Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Totoosart

What does 'Israel' mean in the Old Testament and in the New?

Recommended Posts

Greetings, all,

Hope you are all doing great and the Lord is smiling and offering you all His kind Grace and blessings.

Studying the Good Book, questions rise after questions, i hope it's a good thing.

Reading the Old testament, we come across the word 'Israel' when God tells Jacob:

Quote

 

Genesis 32: 28:

And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

 

i believe this is the first mention of that name, and then it has been mentioned multiple times on and on, especially through the book of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Hoshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, a good number of Psalms, starting with Psalm 14 and ending with Psalm 149, Proverbs 1, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Micah, Nahum, Zephaniah, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Phiippians, Hebrews, and finally in Revelation 21: 12.

if i am not wrong, this word: 'Israel' has been mentioned about 2714 times!

i understand that most of the time this word is refered to as the people, or the land, or children of Jacob and suchlike, but what about the first time it was mentioned? and what about the time when it is mentioned in the New Testament? For instance:

Quote

 

Glatians 6: 16:

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

 

Or better still:

Quote

Romans 11: 26:

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written . . .

 

Surely here 'Israel' does not only refer to the Jews or the children of Jacob, and is different, or at least i humbly believe so, but being a nurd, i'd like to make sure.

 

Thanks a lot for your time and kindness.

 

Bless your hearts,

Totoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Romans 11:26 does refer to the Jews, the 12 tribes that are still alive and remain after a certain point in the tribulation period. The Lord is going to lead them in the wilderness and purge out the rebels. Those who are left - ie. all (remaining) Israel will be saved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi!

You've broached a very broad topic that isn't easily answered.

As to your last question regarding Romans 11:26...

My understanding; is that, in light of the book of Zechariah, it does indeed mean that all Israel (those Israelis) who survive until the end of the great tribulation period...shall be saved.

Take care!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Jerry, and thank you No Nicolaitans for your kind replies.

i humbly believe the Bible is by far more complicated than that. Of course, there is always a face value, but i am seeking the underlying meanings. 

Have a great time and bless your hearts.

Totoo

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Israel means "God's Prince" which meant that God gave him power and authority and protection, both in heaven and in Earth, to rule over God's nation of Covenanted people. When Jacob ruled in faith the Bible would call him Israel but when he was fearful or in doubt of God's promises and protection he would be called Jacob in the Bible. Many times His name would alternate from Jacob to Israel in joining chapters. The "Nation of Israel" is more properly called "the Children of Israel" and is in reference to all of those who exited Egypt with Moses (including the mixed multitude that did not come physically from Jacob) and partook of the Israelite Covenant at Mount Sinai. Often when God promises to do something for the the nation of Israel, even when they do not have faith in His promises, then He will refer to the nation as Jacob. The "Israel of God" is in reference to those in the covenant of Israel and are also believers in Christ. The "Israel of God" does not include all believers but only the believers who are also in the "covenant of Israel". Those who do not believe in Christ but were born in the covenant of Israel will be "cut off in Righteousness" when Christ returns to set up the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. I can give a verse study later that shows these things, when I have more time. 

Edited by John Young

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear John,

As always, many thanks and your kind reply is much appreciated.

Makes much sense now, and you already replied my next question about the shift between Israel and Jacob, thanks for that, too.

i eagerly await your follow up discussion, it is a tough topic to digest and i cannot have enough help, cheers and bless your heart.

Totoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My humble opinion...

Israel ultimately represents the Glorified Body. More specifically, the Spiritual Genetics of the Glorified Body.

I'm referring to verses like this...

Romans 11:24

"For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?"

The Saved are grafted in.

Another way to look at it is that the Saved become Abraham's Seed...

Galatians 3:29

"And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise"

How is that possible? We must be Born Again.

Edited by MJW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Israel" refers to the 12 tribes descended from the patriarch Jacob whose name God changed to "Israel". These 12 tribes were one nation til God split them into Israel & Judah.

 When Scripture mentions "Jacob" or "Israel" after Jacob died, it's referring to the whole nation collectively. When Scripture says "Judah" or "Jew/Jews", it's referring only to the descendants of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi. Feel free to carefully check this out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That doesn’t even make sense! God did not deliberately make His Word confusing - He wants His people to understand and obey Him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I am one of the chosen in Christ because I have trusted in His finished work upon the cross of Calvary. Have you? Maybe you haven’t and that is the reason you cannot understand any of the Bible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks - but most or all here are very sad for you if you cannot say the same. You are either saved or lost, going to Heaven or to Hell, in Christ or damned for all eternity. Of course, a lost person can repent of their sins and trust the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation thereby changing their condition. Hopefully you have done so or will do so soon - asking endless questions won’t get you to Heaven - trusting in Jesus Christ alone to save you from your sins will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  I believe when Scripture says "Israel' or "Jacob" & isn't referring to the man, it means the whole nation or people of Israel. When it says "Judah" or Jew, again when not referrint o the man, it means the Jews only, that is, the people of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, ot Levi.

