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robycop3,
re:  " Simple truth is, Jesus was crucified on a WEDNESDAY...And I believe Jesus was resurrected just before sunset on the regular weekly Sabbath of that week..."

 

Luke 24:21 has the men on the road to Emmaus saying that the 1st day of the week " is the 3rd day since these things happened", with the crucifixion being the last thing mentioned as happening (verse 24:20).   So if the 1st day of the week was the 3rd day since the crucifixion, then the 7th day of the week would be the 2nd day since the crucifixion, which would make the 6th day of the week the 1st day since the crucifixion,  which would make the 5th day of the week the day when the last thing mentioned happened, i.e., the crucifixion and not the 4th day of the week as you suggest.      
 

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robycop3,
re:  "There's simply no way to get three days & three nights from Friday to Sunday AM..."

A couple of ways have been suggested that the "heart of the earth" is not referring to the tomb so that the arrest in the garden or the 3 hours of darkness in the afternoon could account for one of the three nights. 
 

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18 hours ago, rstrats said:

robycop3,
re:  "There's simply no way to get three days & three nights from Friday to Sunday AM..."

A couple of ways have been suggested that the "heart of the earth" is not referring to the tomb so that the arrest in the garden or the 3 hours of darkness in the afternoon could account for one of the three nights. 
 

The "heart of the earth " was just that. Just as Jonah was in the whale's stomach ("belly of the beast") but his soul was brought down to the bottoms of the mountains (at least in type maybe not literally) way below in the deep where the bars were shut about him forever so Jesus descended into the heart of the earth (call it hades, hell, Abraham's Bosom, sheol, the grave,  or whatever) to preach to the spirits in prison, to take the keys of hell and death and lead captivity captive (a jailbreak). The three hours among the Sanhedrin or on the cross explanation is a bunch of nonsensical private interpretation.

This is crucial to understand because Jesus was referring to how long he would be in hell (no, not burning in flames as some crazy Baptists say) not to how long his body would be in the tomb. He "gave up the ghost" and descended to hell at 3pm Thursday which was still daytime and rose again 6am Sunday which would make him being three days and nights in the heart of the earth according to daylight and darkness reckoning.

 

Thursday 3pm-6pm=Day 

Thursday 6pm-Friday 6am=Night 

Friday 6am-Friday 6pm=Day

Friday 6pm-Saturday 6am=Night 

Saturday 6am-Saturday 6pm=Day 

Saturday 6pm-Sunday 6am=Night 

Three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Now it could be argued that Jesus said to the thief on the cross that he would be be with him that night in paradise. This could mean paradise was in the heart of the earth at that time part of "Abraham's Bosom" or it could mean, based on John 3:13,  that Jesus was in both places (heaven and hell) at the same time. He is God so quite possible. Read Psalm 139:7,8 for further elaboration.

 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, SureWord said:

The "heart of the earth " was just that. Just as Jonah was in the whale's stomach ("belly of the beast") but his soul was brought down to the bottoms of the mountains (at least in type maybe not literally) way below in the deep where the bars were shut about him forever so Jesus descended into the heart of the earth (call it hades, hell, Abraham's Bosom, sheol, the grave,  or whatever) to preach to the spirits in prison, to take the keys of hell and death and lead captivity captive (a jailbreak). The three hours among the Sanhedrin or on the cross explanation is a bunch of nonsensical private interpretation.

This is crucial to understand because Jesus was referring to how long he would be in hell (no, not burning in flames as some crazy Baptists say) not to how long his body would be in the tomb. He "gave up the ghost" and descended to hell at 3pm Thursday which was still daytime and rose again 6am Sunday which would make him being three days and nights in the heart of the earth according to daylight and darkness reckoning.

 

Thursday 3pm-6pm=Day 

Thursday 6pm-Friday 6am=Night 

Friday 6am-Friday 6pm=Day

Friday 6pm-Saturday 6am=Night 

Saturday 6am-Saturday 6pm=Day 

Saturday 6pm-Sunday 6am=Night 

Three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Now it could be argued that Jesus said to the thief on the cross that he would be be with him that night in paradise. This could mean paradise was in the heart of the earth at that time part of "Abraham's Bosom" or it could mean, based on John 3:13,  that Jesus was in both places (heaven and hell) at the same time. He is God so quite possible. Read Psalm 139:7,8 for further elaboration.

 

 

 

 

 

Three hours is not "a day", 12 hours is a day, if speaking of a day and a night-24 hours total. The time began when He was placed into the grave, just before 6pm, so He could be just as he was, 3 12hr days and 3 12hr nights. So He was crucified on Wednesday, placed into the tomb just prior to the end of the day , meaning He was in the tomb Thurs, Fri  and Sat, probably reviving either just before the send of the weekly Sabbath, but more likely resting til the finish of Sabbath and resurrecting at the very start of the first day at 6pm.

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1 hour ago, rstrats said:


How do you reconcile that with Luke 24:21?

