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         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Sola Scriptura

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robycop3
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  I am Sola Scriptura, as, doubtlessly, many other people here are also. That is, we believe that ALL our intel about God, & ALL His commands to us come from Scripture only, &  we don't believe any precepts or commands of worship not found in Scripture.

 

  Anyone who believes otherwise, can you  show us any other legitimate source of intel about God, or any of His commands not found in Scripture ?

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Robycop,

Here is one answer to your question.

Sometimes a person thinks the Spirit is speaking to him.  This could be valid if the message is confirmed by scripture.

Sola scriptura means we believe what scripture clearly says we should believe and try to do what scripture clearly says we should do. We try to not do what scripture clearly says we should not do.

A corollary of sola sciptura is that we are not bound by traditions that are not definitively required in scripture. This argues against patternism.  Patternism is the procedure followed by the churches of Christ.  They try to follow the patterns they see in the New Testament , even if such are not explicitly required, and try to avoid doing anything in worship they do not see in the NT, even if such are not explicitly prohibited.  Eg, using a musical instrument or having a rummage sale in the basement of the church.

Did i get that right?

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On 11/18/2019 at 5:10 PM, JimR said:

Robycop,

Here is one answer to your question.

Sometimes a person thinks the Spirit is speaking to him.  This could be valid if the message is confirmed by scripture.[/quote]

  Still refers back to SCRIPTURE. I don't believe the Holy Spirit teaches anything not found in Scripture.

Sola scriptura means we believe what scripture clearly says we should believe and try to do what scripture clearly says we should do. We try to not do what scripture clearly says we should not do.

A corollary of sola sciptura is that we are not bound by traditions that are not definitively required in scripture. This argues against patternism.  Patternism is the procedure followed by the churches of Christ.  They try to follow the patterns they see in the New Testament , even if such are not explicitly required, and try to avoid doing anything in worship they do not see in the NT, even if such are not explicitly prohibited.  Eg, using a musical instrument or having a rummage sale in the basement of the church.

Did i get that right?

 Seems so. Many churches  earn money thru sales, car washes, etc. and a great many have musical instruments played in them. If something isn't mentioned in Scripture, we should use our overall view of Scripture to see if something is right or wrong. For example, anything that has any dishonesty in it always involves lying, which we know is a sin. Same for anything using any deceit.

   I can't see anything wrong with honest money-making activities by a congregation. Nor do I see anything wrong with playing musical instruments as part of a worship service. After all, David was a prolific songrwiter and accomplidhed musician.  But we know what God had Paul write regarding these things: If it seems wrong to you, don't do it. but don't judge those who do.

MEANWHILE, BACK AT THE RANCH:

    Anyone have any argument against Sola Scriptura ?

 

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It seems to me that most believers are guided by scripture but in their hearts they feel scripture is confirmed by the Spirit.  Still, we know we cannot trust feelings.  John seems to acknowledge that perceptions of guidance and insight from the Spirit are real when confirmed by scripture.  We have two witnesses: scripture and the Spirit.  They confirm each other.

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Scripture  is the proof that the feeling is valid.  But without the involvement of the heart, how can we love Christ?

i call this Sola Scriptura, but others might disagree.

The following is copied from the Wikipedia article on Sola Scriptura. It shows that while some of the Reformers felt scripture is authenticated by the witness of the Spirit, some baptists would disagree.

Sola scriptura is a formal principle of many Protestant Christian denominations, and one of the five solae. It was a foundational doctrinal principle of the Protestant Reformation held by many of the Reformers, who taught that authentication of scripture is governed by the discernible excellence of the text as well as the personal witness of the Holy Spirit to the heart of each man. Some evangelical and Baptist denominations state the doctrine of sola scriptura more strongly: scripture is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter ("Scripture interprets Scripture"), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.[1] “

Edited by JimR
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5 hours ago, robycop3 said:

 This, of course, is phony as a Chevy Mustang.

You need to stop comparing spiritual things with earthly things. You did it before with a Ford and Corvette...and I showed a Ford Corvette. Now you're using a Chevrolet/Mustang...and here it is...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motor1.com/news/73910/watch-this-67-mustang-with-a-2500hp-chevy-v8-tear-it-up/amp/

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Psalm 19:1, Psalm 50:6 and Psalm 97:6. Think about it a bit before you just blow it all off. It's a scary thing to take a God that big and put him in a box we can easily wrap our head around, dictating what He can and cannot do.  He can reveal himself how He chooses. There were centuries where men lived without scripture, and there are still 1,000's of languages and dialects now with no "scriptura". God has been revealing Himself to those who seek Him since the beginning of time, in any little, dark corner of earth. And since the scripture tells us this, scripture itself seems to contradict "sola scriptura".