  The other Israelis are not Jews, but all Jews are Israelis. While we don't know who the other Israelis are today, GOD knows, & He will make their true ID known when His time comes.

  Nowhere does Scripture read "a Jew from the tribe of Asher", etc. so the Jews are wrong to claim all Israelis are Jews.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

So are the non-Judah Israelies not included anywhere in this?

Once again we find that the Bible disagrees with your spoutings.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But the Bible makes a difference between spiritual Israel and physical Israel.

Often people who use your phrasing are doing so to indicate that God has forsaken Israel and replaced them with Christianty.

What is your position on this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, but that doesn't really answer the question.

What is your position on the nation of Israel in God's future plan?

Are you of the opinion that the nation of Israel has been forsaken in favour of "Spiritual Israel", and therefore God will have nothing further to do with the nation of Israel?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shoostie said:

"...what is the "Israel" that not all Israel is part of, which is most relevant to this topic." The Israel "not of faith is cut off" but they are not cut off of Israel. They are cut off from the promise. Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. ...30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained [grafted in] to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained [cut out/off] to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
 

"In Romans 11, to what are gentiles grafted where the natural branches have been cut off?" Psalm 80:14-19 Return, we beseech thee, O God of hosts: look down from heaven, and behold, and visit this vine; 15 and the vineyard which thy right hand hath planted, and the branch that thou madest strong for thyself. 16 It is burned with fire, it is cut down: they perish at the rebuke of thy countenance. 17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself. 18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name. 19 Turn us again, O Lord God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved. "If you can say Israel, you'll be right." Actually you would be wrong as the olive tree is Christ and his body. 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. "Also, in Romans 11, "that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in", what is it that  Gentiles are coming into, if not the just expressed Israel?" They are being called into Christ.

"Ephesians 2 says, "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel".  If before Christ gentiles were aliens of Israel, what are they in Christ?  Paul goes on to answer, "fellow citizens" in the household of God, which is?" The household of God is not Israel the Nation but rather the Spiritual house/tabernacle of David. (2 Samuel 7, Psalm 89, Acts 15:13-18, Amos 9:11-12) We Gentile and Israel are one Body in the house hold of God by the body of Christ, by virtue of believers being graphed in to him and and the unbelievers being cut out. Acts 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:...2 Samuel 7:12-14 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

"Paul tells the Galatians Christians are the children of Abraham and Sarah, and that unbelieving ethnic Jews are not the children of Abraham and Sarah, and therefor are not the children of Jacob/Israel.  And, if Christians are the children of Abraham and Sarah through Christ, whom also is the seed of Israel, then Christians are Israel." In Galatians Paul is using Abraham's wives to illustrate the two covenants that bind people to the household of God. One of service and after the flesh (Israel's covenant) and one of son ship (Christ's covenant). At death, those only in the first, (Israelite after the flesh only), are cast out of God's house but the sons after the Spirit abides forever. The Galatians were sons only and not Israelites, yet desired to become bondservants after the flesh by following after the covenant of Israel. It was not about thier ethnicity but their covenants. Believing Israelite were in both covenants first by their flesh and second by their faith. In fact Paul was admonishing them NOT to become "spiritual" Israelites! They had liberty by remaining Spiritual gentiles. Acts 21:19-26 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.  20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shoostie said:

"The Olive Tree in Romans 11 is the Promise?  ... Didn't you just equate the Promise with the Olive Tree?  Now you say Jesus?  Jesus has no children, and therefor no natural branches.Christ is the mediator of the Promises and is the promised seed of Abraham and David that was to build the Spiritual house and city of God. John 15:3-6 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned....Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his....1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in  him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

"You say the Galatians are sons only, but not Israelites?  Sons of what?" Sons of God. Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus...Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.... Galatians 3:1-3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

"2 Samuel 7 verse 5 looks like it says David's house is the house of Israel, which is Israel." No where does it say his house is equal to Israel. In fact his Spiritual house is equivalent to New Jerusalem and Not Israel. John 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.... Psalm 87:2-62 The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob. 3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah. 4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there. 5 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. 6 The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah....1 Peter 2:4-6 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded....Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city....Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

Edited by John Young

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Romans 9

3  For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

 4  Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

 5  Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

 

Why would the Apostle Paul, under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit, refer to his kinsmen according to the flesh as Israelites, if God was now done with national Israel and had replaced them?

