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Paul Christian

What are Your Thoughts on Effeminate Men in the Name of Christ

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As the world seeks to blur the lines between men and women, it seems that Christians are often found to be following suit with the world on this matter. Christians that seek to justify their position in doing this are often found to be toting a false bible version that blatantly changes God's words in order to make God Himself effeminate. In the KJV, Genesis 1:27 clearly separates the creation of man in His image from the creation of "them" as it pertains to the creation of two genders. Again, in 1 Corinthians 11:7, the bible clearly separates the man's creation in the image and glory of God from the woman, which is the glory of the man. 

i am now seeing men teach from the KJV that they are both created in the image of God. Christian churches, including baptists, have seemingly succumb to the idea that a Christ like man should appear to be weak, quoting verses of meekness. While, surely, we must come to Christ in meekness, as a little child, and entreat the brethren with such an spirit, is there no other attribute by which Christ is manifest, for what shall we say, that Christ beareth the sword and the key to hell in vein? 

What of the prophets of old, who were commanded to cry aloud and spareth not? Was John the baptist sought out by the multitudes for his soft raiment and easy words? Was he not a voice that crieth out in the wilderness? Are we to perform better in meekness than Christ Himself, sparing the volume of words which He spake concerning false prophets and teachers of hypocrisy? 

As for myself, I hear better when a voice is raised from the pulpit. My ears, which are dull at times, receive the message as if it were not a light thing. My heart is pricked by words as of a trumpet sounding, but when loud words out of context flow abundantly, I perceive that it is not right, yet when no words ever trumpet out from the pulpit, I perceive there to be no zeal, at least not according to knowledge.  

It is as though man was created in the image of God for the purpose of leadership. What do I perceive when I hear a woman preach, or her voice trumpeted in a congregation or a home? Is the man to remain silent, being held in obedience as if it were of the law? I've been to two baptist churches in as many weeks where the women gave the message, and when I spoke of it, was yelled at by women while the men remained silent.

I have encountered many men who would otherwise speak as men, but when speaking of the things of God soften their voice, and loosen their shoulders. They then speak in a smooth voice that can only be likened to that of a meek and mild woman. They can go from normal speech and demeanor to an instant smile of happiness and joy speaking in the voice of a woman.  If these men speak as such all of the time, it only fosters thoughts of doubt in me concerning their manhood. 

If a man turns this effeminate demeanor on and off, it appears to be fake, and if it is never off, it appears as sinful effeminacy. An effeminate christ has been promoted for centuries, beginning at least with Catholic idols and pictures of Christ with long flowing hair, and wearing a skirt rather than breaches. Even if we reject these idols and images as fundamental baptists, are we projecting a false image of Christ in our mannerisms? Do we err on one side due to fearful offense to others when another side of Christ is revealed? 

Is not wrath in His power as much as grace? If we speak of His wrath lightly, and quietly, who then shall hear us but those who have already heard? Who, being dull of hearing, shall see the fullness of the power of God through those who claim to have His spirit in them? Are we to cast off the spirit of Alias, John the baptist, or even Christ himself when he rebuked the false prophets, calling them vipers, and hypocrites with the the jot of exclamation? Do we speak of hell fire as much as Jesus did, being more than that of heaven? 

Jude 22  And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. If some have compassion, and some save with fear, who are those today which are saving with fear? If we all save with compassion only, what saith the Spirit of fear, or what saith you of it? What doth even nature tell you that a woman would most likely do? Would she tend to save with fear, or compassion? What saith even nature concerning the man in this matter? 

As God created man in His image, so therefor should men speak, and to that which God hath given unto the woman, let her also speak of it. 

 

God bless,  

 

 

Edited by Paul Christian

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Being around an effeminate man just makes my skin crawl.  But that's totally different from being "Meek". As Brother Jim says "meekness" is power under control. There were times like when the Lord physically drove the money changers from the Temple but another place where it says He "wept". In both instances He was "meek and lowly in heart". We need more weeping; we need more weeping from the pulpit too. There are times to "cry aloud" but there should always be love and compassion. Too many seem to think that being a man involves asserting authority and control when we should really do everything with the heart of a servant.

Edited by heartstrings

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Ok, to me the opening post is a bit confusing. 