I always get a little hinky when I hear Latin trotted out and used to draw a big ol' line in the sand that scripture never drew. 

Sure, Rome is anti-Christ...just don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

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3 hours ago, weary warrior said:

Psalm 19:1, Psalm 50:6 and Psalm 97:6. Think about it a bit before you just blow it all off. It's a scary thing to take a God that big and put him in a box we can easily wrap our head around, dictating what He can and cannot do.  He can reveal himself how He chooses. There were centuries where men lived without scripture, and there are still 1,000's of languages and dialects now with no "scriptura". God has been revealing Himself to those who seek Him since the beginning of time, in any little, dark corner of earth. And since the scripture tells us this, scripture itself seems to contradict "sola scriptura".

I always get a little hinky when I hear Latin trotted out and used to draw a big ol' line in the sand that scripture never drew. 

Sure, Rome is anti-Christ...just don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/21/2019 at 7:17 AM, No Nicolaitans said:

You need to stop comparing spiritual things with earthly things. You did it before with a Ford and Corvette...and I showed a Ford Corvette. Now you're using a Chevrolet/Mustang...and here it is...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motor1.com/news/73910/watch-this-67-mustang-with-a-2500hp-chevy-v8-tear-it-up/amp/

 But FoMoCo didn't make that Vette nor GM make that Mustang.

  And JESUS often used analogies & compared Spiritual things with earthly things,  to help His audience understand the things He was speaking of. Shall we do any less ?

 

MEANWHILE, BACK AT THE RANCH...

  No one has ever shown me any credible source of intel about God from any source but Scripture. "Tradition", etc.  don't mean squat to me. I simply don't believe anyone's private interps of Scripture, any doctrines of faith/worship not found in Scripture at least by clear implication,  nor any of the modern "prophets" who stray from Scripture.  After all, the greatest REAL prophet of all, Jesus, repeatedly answered Satan with "It is WRITTEN..." & Satan had no answers.

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6 hours ago, robycop3 said:

 But FoMoCo didn't make that Vette nor GM make that Mustang.

  And JESUS often used analogies & compared Spiritual things with earthly things,  to help His audience understand the things He was speaking of. Shall we do any less ?

 

MEANWHILE, BACK AT THE RANCH...

  No one has ever shown me any credible source of intel about God from any source but Scripture. "Tradition", etc.  don't mean squat to me. I simply don't believe anyone's private interps of Scripture, any doctrines of faith/worship not found in Scripture at least by clear implication,  nor any of the modern "prophets" who stray from Scripture.  After all, the greatest REAL prophet of all, Jesus, repeatedly answered Satan with "It is WRITTEN..." & Satan had no answers.

No longer than I've been back on the forum, it's become very clear to me that no one can show you anything. Even from clear scripture. Your posts are written in such a way that you make a statement, then ask who dares disagree with you. Then refuse to consider the other side of any topic. Its pointless. You teach nothing, encourage no one and refuse to learn. Just always stirring things up.

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9 hours ago, robycop3 said:

 But FoMoCo didn't make that Vette nor GM make that Mustang.

Now you're making a statement that is more clear and concise.

9 hours ago, robycop3 said:

And JESUS often used analogies & compared Spiritual things with earthly things, 

Well, I said that you needed to stop doing it. Along with your disrespectful rendering of people's names in God's word, and your abbreviated hip-speak; your analogies fall short of their intended purposes...

9 hours ago, robycop3 said:

No one has ever shown me any credible source of intel about God from any source but Scripture. 

Actually, you've been shown (in this thread from scripture) that there are other sources...

Psa 19:1 KJV To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psa 97:6 KJV The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.

Rom 1:19-20 KJV 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 2:14-15 KJV 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Sounds to me like God says there are other sources...

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Hey Weary and NoNics, some bloke on here posted this in another thread, which is relevant to this subject also:

(It was here: https://onlinebaptist.com/forums/topic/27985-why-large-families/?do=findComment&comment=447673")

 

 

Quote

 

God will let Christian parents know in some way when enough kids are enough. His methods vary; the mom (or dad) may develop a medical issue, attention may be drawn to available finances & resources, or parents may know in their hearts they have enough kids.

   And the couples who produce  the children who are best-prepared for adult life have given each child enough ATTENTION.

  Remember, even a woman in her 40s still has about a thousand healthy eggs in her ovaries, and a normal man produces millions of sperm per batch of semen, so for most, fertility is no prob. That doesn't mean a couple should try to use every one of them!

