...they are bound to one another in God's eyes. He ordained marriage without specifying the couple's belief system. There may be biblical and secular reasons for divorce..."but from the beginning it was not so." (Matthew 19:8)

If I'm wrong, I will both accept it and acknowledge it.

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Okay, thank you! 

In regards to the other question, I’m asking if it was mandatory to put the woman away for fornication or was it something they could choose to do if they just personally didn’t desire to be married to her anymore? 

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Relations do not equal marriage. 

God may have permitted this divorce ‘because of the hardness of their hearts’, as Jesus said, but we see fairly clearly that He hates divorce. I believe it’s safe to say that divorce is never mandatory in His eyes; if the union can be saved, He wants that. 

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“But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭7:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

What does this mean? Is it a sin then, for a non-virgin woman to be married to someone besides the man that had relations with her, first? 

Well, I also have read the virgin in regards to a woman can just mean “maiden”, too. So maybe I was interpreting it wrong. Not sure.

Edited by Roselove

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That specific section relates to Paul's opinion that it's  better to stay single rather than get married, but that in the end, it's not a sin to get married. 'Trouble in the flesh' is just a fact of binding two sinful people together (in that everyone is a sinner, not that those two in particular committed fornication). This passage doesn't refer at all to fornication and the consequences. 

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I've heard it so many times that it's considered"fornication" only premarital or during the "betrothal" period. But I know of three (3) families, baptists, in which the husband went to prison for molesting the children. If that isn't "fornication" I don't know what is. It would be so with an offending wife as well.. The Bible says ''except it be for fornication'';' otherwise, marriage is always holy and legitimate.

Edited by heartstrings

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On 12/20/2019 at 8:31 AM, heartstrings said:

I've heard it so many times that it's considered"fornication" only premarital or during the "betrothal" period. But I know of three (3) families, baptists, in which the husband went to prison for molesting the children. If that isn't "fornication" I don't know what is. It would be so with an offending wife as well.. The Bible says ''except it be for fornication'';' otherwise, marriage is always holy and legitimate.

That is so, horrible. That would be such a horrifying thing to learn of someone at your church, especially! 

Are you saying a person that’s ever committed fornication of any kind, isn’t allowed to ever be married, though? I still think it could be allowed if found out, but not sure if it would actually make the marriage, illegitimate? 

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Is there no room in the marriage room for mercy, repentance, forgiveness or grace?

For IBs to place marriage into a topic which is so hard and fast that all prohibitions and labels always apply actually gives Seventh Day Adventist arguments for an unchanging Sabbath validity.

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2 hours ago, Spd1275 said:

Is there no room in the marriage room for mercy, repentance, forgiveness or grace?

For IBs to place marriage into a topic which is so hard and fast that all prohibitions and labels always apply actually gives Seventh Day Adventist arguments for an unchanging Sabbath validity.

I fear this post makes no sense to me.

Mercy, repentance, forgiveness and grace are always available. However, none of the 4 have actually have anything to do with the consequence of sin.

You can have an affair, get aids, repent and beg for forgiveness from God and man, fully receive that forgiveness, but you still have aids.

Get drunk, drive and hit someone. Can you get forgiveness? Yes. Are you still going to jail? Yes.

Break the holy bond between man and woman set up by God. Will you be forgiven? Yes. Is there mercy? Yes. Are there still consequences? Yes.

I have counseled so many people over the years that although their cheating spouse gives grounds for divorce, they biblically may not re-marry. I've always been ignored. Always. Everyone of them has an unhappy, unfortunate second marriage today. One of those is my baby sister. Her second husband was an IFB pastor. Who had been divorced himself before salvation. He left his pulpit a couple of Sundays ago after the morning message where he "pastors" his IFB, KJV only baptist church , went home and told her out of the blue he wants a divorce.

Not every command or prohibition of God is easy. But they all bear consequences if ignored, reasoned and explained away.

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Weary Warrior, thank you for responding. Of course sin has consequence. Always. 
I grew up in a church that relegated the divorced/remarried to a back row. Regardless of their own guilt, they were branded and tarnished forever. Of course those who passed judgement were the gossips, strict legalisms and probably unsaved membership.

i am sorry you have never met a happily 2ndmarriage couple tho. I happen to be one of those. Ya see, I was a pastor, and I fell. That was 25 years ago. I have not preached since, nor would I. But I later did remarry, and we celebrate 25 years in a few months.

God has used me in other ways after my brokenness and repentance. Unfortunately for most of us IBs, we have historically branded our fallen with a giant A on the forehead, then taken them out and shot them.

And THAT extreme is what I refer to as the SDAdvenist line of reason for insisting on Sabbath worship.

 

Edited by Spd1275
Misspelling

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7 minutes ago, Spd1275 said:

Weary Warrior, thank you for responding. Of course sin has consequence. Always. 
I grew up in a church that relegated the divorced/remarried to a back row. Regardless of their own guilt, they were branded and tarnished forever. Of course those who passed judgement were the gossips, strict legalisms and probably unsaved membership.

i am sorry you have never met a happily 2ndmarriage couple tho. I happen to be one of those. Ya see, I was a pastor, and I fell. That was 25 years ago. I have not preached since, nor would I. But I later did remarry, and we celebrate 25 years in a few months.

