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  I know that some branches of Amish don't believe one is saved while here on earth, but if one lives the Amish lifestyle faithfully enough, he/she MIGHT be saved by Jesus after death. I'm wondering if there are any actual Amish who believe the TRUE GOSPEL of Jesus? (I know some Mennonites do.)

   Also, there's NO Scriptural support for living primitively. After all, God said that in the end times, knowledge shall increase.

  So, evidently, the Amish don't believe a lot of the Bibles they use, generally the German Martin Luther version, or the KJV and NIV in English. All those versions have the TRUE Gospel in them.

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Do the Amish live simply because they believe it will somehow work towards their salvation, or because they are choosing to eschew the temptations of the world? There's nothing wrong with the second option (albeit one can probably eschew temptation while still utilizing some modern conveniences). It's not really a spiritual issue - after all, there's no Scriptural support for not living simply either.  The statement that 'knowledge shall increase' is merely a statement of fact, not direction for living. 

 

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  There are a number of Amish in my 'hood. they are the ones who told me of their beliefs about salvation. From what I gather, their brand of salvation is entirely works-based.

  To their credit, they've never tried to "convert" anyone around here to their way, but they really need to hear the TRUE Gospel.  What they have now is based upon the beliefs & theories of their founder, Jakob Amman, from whom they derive their name.

  Far as I'm concerned, they're not some kind of "super-Christian", but are just another quasi/pseudo-Christian cult.

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How did a-mish, I mean I miss, this thread?

It isn’t the fact that they try to live without modern technology, it is that they enforce it as a rule (whether of salvation or as a way of acceptance in their society - going against these man-made rules gets you shunned by their community). Either way it is bondage and legalism and goes beyond the bounds of Scripture. From what I know of them, this is a hindrance to them accepting salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ solely by grace through faith. I have met many old school mennonites that are the same way. Not all are though - unfortunately, now many contemporary mennonites are now embracing ecumenicalism and every heresy under the sun. Praise the Lord for those who are truly saved and clinging to God’s Word (to whatever extent they are being faithful to it - of course, if they fully embraced/believed the Scriptures, they would be Baptists! I say that as a reality - in regards to doctrinal beliefs, not their names, as I believe the Baptist Distinctives are Biblical.)

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  there are several branches of Mennonites as well. Some are as apostate as Muslims, but the ones around here that I've spoken with seem to believe the Gospel and in salvation by faith.

  They're named after Menno Simons (1492-1561) of Friesland, now part of The Netherlands, a RCC priest who became an Anabaptist. Most believe in salvation thru Jesus, the Bible's authority, adult baptism, and the Holy Trinity. They correctly believe that LGBTQ people can be saved if one renounced that lifestyle as part of repentance. (But unfortunately, some Mennonite pastors conduct LBGTQ weddings!) And, they do have more than one openly-gay pastor. (Depends upon the branch. Most do not accept this.)

  Their heterodox beliefs & practices include no military service nor fighting, period, no holding political office nor voting,  & swearing of oaths, (but never deliberately lying in the slightest). Some branches dress as Amish do, as well as often using horse-drawn buggies (but not all the time), which often gets them confused with Amish.

 

  If one is considering becoming a Mennonite, I strongly recommend one to check out the beliefs & practices of the group they're considering. Remember, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT SINFUL TO BE IN THE MILITARY, NOR TO DEFEND ONE'S FAMILY, PROPERTY, OR SELF! Nor is it sinful to vote or hold political office.  Those are MAN-MADE rules & should be disregarded by all Christians.

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  To me, "apostate" means rejecting a religious system, and Muslims certainly reject Christianity, some of them to the point of murdering Christians for being Christians. I believe most Muslims know the Gospel exists, but they don't believe a word of it.

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Shouldn't really make up your own meanings to words.....