Everything recorded in scripture is correct, but not everything is factual. That he said it was the third day since it was done cannot be correct the way it reads, because Jesus Himself said three days and three nights in the earth, until His resurrection. We cannot make 3 hours into a day. I would rather believe what Jesus said, than a disciple who may have been wrong. 

As well, technically-speaking, if Jesus died just prior to the end of the day, He could have resurrected just prior to the first day of the week, which would have made it the third day since He died, though the disciples didn't come to the tomb until the start of the first day.

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8 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Three hours is not "a day", 12 hours is a day, if speaking of a day and a night-24 hours total. The time began when He was placed into the grave, just before 6pm, so He could be just as he was, 3 12hr days and 3 12hr nights. So He was crucified on Wednesday, placed into the tomb just prior to the end of the day , meaning He was in the tomb Thurs, Fri  and Sat, probably reviving either just before the send of the weekly Sabbath, but more likely resting til the finish of Sabbath and resurrecting at the very start of the first day at 6pm.

As I said a "Day" as in a period of daylight regardless of the length of time.

If Jesus rose ON the third day (not after three days) yet spent three days and three nights in the heart of the earth this is the only way that makes sense.

Also, a Wednesday crucifixion would have him in the sepulchre for 3 1/2 days/nights if he rose again early Sunday morning.

Wednesday Crucifixion at 3pm buried just prior to sunset, i.e. 6pm.

Thursday 6pm-6am=Night 

Thursday 6am-6pm=Day 

Friday 6pm-6am=Night 

Friday 6am-6pm=Day 

Saturday 6pm-6am=Night 

Saturday 6am-6pm=Day 

Sunday 6pm-6am=Night 

Remember, the Jewish Day (24 hour period) began at sunset and ended the following sunset.

I believe the days and nights our Lord was referring to had to do with daylight and darkness not actually twelve hours periods. Also, I believe Jesus was referring to time spent in hell (i.e. Abraham's Bosom) and not to his body laying in the tomb. At least not in that passage.

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, SureWord said:

As I said a "Day" as in a period of daylight regardless of the length of time.

If Jesus rose ON the third day (not after three days) yet spent three days and three nights in the heart of the earth this is the only way that makes sense.

Also, a Wednesday crucifixion would have him in the sepulchre for 3 1/2 days/nights if he rose again early Sunday morning.

Wednesday Crucifixion at 3pm buried just prior to sunset, i.e. 6pm.

Thursday 6pm-6am=Night 

Thursday 6am-6pm=Day 

Friday 6pm-6am=Night 

Friday 6am-6pm=Day 

Saturday 6pm-6am=Night 

Saturday 6am-6pm=Day 

Sunday 6pm-6am=Night 

Remember, the Jewish Day (24 hour period) began at sunset and ended the following sunset.

I believe the days and nights our Lord was referring to had to do with daylight and darkness not actually twelve hours periods. Also, I believe Jesus was referring to time spent in hell (i.e. Abraham's Bosom) and not to his body laying in the tomb. At least not in that passage.

 

 

 

 

Morning begins at 6am, doesn't mean that is when Jesus rose, just when the women went to the tomb. Jesus wasn't there-He was already risen. Besides, He could have remained in the tomb until 5 minutes before the end of the first day, and it still would have been three days and three nights. Nothing that it cannot go over, however, again, there is nothing about the specific time He rose, so He could have been out of the grave, busy with whatever business He had, before the women arrived.

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4 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Morning begins at 6am, doesn't mean that is when Jesus rose, just when the women went to the tomb. Jesus wasn't there-He was already risen. Besides, He could have remained in the tomb until 5 minutes before the end of the first day, and it still would have been three days and three nights. Nothing that it cannot go over, however, again, there is nothing about the specific time He rose, so He could have been out of the grave, busy with whatever business He had, before the women arrived.

I guess he could have risen at 6pm Saturday night according to our calendar but I always assumed that since he was called the "Sun of righteous" in Malachi 4:2 and that the disciples met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7; I Corinthians 16:2) it was early Sunday morning our calendar. 

Another thing that stumps me is when Paul wrote that our Lord rose again ON the third day. How do you have three days and three nights yet still rise on the third day? That would make rising again on the fourth day. That's why I figured Jesus wasn't talking about literal twelve hours days and nights but rather periods of daylight and darkness.

I'm probably over thinking all of this.

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On 7/14/2019 at 8:35 AM, rstrats said:

 

 

John Young,
re:  "We Gentiles don't but the Early Christian JEWS of Jerusalem did in Acts 12. They kept the Passover week as part of their National traditions and celebrated Easter (Resurrection Morning) at the end of those events."

 

Are you saying that NT Christians celebrated the resurrection on resurrection morning?   If so, I'm not aware of any scripture which says that.   
 

There are some Christian groups who practice Passover now. I see nothing wrong in either practicing Passover or not practicing Passover. I am sure Paul and the early Jewish Christians practiced Passover. It was part of their heritage.