Might it be clearly listed -- What specifically are the characteristics (by demeanor and behavior) that are specifically that of the female, by which the male should never be characterized?

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12 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Ok, to me the opening post is a bit confusing. 

Might it be clearly listed -- What specifically are the characteristics (by demeanor and behavior) that are specifically that of the female, by which the male should never be characterized?

I don’t have all the answers on what it means to be effeminate, because the Bible doesn’t go into great detail. It seems like something that we should understand by nature, which is getting harder to discern as we have all probably been influenced by the world to have a slightly skewed view.

I think that God wants us wearing clothes that are clearly different than women. I also think that men should speak differently, according to how we were created. As we know, a women should not be permitted to speak in the church, but rather be under obedience, as also saith the law. 
Speaking from humility and meekly is good for the man as well, but unlike the woman, not always. The men are not the weaker vessel, and thus are responsible for exuding the authoritative leadership role as it pertains to the image of God. 
 

If a man is not feared on some level, neither is he respected, especially by other men. A righteous man who preaches hard against sin causes other men to fear him, because they get a picture of God’s anger through him. It makes it real for them in a sense. 
If all they ever see is love, joy, and peace in a man, they know by nature what is common to man, and that there is something missing. A man should be angry, and not sin, but if he is never angry, then there seems to be something wrong. 
There certainly are men out there who sound and act like a homosexual man, but are not. Certainly that is the clear sinful effeminacy mentioned in the Bible.

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3 hours ago, Paul Christian said:

If a man is not feared on some level, neither is he respected, especially by other men.

Bible reference for this please?

Actually Bible reference for any of it please?

(And note that I am not necessarily saying any part of what you are saying is wrong, but EVERYTHING we do need to be Bible based.)

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6 hours ago, DaveW said:

Bible reference for this please?

Actually Bible reference for any of it please?

(And note that I am not necessarily saying any part of what you are saying is wrong, but EVERYTHING we do need to be Bible based.)

I would say Romans 13. I would say that our fathers, pastors, police, judges, and even military, should be people who are respected with some level of fear, and women should not play a role in any of these. We should fear these people because of the power they have, both physical and spiritual, which is given of God.

Did Paul not rebuke those which he called his children, even unto threatening to bring a rod with him when he came? No matter the nature of the rod, it was a tactic of fear. 
He who spareth the the rod hateth his son. 
1 Peter 3 tells the women to have a meek and “quiet” spirit, but not the men. Isaiah 58:1 is an example of a man preaching against sin, and God sent the prophets to many nations to do so. 
Obviously, there is a balance to be kept, but the balances should be leveled. There is much more negative to preaching the whole council of God than there is positive. 


 

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2 hours ago, Paul Christian said:

I would say Romans 13. I would say that our fathers, pastors, police, judges, and even military, should be people who are respected with some level of fear, and women should not play a role in any of these. We should fear these people because of the power they have, both physical and spiritual, which is given of God.

Did Paul not rebuke those which he called his children, even unto threatening to bring a rod with him when he came? No matter the nature of the rod, it was a tactic of fear. 
He who spareth the the rod hateth his son. 
1 Peter 3 tells the women to have a meek and “quiet” spirit, but not the men. Isaiah 58:1 is an example of a man preaching against sin, and God sent the prophets to many nations to do so. 
Obviously, there is a balance to be kept, but the balances should be leveled. There is much more negative to preaching the whole council of God than there is positive. 


 

That's why we are to study the whole Bible. Because many other scriptures do and, like I said above, the Lord is meek too.  https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=meekness&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

There is a time for "the rod" and a time for "meekness": but a steady diet of just one of the two is very unhealthy.

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9 hours ago, Paul Christian said:

I would say Romans 13.

What verse?

Remember that you suggested that fear AS WELL AS respect are required.....

So which verse supports that?

I can't see anything in Roman's 13 that stands out as saying what you are saying, so help me out a bit here.

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44 minutes ago, DaveW said:

What verse?

I suppose in regards to the Christian, towards other men, fear is on the part of the servant who has not been perfected by love. We see fear from young Christians towards Paul and Timothy when they had to be corrected and also when the servant was instructed by the Apostles to fear their master or men the government in general. However I do not see fear of any man as being a good attribute in scripture. For the perfected Christian, who is not motivated by fear of man but rather only of God. Some verses that come to mind would be...