Yet Paul very specifically denote his kinsmen according to the flesh as "Israelites".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Similar Content

    • By LindaR
      This is beautiful!  Please turn the sound slider down to about half way....it starts out way too loud.
    • By In the Cross
      On a recent missions trip to Israel, I put together a short documentary on a recent prophetic fulfillment in Northern Israel that is very significant for the time frame we are living in today.
       
      Isaiah 29;17-18  "Is it not yet a very little while,and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field,and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book,and the eyes of the blind shall see out of OBscurity,and out of darkness."
       

    • By Dr James Ach
      I want to start a topic here to dispel the satanic heresy that the current Jews that comprise that land of Israel are not real Jews, a theory in which denies that the current state of Israel is the fulfillment of numerous Bible prophecies regarding Israel returning to her land.
       
      I am going to post a link to a video here, which I have posted before, but I want it to be prominent in a primary topic thread so it does not get lost in the middle of random posts. The video was created by Chris White, an 18 minute video that packs a ton of information in a short time, so take notes, but it thoroughly debunks the anti semetic view that the current state of Israel is made of fake Jews called the Ashkenazi Jews. Not only does this video debunk this ridiculous notion that spits in God's face regarding fulfilled prophecy, but I am going to have a few questions to ponder over, with other proofs that today's Israel is the Israel that has fulfilled prophecy. I am going to assume that most are aware of this history of the Balfour Declaration debates between 1914-1918, and the date Israel declared their independence in 1948, so I won't repeat that at any length here.
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXFUkvqnk9c
       
      The Two Myths I want to debunk are: 1) That the current state of Israel is not the fulfillment of prophecy and 2) That the church did not take over as the Israel.
       
      The Current State of Israel is the Fulfillment of Bible Prophecy
       
      The contention is in a nutshell (the myth can be read on several places on the forum here) is that Lord Rothschild created the nation of Israel, the the flag of Israel is the number of the beast, and the current Jews living in Israel now are not real Jews and therefore no prophecy has been fulfilled.
       
      This defies common sense and history of the development of Zionism prior to Rothchilds involvement. There were numerous Zionist congresses held by Jews in the land of Israel long before Rothschild was involved. Even if Rothschild was involved in the Illuminati (which he certainly is) and had evil intentions, that regathering of Jews to Israel is not contingent upon the spiritual life of Rothschild, Theodore Herzl, Lord Balfour, or anyone else. The Bible never said that the regathering of Israel depended on their faithfulness, the regathering of Israel was a PROMISE made in Ezekial 37, and Zechariah 14, and the salvation of Israel can only come AFTER they have been regathered. God did not gather Israel back together based on whether or not those who assisted could be judged by their professions of faith, but because God intends on working through Israel to demonstrates His faithfulness to Abraham, and his wrath upon the Christ rejecting world.
       
      Just because Rothschild was not a Bible believing Christian, does not mean God does not use heathens to accomplish His purpose. God used heathens to assist Israel in rebuilding Jerusalem during the time of Nehemiah (in getting approval from heathen kings for materials and permission to build). Artaxerxes, Ahasuerus, Darius, et al, were certainly not godly kings, but God worked through and around them to accomplish His purpose in the rebuilding of Israel and the temple. Since Paul clearly states that the Jew is blinded until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled (Rom 11:25), how could anyone expect a godly Jewish people to reestablish the nation of Israel? The very first mention of the word "holy" in the Bible, is a reference to the land of Israel (Exodus 3), and God called the land Holy before any Jew occupied it. This demonstrates that God separated the land first, and then gathered the people to occupy it.
       
      The Bible is clear that the land of Israel in the end times will be occupied by unbelieving Jews. Rev 2:2, 2:9 and 3:9. But Jesus praises the Jewish churches for trying them which say they are Jews and are not. To identify a false Jew, there has to be a true Jew as a standard of comparison. The entire book of Revelation revolves around the nation of Israel, and yet there are unbelieving Jews present in the land. Does the unfaithfulness of Israel negate the promises of God? (2 Tim 2:13). The gifts and calling of God are without repentance and can not be revoked (Rom 11:26). There is not one place in Scripture where the promise to regather Israel was based upon their acceptance of the Messiah FIRST. The fact is they are punished during the tribulation for their rejection of the Messiah, they will "finish the transgression" that was left out of the 70th week of Daniel. But they can not be purged unless they are regathered FIRST, and THEN they will be given the opportunity to receive Christ during the tribulation.
       