That is what most of the cults do - they make up their own definitions for words and then say they agree with you. (Applying their own definition)

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We have many Mennonites in our area, and we are friends with some. In fact, we just visited them, as they have a bunch of commercial-sized greenhouses and they grow and sell plants-we just bought stuff for our garden. We also buy hay from them when we have goats, because they deliver. very nice folks, prayed a lot for my wife when she was in the hospital recently, and they were so tickled to see her back recently.  We haven't much talked faith with them as our visits are usually quick and busy, but I know they keep gospel signs all over their property. The only issues I would have with them is the demands on clothing, men must wear suspenders and women the cape dresses and bonnets, but these are clearly issues of freedom, if they are okay with them, and not a sin issue.  One day I would like to get them when not too busy to speak on things spiritual.

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  As I've said before, all MAN-MADE rules of faith/worship should be ignored by all REAL Christians. Most Amish branches are chock-full of them, as are several Mennonite branches.

  A while back, some  Mennonites asked me about IFB beliefs, & I told them that my particular IFB church, while not speaking for ALL IFB churches, accepts ONLY THE BIBLE as its SOLE authority on earth in all matters of faith/worship, & believes nor follows ANY MAN-MADE RULES of faith/worship. One asked me "why?" & I replied, "Why NOT? Does any MAN actually speak for GOD?" They asked no more questions.

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  I saw recently that a coupla Amish men fled on foot from the cops who were pulling over their buggy for erratic steering. The men left behind evidence they'd been drinking alcohol heavily in their buggy. Now, the cops are stuck with the buggy & horse for now. (I don't know what branch of Amish they are.)

  OTOI, I have a friend who just had a home partially built by Amish. They built all the framework & installed all the doors & inside walls, as well as the roof & outside walls. They paused while infrastructure for electrical & plumbing/sewage was installed by other contractors. Then, they finished.

 They were brought to work in trucks each AM & picked up by the same trucks each eve. Using all hand tools, their work was of the highest quality. Their price was more-than-fair.

 

  Unfortunately, they're among the hardest people to lead to Christ. I've had more success with moonies and Moslems.  Hard to change people who believe they're already saved !

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On 4/30/2019 at 2:47 AM, robycop3 said:

  To me, "apostate" means rejecting a religious system, and Muslims certainly reject Christianity, some of them to the point of murdering Christians for being Christians. I believe most Muslims know the Gospel exists, but they don't believe a word of it.

I have to disagree with the idea that most Muslims know the Gospel exists. Maybe I would agree with you that Muslims who live in secular  countries where Christianity is the belief of the majority of its citizens - and have a better chance or hearing or told the Gospel.

As I’m sure you know, most Islamic countries are not religious “friendly” when it comes to any kind of evangelism. Even if the country allows Christians to worship there are strict laws against them attempting to convert a Muslim. 
 

If you ask a Muslims if he believes the Gospel, they will say YES we believe in the Injeel (Arabic for Gospel) that Jesus brought, but they are talking about something COMPLETELY different than what we would define as the Gospel. All Muslims will affirm that they believe in the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel but they are not referring to what is in our bibles. They are referring to a lost “unperverted” text that is no longer accessible which is why God had to give Muhammad the Quran...to restore and perfect the teachings of the previous “prophets”.

Witnessing to them is almost identical to how we would approach a Latter-day Saint (Mormon). If it is engrained in your mind that the Bible we have today has been corrupted and truths lost then they will always interpret it to the more perfect Book of Mormon or Quran.

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  I remind Moslems that the "prophet" Mohammed didn't make any prophecies, but that those in the Bible, especially Jesus, made prophecies that have come to pass, evidenced by recorded history & archaeology. And to avoid a "flawed" Bible  I use modern Bible versions.

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7 minutes ago, robycop3 said:

  I remind Moslems that the "prophet" Mohammed didn't make any prophecies, but that those in the Bible, especially Jesus, made prophecies that have come to pass, evidenced by recorded history & archaeology. And to avoid a "flawed" Bible  I use modern Bible versions.