Romans 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

2 Corinthians 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Colossians 3:22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

1 John 4:17-18 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Edited by John Young

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Who has been made complete, or perfect? I certainly have not, because I have not been resurrected, only Christ has as the first fruits of the resurrection. My spirit cannot sin, yet I have a flesh that cannot be made complete until the resurrection. Because of my flesh, I do that which I ought not, and what I ought, that I do not, therefor it is not I, but sin which dwells in my members. 
Because of this, God has appointed rulers over me who bear not the rod or the sword in vein. 
I do not understand why Christians don’t think that this applies to them, as if being saved makes them sinless in the flesh, and negates God’s law when their flesh sins. 
God did not give us the “spirit” of fear, but He did give us the powers that be to scourge the flesh. Should we say that God does not chasten and scourge every son which He receiveth with the powers that He put in place? Why would we not fear those powers themselves, when they are the flesh that scourges flesh? 
When people say that you have to repent of your sin and live a good life to be saved, they have the same problem as people that think all fear is bad. They both fail to understand that he that is born of God doth not commit sin, for His seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin. 
That seed is not subject to fear, nor is a spirit of fear, but our members which sin should fear the higher powers. Those powers are supposed to be “men”, who were created in the image of God for such a purpose, not women. The law bounds the woman in obedience to the man, and when the man looks and sounds like an obedient woman he is not right with God. Even nature tells us that it is a shame unto a man to have long hair, and the woman’s hair is given for a covering. Our heads are not supposed to be covered, and our voices are not to be silenced in the congregation. 
Itching ears seek for a soft voice, and when the man of God provides it, it won’t be long before the woman is speaking in the congregation, because there is so little difference.
 

I’m not listing all the scripture because I have been out of town going to a good church, and have to use my phone. 

Edited by Paul Christian

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I would like to say that fear, honor, and respect are all synonyms of one another in the Bible. I don’t view “fear” as meaning “shaking in your boots” here, although you certainly can find that in the Bible. I fear my pastor because he is a righteous man put in authority that I know will rebuke, correct, and exhort me if needs be, and he has tools that could go as far as exposing my sin before the congregation, or even kicking me out of church. His authority is from the Lord, but he is the one who would do it.

Our government is becoming a terror to good works, but by and large, they still bear the sword for me if I were to be tempted to break a righteous law. I do not have a spirit of fear toward them, but if sin were to lay at the door, I would fear them, just as I would my earthly father, or a pastor in authority over me. 
This is a good fear to have available to my flesh. When my members betray my spirit, God has provided for an earthly solution, that has nothing to do with my eternal life.

I am blessed with a wife who fears God, and seeks to be in quit obedience even unto her husband, but in our culture today, hard preaching from the pulpit is ultimately what settled it for her. Hard preaching without apology is what drove it home for her, and she has great respect for those preachers. The soft preaching on it, that was usually accompanied with an almost apologetic dialogue, never drove it home for her until it was preached hard without apology. 
I have no doubt that hard preaching is what many people need, and will prick the hearts of the hearers even unto being fearful of disobeying. 
Soft voices do not penetrate thick skulls. When people hear righteous indignation protruding from the man of God, created in His image, it can move God’s people toward repentance. 

Edited by Paul Christian

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On 11/10/2019 at 1:34 PM, Paul Christian said:

If a man is not feared on some level, neither is he respected, especially by other men

No sorry - YOU are the one who distinctly separated fear and respect, and now you are being evasive when asked to support your proposition with Scripture.

It shouldn't be that hard if it is biblical.

 

Verses to support your claim please.

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10 minutes ago, DaveW said:

No sorry - YOU are the one who distinctly separated fear and respect, and now you are being evasive when asked to support your proposition with Scripture.

It shouldn't be that hard if it is biblical.

 

Verses to support your claim please.

Yeah, you are correct. There is no scripture. It was all just my own understanding.

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49 minutes ago, Paul Christian said:

Yeah, you are correct. There is no scripture. It was all just my own understanding.

So for asking for Scripture to back up your statements, I get no scripture, but I do get sarcasm??????

Really?