      And just a parenthetical comment here about whether it is a 7 year tribulation. Not only is it a 7 year period based on Daniels 70th week, but read Revelation ch 11-13 carefully. Revelation is NOT in chronological order, and if you notice the time lines given of the 2 witness and the beast, they total 7 years. Now notice the 2 witnesses are said to prophesy "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" Rev 11:3, now note that this ministry comes BEFORE the second woe of Rev 11:14. So these 2 witnesses preached for 3 1/2 years BEFORE THE SECOND WOE. Note that. Now notice the third woe is given in Rev 12:10 "woe unto the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea, for the devil is come down unto having great wrath because he knoweth that he hath but a short time". And how much time does he have? "and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months" Rev 13:5. Now do the math, 2 witnesses preach for 3 1/2 years BEFORE THE SECOND WOE, and the beast wreaks havoc for 3 1/2 year AFTER THE THIRD WOE. That's 7 years.
       
      Now back to Israel.
       
      Here's a common sense question for those that claim that the current Israeli's are not real Jews. Since it is clear that the land of Israel is now occupied by a nation that has a charter called Israel, and there's no disputing that the land traditionally known as Israel, is now called Israel again, if the real Jews show up somewhere, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO SET UP ANOTHER LAND? If the "real Jews' are supposed to access the real Israel, and that Israel is already occupied, then where would the "real" Jews go??
       
      And I'll get the following subject in a minute, but if it is claimed that the church is the real Jew, than WHY ISN'T THE CHURCH FLOCKING TO ISRAEL? And why is there no mention any where in the Bible of God regathering his CHURCH BACK TO ISRAEL?
       
      The argument is made that since the Jews are made of  nothing but immigrants, that they are not real Jews. Well DUH, they were scattered all over the earth. A prophecy about "RE gathering" implies that had to be scattered. None of us American's that live here now call ourselves English-Americans, or French Americans or Russian Americans (funny that we force blacks to call themselves African Americans). We all refer to ourselves as AMERICANS even though every one of us are immigrants.
       
      The arguments above, and the video are sufficient to prove that the current nation of Israel is the nation that God regathered in fulfillment of numerous prophecies.
       
      The Church is Not Israel
       
      *GRRRRRRR all of my external links went to a NKJV. Please look them up in a KJV.
       
      The claim that the church has inherited all of the promises of the covenants to Israel and thus has replaced Israel is probably the most popular that unites all 3 views. All 3 views deny that God will restore the literal nation of Israel in the end times. The historicists and preterists even go so far as to blame the  dispensationalist view of those who believe in the literal restoration of Israel  on a Jesuit priest named Ribera in the 1500s. The claim is that the Catholic church (RCC) need a response to the claims that Revelation pointed to the RCC as the whore of Babylon, and thus Ribera created futurism which was then later passed on to John Darby, then to Scofield and Larkin.
      Not only is that claim historically absurd due to the early church "fathers" that also held to a futuristic view, but Ribera's commentary was never translated from Latin and there is no evidence that Darby ever read his works and he never referenced them. Furthermore, Ribera's only similarity from what I have read is that there will be a future kingdom, there is nothing remotely similar about Ribera's writings and the pre-millenial views. Moreover, the RCC has never believed in pre-millenialism or a pre-tribulation rapture, and those who hold to those views still identify the RCC as the beast and the antichrist so whatever views are attributed to Ribera, do not look like the scheme worked even if it were true.
      This subject has had entire volumes written about it so I won't do much justice to the subject here, but just a few short observations from Romans 9-11 which is a death blow to all 3 views regarding Israel:
      *Paul argues that "hath God cast away his people that he foreknew?" Romans 11:1-2. So clearly, the contention is that someone had been cast away due to the dispensation of grace. If the church had replaced Israel, this question would not even be up for debate with Paul. If the church replaced Israel, why would the question be asked if God cast away His church which He foreknew? Who was Paul referring to that was cast away and that God foreknew? Surely Paul is talking about the literal Hebrews, and he answers the question with a resounding NO.
      *Paul describes the nation of Israel as his brothers "according to the flesh". Rom 9:3. The church are not Paul's brothers according to the flesh, church members are made family by adoption through the Holy Spirit, not by promise of covenants with Israel. Rom 8:23. Thus Paul sets the entire tone of Romans chs 9-11 by identifying his discourse about Israel as being his physical lineage, not about promises given to the church by transference.
      *The other view often cite Luke 13 where Jesus cursed the fig tree as evidence that Israel will never be restored. However, Rom 11:15clearly shows that God will raise Israel as a nation "from the dead". Therefore Luke 13 can only be temporary as is confirmed by Paul in Romans 11:25.
      *Paul repeatedly makes distinctions between the Jews and Greeks (gentiles) throughout Scripture (Rom 1:16, Acts 28:29 which you will only find in a KJV). In Rom 11:13, Paul confirms that he is the apostle to the Gentiles and makes the distinction between his office over the Gentiles, and those who are of his flesh (v 14).
      *Revelation 7:4-8 clearly shows that during the tribulation, 144,000 Jews will be sealed. If those who profess that the church replaced Israel, then let me ask to which of the twelve tribes listed in Rev 7:5-8 do you belong to?
      *It is obvious from Daniel 9:25-27, 2 Thess 2:1-12, and Rev 11:1-2 that there will be temple rites practiced again during the tribulation, such as would not be practiced by the church. Furthermore, saints saved during the tribulation are said to "sing the song of Moses and of the Lamb". The church would not be singing the song of Moses, that is a clear indication that there will be literal, physical blood-line Jews present during the tribulation that are saved in accordance to God's promises to them in the OT and Paul's statement in Romans 11:26.
      * I mentioned this early but worth saying again. In Rev 2:2, 2:9, and 3:9, Jesus praises the Jewish churches for identify false Jews. First thing to note, is that in order to identifying a false Jew, there needs to be a true Jew as a standard of comparison. Secondly, there is nowhere in the epistles to the church where a Gentile believer is admonished to "try them which say they are Jews and are not". During the dispensation of grace, there is neither "Jew nor Greek" (Gal 3:27-28), but in Revelation 2-3, the emphasis is back on the Jew.
      Another thing to note about Romans 11:26 where Paul says "all Israel will be saved", if that was a reference to the church, would that not be redundant? The church is sealed right now (Eph 4:30, 1:13), there is no possible loss of that salvation so why would Paul make a reference to a future salvation of the church? That makes it obvious that Paul is referring to a future salvation of Israel as a nation, and not to a future salvation that is made up of Gentile believers.
      *If the church replaced Israel, why would Paul bother writing an entire book to HEBREWS, and James write a book "to the twelve tribes scattered abroad"?
       