I agree that Muhammad didn’t prophecy in the sense of the Old Testament prophets, but he does have several prophetic statements according to the Hadiths. 
 

For Muslims The Quran itself is proof that he is a Prophet of God. Muhammad is considered to be more of a Moses type figure than the Biblical Major and Minor Prophets. Muhammad isn’t looked at as a mystic or from purely spiritual standpoint. Like Moses creates an entire way of life and religion for Israel to follow, Muhammad is looked at as the “Moses” for all mankind perfecting it religion, laws (sharia), and final revelation in the form of the Quran.

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 The Amish sect was begun by Jakob Ammann(1644-C.1730), modified a little since his passing, who had begun as an Anabaptist, but formulated his own ideas of "Christianity" The name "Amish" is after him.

   To me, it's just another pseudo-quasi-Christian man-made religion that doesn't follow Scripture closely & is therefore non-Christian to me. However, I respect their rights to their beliefs, while at the same time praying for the HOLY SPIRIT to lead those of them whom He will to Jesus. While I witness to them when I have the chance, I generally get nowhere, as they believe they're either already saved or on God's path to salvation.

  Some have criticized me for serving in the USN, but I ask them, "Could you be what you wannabee under most other regimes today? We fought for YOUR rights, among others."

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On 4/26/2019 at 12:08 PM, robycop3 said:

  there are several branches of Mennonites as well. Some are as apostate as Muslims, but the ones around here that I've spoken with seem to believe the Gospel and in salvation by faith.

  They're named after Menno Simons (1492-1561) of Friesland, now part of The Netherlands, a RCC priest who became an Anabaptist. Most believe in salvation thru Jesus, the Bible's authority, adult baptism, and the Holy Trinity. They correctly believe that LGBTQ people can be saved if one renounced that lifestyle as part of repentance. (But unfortunately, some Mennonite pastors conduct LBGTQ weddings!) And, they do have more than one openly-gay pastor. (Depends upon the branch. Most do not accept this.)

  Their heterodox beliefs & practices include no military service nor fighting, period, no holding political office nor voting,  & swearing of oaths, (but never deliberately lying in the slightest). Some branches dress as Amish do, as well as often using horse-drawn buggies (but not all the time), which often gets them confused with Amish.

 

  If one is considering becoming a Mennonite, I strongly recommend one to check out the beliefs & practices of the group they're considering. Remember, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT SINFUL TO BE IN THE MILITARY, NOR TO DEFEND ONE'S FAMILY, PROPERTY, OR SELF! Nor is it sinful to vote or hold political office.  Those are MAN-MADE rules & should be disregarded by all Christians.

Speaking here as a veteran of the US Navy, I am not sure I agree with your last statement, though it is a difficult position. Scripturally, we are not to yoke ourselves with the ungodly, yet, in joining the military, we are literally doing just that, signing a piece of paper and making a vow to join with them, and placing ourselves as literal servants to the US Government. It was different back when there was no standing military, but all just went to work when the time came-there was no legal binding the same as today. And as I said, it is hard for me to take that position, but when it is literally to be yoked, being placed into bondage, to the government, binding yourself to them and to follow all regulations, (many of which have become very ungodly), I can no longer stand where I once did. (Sorry for going off subject a little)

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Are Amish and old order mennonites all rigidly living the same lifestyle?  It might look that way from the outside but I don’t think so.  Amish bicycles can be found hidden behind a bar.  The young people have been known to leave home in proper clothes then change later.  History books report that when starting a new farm, the Amish would quickly make a moonshine still.  Amish weddings sometimes have a unofficial drinking location.  And everyone has heard about bundling, i assume.  Girls got pregnant.  So, Amish are people like everyone else.  But when they get in trouble they standup in church and confess.  The community helps.

Old Overholt rye whisky was started by a Mennonite.

the first reason for primitive lifestyle is to avoid contamination by a fallen world.

another reason back in Europe was persecution.  Might as well make a virtue out of necessity.

Now it is tradition and also separation from the world.

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