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As someone who loved, lived, and breathed "hard preaching", I can attest that for me personally (and my wife), it became tiresome after a couple of years of it and left us wanting.

I could give my thoughts on it, but I won't...there are too many rabbit trails that it could lead to.

I've sat under all types of preaching...the type that has helped me the most is expository preaching. Pastors should preach the word, and that covers everything...from "hard preaching" to "soft preaching". As Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 3 (and he was pretty wise)...

Quote

1  To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

 2  A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

 3  A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

 4  A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

 5  A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

 6  A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

 7  A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

 8  A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

...and "time" includes preaching to the church.

Edited by No Nicolaitans

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1 hour ago, No Nicolaitans said:

As someone who loved, lived, and breathed "hard preaching", I can attest that for me personally (and my wife), it became tiresome after a couple of years of it and left us wanting.

I could give my thoughts on it, but I won't...there are too many rabbit trails that it could lead to.

I've sat under all types of preaching...the type that has helped me the most is expository preaching. Pastors should preach the word, and that covers everything...from "hard preaching" to "soft preaching". As Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 3 (and he was pretty wise)...

...and "time" includes preaching to the church.

If someone screams and yells the whole sermon, that would get tiring really quickly. Hard preaching to me is just preaching the Whole council without apology, and when appropriate, showing some righteous indignation. 
I’ve heard a lot of preaching over the years on Eph 5:22-24, and if they expounded on it at all, it was to excuse it away with vs 21. Hard preaching would simply make a dominant woman in the church want to either leave or know that God is really not happy with her. If the preaching works, and is complete, the church would be full of men fulfilling their roles as leaders in the home and in the church rather than being less of a man because of their wive’s offense and behavior toward them.

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23 minutes ago, Paul Christian said:

If someone screams and yells the whole sermon, that would get tiring really quickly. Hard preaching to me is just preaching the Whole council without apology, and when appropriate, showing some righteous indignation. 
I’ve heard a lot of preaching over the years on Eph 5:22-24, and if they expounded on it at all, it was to excuse it away with vs 21. Hard preaching would simply make a dominant woman in the church want to either leave or know that God is really not happy with her. If the preaching works, and is complete, the church would be full of men fulfilling their roles as leaders in the home and in the church rather than being less of a man because of their wive’s offense and behavior toward them.

Preach the whole counsel, yes. and doing so, preach to BOTH genders ant the same time, ALWAYS. That way, you're getting the truth out without singling anyone out. Know what I mean? And if the following scripture is implemented and obeyed, the "aged men" will set their example and the "aged women" will teach the younger. This is why, IMO, a good start would be in not having "mixed" Sunday school classes and let those "aged" folks with all their knowledge and experience, teach the younger folks, in keeping with what the Bible says.

Titus 2 King James Version (KJV)

But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.

In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

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I'm sorry for going off topic, but I would like to interject:  If a pastor, or any other man wants a woman to do something; the right way is to come to her HUSBAND first.

 

To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Edited by heartstrings

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7 hours ago, DaveW said:

So for asking for Scripture to back up your statements, I get no scripture, but I do get sarcasm??????

Really?

No, really. There is no scripture I can give you that directly correlates fear with honor and respect toward men. Fear God, honour the king, does not mean to fear the king.  

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26 minutes ago, Paul Christian said:

No, really. There is no scripture I can give you that directly correlates fear with honor and respect toward men. Fear God, honour the king, does not mean to fear the king.  

The word "respect: is not used in this scripture but the idea or principle is there. We are to respect or "be subject to" the "power", vested in certain men, that God has ordained. The only time we are to "fear" is when we do evil.

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

 

Edited by heartstrings

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54 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

Preach the whole counsel, yes. and doing so, preach to BOTH genders ant the same time, ALWAYS. That way, you're getting the truth out without singling anyone out. Know what I mean? And if the following scripture is implemented and obeyed, the "aged men" will set their example and the "aged women" will teach the younger. This is why, IMO, a good start would be in not having "mixed" Sunday school classes and let those "aged" folks with all their knowledge and experience, teach the younger folks, in keeping with what the Bible says.

Titus 2 King James Version (KJV)

But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.