 

  But let each Christian couple follow GOD in the number of children it has."

 

 

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4 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Now you're making a statement that is more clear and concise.

Well, I said that you needed to stop doing it. Along with your disrespectful rendering of people's names in God's word, and your abbreviated hip-speak; your analogies fall short of their intended purposes...

Actually, you've been shown (in this thread from scripture) that there are other sources...

Psa 19:1 KJV To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psa 97:6 KJV The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.

Rom 1:19-20 KJV 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Rom 2:14-15 KJV 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Sounds to me like God says there are other sources...

 Well, David knew about God from an early age, from his father. And those people mentioned in Romans knew there's A God, but didn't know who THE God is, unless taught by someone who knew Him, just as many American Indians knew there's a "Great Spirit", but didn't know who He was.

 

  As for my manner of speech, if you don't like it, well, that's just TOUGH. I don't tell you how to speak, & you're not gonna tell me. (or at least get me to heed.)

8 hours ago, weary warrior said:

No longer than I've been back on the forum, it's become very clear to me that no one can show you anything. Even from clear scripture. Your posts are written in such a way that you make a statement, then ask who dares disagree with you. Then refuse to consider the other side of any topic. Its pointless. You teach nothing, encourage no one and refuse to learn. Just always stirring things up.

  OK, then, Captain, please show us another credible source of intel about God-THE God, not just A god.

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5 hours ago, robycop3 said:

 Well, David knew about God from an early age, from his father. And those people mentioned in Romans knew there's A God, but didn't know who THE God is, unless taught by someone who knew Him, just as many American Indians knew there's a "Great Spirit", but didn't know who He was.

Which God was God talking about? Was it God, or was it a god? Where does it say that the people mentioned in Romans only knew about him as taught by someone who knew him?

Seems to me that God is speaking about himself...not some other god.

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Weary Warrior

Dr. Ruckman had a firm belief in the AV being the preserved word of God: Robycop does not.

Dave,

I really wanted not to comment in this thread for my own reasons. But, yes, the other 'bloke' really contradicted himself. In fact, it was a big contradiction

Edited by Alan
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30 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Hey guys, what about the guy I quoted from another thread who is clearly outlining a non sola-scriptura guidance?

Anyone got a comment?

 

Hard to comment on it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well...not really. 

I'm sola scriptura.

Until...

God will let people know in some way. His methods vary.

Hmmm...

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On 11/20/2019 at 9:20 AM, JimR said:

It seems to me that most believers are guided by scripture but in their hearts they feel scripture is confirmed by the Spirit.  Still, we know we cannot trust feelings.  John seems to acknowledge that perceptions of guidance and insight from the Spirit are real when confirmed by scripture.  We have two witnesses: scripture and the Spirit.  They confirm each other.

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Scripture  is the proof that the feeling is valid.  But without the involvement of the heart, how can we love Christ?

i call this Sola Scriptura, but others might disagree.

The following is copied from the Wikipedia article on Sola Scriptura. It shows that while some of the Reformers felt scripture is authenticated by the witness of the Spirit, some baptists would disagree.

Sola scriptura is a formal principle of many Protestant Christian denominations, and one of the five solae. It was a foundational doctrinal principle of the Protestant Reformation held by many of the Reformers, who taught that authentication of scripture is governed by the discernible excellence of the text as well as the personal witness of the Holy Spirit to the heart of each man. Some evangelical and Baptist denominations state the doctrine of sola scriptura more strongly: scripture is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter ("Scripture interprets Scripture"), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.[1] “

This "confirmation" is confirmed scripturally in 1 Co 2:10-13.  

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On 11/22/2019 at 8:49 PM, weary warrior said:

Psalm 19:1, Psalm 50:6 and Psalm 97:6. Think about it a bit before you just blow it all off. It's a scary thing to take a God that big and put him in a box we can easily wrap our head around, dictating what He can and cannot do.  He can reveal himself how He chooses. There were centuries where men lived without scripture, and there are still 1,000's of languages and dialects now with no "scriptura". God has been revealing Himself to those who seek Him since the beginning of time, in any little, dark corner of earth. And since the scripture tells us this, scripture itself seems to contradict "sola scriptura".

I always get a little hinky when I hear Latin trotted out and used to draw a big ol' line in the sand that scripture never drew. 

Sure, Rome is anti-Christ...just don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Then there is the obvious cf. in Ro 1:20.  It's kind of like how on stories of missionary trips you hear about people's conscience hearing of a Son who died but could not yet connect the dots until another is sent (Ro 10:15).

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