      The church is under a completely different calling and set of prescriptions than the nation of Israel, and the confusion over Bible prophecy is the failure to understand the difference between the two. The church is a "mystery" not previously known, Eph 3:1-12, Col  1:26-27. Jesus said, "on this rock I will build my church", thus the church can not be Israel because the church is in a building process build separate from the nation of Israel which will culminate when the voice John hears that speaks as a trumpet (and notice this trumpet sounds before the 7 trumpets begin) tells the church to come up hither. Rev 4:1.
       
      Additional Signs That Validate The Current State of Israel
       
      The following are numerous signs that have occurred in Israel that show that God is fulfilling prophecy in the CURRENT land of Israel.
       
      *A PURE LANGUAGE: "I will restore until the peoples a pure language" Zeph 3:9. For nearly 2000 years, Israel has been scattered through out the earth, yet in the last 50 years, they have revived the Hebrew language spoken as it was 2000 years ago.
       
      *ISRAEL BECAME A NATION IN A DAY: Despite the reneging by Churchill on the Balfour Declaration that chopped up the land of Israel, and the opposition of their enemies, in ONE DAY Israel became a nation in fulfillment of Isaiah 66:8. Not only that, but when they were regathered, the ORDER that they would be gathered in was predicted. Isa 43:5-6, and 21.
       
      *LAND DIVIDED FOR GAIN. Winston Churchill and the UN and the Pope refused to allow the Jews all of the land that they claimed as part of their heritage with the borders listed in Deut and Joshua, and divided the land for gain. Joel 3:1-2. 
       
      *ISRAEL BECOMES CENTER OF WORLD CONTENTION: Israel is said to be a stumbling block to all the nations and there can be no question today that all of the conflicts in the middle east revolve around the nation of Israel. Zech 12:3
       
      *THE SHEKEL REVIVED: For 2000 years Israel had not national currency, and now that they have been regathered and restored as a nation, they have revived the currency of the shekel as predicted in Ezek 45:12-16.
       
      *ISRAEL BARREN LAND BECOMES PRODUCTIVE AGAIN: For 2000 years that land of Israel was barren, dessert, even under the occupation of Turks, and other Arabs and the Ottoman empire, there was never any agriculture in the land,and no forestation, but now Israel produces more fruit (particularly the grapes) to rival the largest producers in the world. Isaiah 26:6, Isaiah 35:1-2.
       
      There are scores of other prophecies that I could list here, but these demonstrate clearly that the CURRENT land of Israel not only fulfilled prophecy in it's regathering, but is CONTINUING to fulfill prophecy, and will be the center of prophecy during the coming great tribulation.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 374 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...