God has used me in other ways after my brokenness and repentance. Unfortunately for most of us IBs, we have historically branded our fallen with a giant A on the forehead, then taken them out and shot them.

And THAT extreme is what I refer to as the SDAdvenist line of reason for insisting on Sabbath worship.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I have met happy second marriages, just not those I have counseled away from it. And I do not believe that happy constitutes right.

I do fully agree with you that a person who finds themselves in the position in life is not to be cast aside, and that God absolutely can use them, although not in the pastorate. I also fully agree that we in the IFB have had a general propensity over the years to shoot our wounded and fallen.

To me, one of the greatest challenges to face the church today is how do we find balance? Balance between standing uncompromisingly for Biblical truth, while maintaining grace for those who, like all of the rest of us, have come up short.

For example, it is just as unbiblical for some IFB pastor in Arizona (who shall remain unnamed) to preach God hates gays and that they can't get saved as it is to preach God loves everybody and gays are welcome in the church, unrepentant and unchanged. It's a drastic example, but I guess it illustrates (maybe) how my thought process runs.

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Finding balance is a difficult road because it requires us to practice Biblical Church Discipline. That is tough when your head deacon is “sharp” in his financial dealings, or when your church secretary (that everyone loves) is also Queen Gossip. It is simple to keep an LBGT out.

And we really need to get think Biblically. I suppose you are welcoming of ALL, but just as nit-picky as can be who is allowed to formally join and serve. And our problem likely originates in the 5 minute professions we rack up as we beat the doors of the neighborhood down. If a pastor has never been burned by some instant convert someone made a deacon the next week, then they just haven’t lived long enough.

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15 minutes ago, Spd1275 said:

Finding balance is a difficult road because it requires us to practice Biblical Church Discipline. That is tough when your head deacon is “sharp” in his financial dealings, or when your church secretary (that everyone loves) is also Queen Gossip. It is simple to keep an LBGT out.

And we really need to get think Biblically. I suppose you are welcoming of ALL, but just as nit-picky as can be who is allowed to formally join and serve. And our problem likely originates in the 5 minute professions we rack up as we beat the doors of the neighborhood down. If a pastor has never been burned by some instant convert someone made a deacon the next week, then they just haven’t lived long enough.

Yep. I welcome all through the doors, and all are welcome to sit and hear the truth. "They that are whole need not a physician, but they that are sick". However, it's takes a clear testimony of salvation, Biblical baptism and 3 months of faithful attendance to apply for a voting church membership. And public service in the church (music, teacher, deacon, secretary/treasurer etc.) are much more restricted. I consider church ministers of any kind to be much like a wife or a mule. A good one is priceless, but anything less is a $3.00 nightmare, and I'm better off without 'em. 🙂

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On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 11:04 PM, Roselove said:

When Jesus says the only way you can divorce your wife and it be permitted, is if she commits fornication (either before or during betrothal, I suppose), is it a situation where the woman would be married to the person she had relations with, in God’s eyes (relations=marriage?) or was it not something that had to be done, but would be permissible for other reasons? 

Basically, what if the woman was truly repentant of her past actions and truly loved and wanted to be a good wife to the man. Would the man have to not be with her, to be in God’s will, because by God’s law, it would be forbidden, or is it something you can choose to do, if you decide that you can’t trust her or it was shameful in appearance or something? 

Also, is a marriage only legitimate if one of them is saved? I think I’ve heard that, but wanted clarification. 

I hope my question makes sense! 

Thank you

 

Apostle Paul stated to us that God views the marriage between a lost and saved as legit, and that the believer must try to make it work out, but if the unbeliever decides to depart and divorce, that person now freed to remarry again a saved person....

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18 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Apostle Paul stated to us that God views the marriage between a lost and saved as legit, and that the believer must try to make it work out, but if the unbeliever decides to depart and divorce, that person now freed to remarry again a saved person....

14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

It doesn't exactly say "freed to remarry" does it?

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Fornication, simply, is any sexual act outside of the marriage relationship. 

On 2/5/2020 at 8:06 AM, heartstrings said:

14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

It doesn't exactly say "freed to remarry" does it?

Well, it DOES say the believer is not bound, (ie, the bond of marriage) to the unbeliever, which would naturally imply they are free to marry. 

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  I don't think it's MANDATORY that one divorce a spouse for fornication, but it's certainly not sinful to do so. I believe it's great if a couple can work out the prob & stay together, with no further transgressions, but, of course, it's not always possible, Christian or not. I know people who have gone down both paths.

 

  And I believe the non-fornicating spouse is free to marry someone else.

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On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 8:30 AM, robycop3 said:

  I don't think it's MANDATORY that one divorce a spouse for fornication, but it's certainly not sinful to do so. I believe it's great if a couple can work out the prob & stay together, with no further transgressions, but, of course, it's not always possible, Christian or not. I know people who have gone down both paths.

 

  And I believe the non-fornicating spouse is free to marry someone else.

Think that God would want to see 2 believers work it out if at all possible, but if not able to, the abused spouse free to divorce and remarry someone in the lord.

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