In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

The kind of hard preaching that I appreciate is expounding on Deut 22:5, and not leaving out the women. If a pastor preaches what a man's garment is, then the women will be wearing skirts and dresses, and not breaches. Hard preaching on 1 Cor 11:14, 15 produces a congregation where the women are ashamed to have short hair, or the men having long hair. Hard preaching on Romans 10:13-15 causes the congregation to actually go out and give the gospel to the lost. I visited a church in Vancouver Wa this weekend and went to their Saturday and Sunday soul winning times. Barring some visitors from out of town, I believe that 90% of the congregation went out soul winning, and they have a third weekday time. In total, there were 60-70 soul winners going out, including the children. I have seen 12 year old's knocking doors and giving a complete gospel presentation. 

A church like that just makes you feel alive and useful. When those 80-90 people sing the hymns, I could barely hear my own singing, when I was singing as loud as I could without losing my voice. My wife loves it, because she isn't the best singer, and can cry aloud while singing without being self conscious. 

My wife gave up wearing pants due to hard preaching of the word that helped move her to change. It took her some time, but I didn't have to say a word to her. Just hearing the preaching and going to a church full of women in dresses was enough for her to act on her own. When we went to a baptist church where the women spoke to the congregation, she was set back by it, and didn't like it. I truly believe that these changes in her were due to the fear of God to disobey these commandments, or to disagree with what God calls an abomination, but that fear was prompted by preaching. 

We were invited to a church couple's house for dinner Saturday night. The husband is leading their nursing home ministry. The women toiled in the kitchen while the men spoke of leadership in ministry, as the church is sanctioning me starting a nursing home ministry where I live. Although I didn't realize it while there, in retrospect, I realize that the men and the women were doing by nature what God created them to do, without some rigid plan for the evening. 

While going soul winning, the men were setting up the maps and pairing people together. They had a little confusion during the process. I brought it up with my wife on the three hour drive home. She told me that her and the ladies that she was paired with didn't understand why they were doing it that way, because it didn't make sense. I agreed with them, but even I did not argue with the men leading it, and the ladies had a conversation later about it, talking about how they don't get to correct the men, and just have to do whatever they are told. Not as a bad thing, but as a right thing. 

I just don't see this kind of church happening without a firm hand on doctrine through hard preaching. Maybe it does, but I have not seen it. 

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3 hours ago, heartstrings said:

The word "respect: is not used in this scripture but the idea or principle is there. We are to respect or "be subject to" the "power", vested in certain men, that God has ordained. The only time we are to "fear" is when we do evil.

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

 

"fear to whom fear, and honour to whom honour". I should have read the chapter I quoted. 

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29 minutes ago, Paul Christian said:

"fear to whom fear, and honour to whom honour". I should have read the chapter I quoted. 

What goes wrong, in a church setting, is when some let the "fear and honour" turn in to "control".

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1 hour ago, heartstrings said:

What goes wrong, in a church setting, is when some let the "fear and honour" turn in to "control".

A church only has authority over what happens in church, but screwed up people tend to get better when the church does it's job. I disagree with marriage counselling in the church, because everybody has a bible, and it doesn't take long to point out the verses that should be sounded from the pulpit. They will either obey the bible or not. I have seen many defeated men in churches over the years. Their wives like to say that they had to take control because their husbands won't. The reality was that the woman would end the marriage if the husband stepped up. I've seen the women leave as well. When God doesn't allow remarriage while the spouse is alive, the men are faced with being defeated in their home, or being single until she dies. A man cannot assert his authority when the wife is not in obedience to God. He can only pray and wait. I've seen pastors get deep into people's personal lives in the process of marriage counselling, and because they would not preach and teach hard on God's family structure, it ended poorly, and with the church leadership stepping into the marriage where they ought not, even counselling the wife separately. I looked at it like the church leadership was committing spiritual adultery with another man's wife, because the man is the head of his wife, not leaders in the church. This was a non-denom church, but I'm sure baptists are not immune. 

I am remarried, and I know what it was now to remarry now, but I am blessed with a Godly wife and a life lacking the strife that I have seen and endured, and it is undeniably due to hard, biblical  preaching, and having a common purpose in life that is well defined. 

I've seen women lead their husbands out of church when they heard things that they didn't like as well. You can mark that man as defeated. 

Edited by Paul Christian

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