 

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Ukulelemike,

OK, so you explain the discrepancy by saying that the men made a mistake with their remark. Fair enough. 

re:  "He could have resurrected just prior to the first day of the week, which would have made it the third day since He died..."

To what day of the week is "it" referring?

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On 10/21/2020 at 4:13 AM, rstrats said:

Ukulelemike,

OK, so you explain the discrepancy by saying that the men made a mistake with their remark. Fair enough. 

re:  "He could have resurrected just prior to the first day of the week, which would have made it the third day since He died..."

To what day of the week is "it" referring?

Well, what day is just prior to "the first day of the week"?

On 10/20/2020 at 4:46 PM, SureWord said:

I guess he could have risen at 6pm Saturday night according to our calendar but I always assumed that since he was called the "Sun of righteous" in Malachi 4:2 and that the disciples met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7; I Corinthians 16:2) it was early Sunday morning our calendar. 

Another thing that stumps me is when Paul wrote that our Lord rose again ON the third day. How do you have three days and three nights yet still rise on the third day? That would make rising again on the fourth day. That's why I figured Jesus wasn't talking about literal twelve hours days and nights but rather periods of daylight and darkness.

I'm probably over thinking all of this.

If Jesus died at 3pm, was buried before 6pm, let's say for argument's sake, 5pm, then he could rise on the 3rd day at 5:01 pm on the 7th day, just prior to the start of the first day, and it would cover both the 3 days, 3 nights requirement, AND still rise on the 3rd day. Remember, Jesus was already risen when the women came to His tomb-we don't know exactly when. I suppose it depends on just how legalistic, as it were, that Jesus had to be to fulfill all the requirements he set forth.  

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On 10/22/2020 at 2:04 PM, Ukulelemike said:

Well, what day is just prior to "the first day of the week"?

If Jesus died at 3pm, was buried before 6pm, let's say for argument's sake, 5pm, then he could rise on the 3rd day at 5:01 pm on the 7th day, just prior to the start of the first day, and it would cover both the 3 days, 3 nights requirement, AND still rise on the 3rd day. Remember, Jesus was already risen when the women came to His tomb-we don't know exactly when. I suppose it depends on just how legalistic, as it were, that Jesus had to be to fulfill all the requirements he set forth.  

Yes, like I said I'm not sure it has to be a full 12 hours of day or 12 hours of night to qualify. If I spend a night at a hotel it doesn't necessarily mean I'm there from dusk to dawn. That's why I think that heis death on the cross at 3pm could have counted as one day in "the heart of the earth" since his soul would have went there at 3pm. Jesus commending his spirit into the Father's hand doesn't necessarily mean that it went to heaven.  

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On 10/23/2020 at 10:43 AM, rstrats said:

BTW, what is your support for saying that the crucifixion took place on Wednesday?

I agree with it. Thursday, Friday and Saturday in the tomb, resurrected probably just prior to the beginning of the first day, so it could qualify both as 3 days and 3 nights, AND resurrected on the third day.

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On 10/20/2020 at 8:06 PM, Bouncing Bill said:

There are some Christian groups who practice Passover now. I see nothing wrong in either practicing Passover or not practicing Passover. I am sure Paul and the early Jewish Christians practiced Passover. It was part of their heritage.

 

Why did you quote my question to John Young and then comment on his comment regarding Passover?

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On 10/26/2020 at 3:19 PM, rstrats said:

So your support for a Wednesday crucifixion is that you agree with your belief that the crucifixion took place on Wednesday.  

What was my whole quote: let's look again:

On 10/26/2020 at 2:49 PM, Ukulelemike said:

I agree with it. Thursday, Friday and Saturday in the tomb, resurrected probably just prior to the beginning of the first day, so it could qualify both as 3 days and 3 nights, AND resurrected on the third day.

Though technically, He was raised AFTER 3 days, which would mean very early, (or late?, at the beginning) of the first day.

By the timeline of the crucifixion, He probably went into the sepulcher maybe, at earliest, an hour, possibly less, before the end of the day, so He both met the requirement of three days and three nights, AND to rise after three days, (Matt 27:63; Mark 8:31). Simple math.

On 10/26/2020 at 11:36 AM, SureWord said:

Yes, like I said I'm not sure it has to be a full 12 hours of day or 12 hours of night to qualify. If I spend a night at a hotel it doesn't necessarily mean I'm there from dusk to dawn. That's why I think that heis death on the cross at 3pm could have counted as one day in "the heart of the earth" since his soul would have went there at 3pm. Jesus commending his spirit into the Father's hand doesn't necessarily mean that it went to heaven.  

It's so SIMPLE! 3 days and 3 nights MEANS 3 days and 3 nights. Why is it so hard> Why do we feel we need to complicate things, just to be in agreement with the Catholic's re-writing of scripture? Just like 6 days of creation, 6 days, evenings and mornings, yet so many "Christians" need to say, "Well, that means ages, or thousands of years", so they can try to change God's simple word to agree with God-hating evolutionists.

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7 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

What was my whole quote: let's look again:

Though technically, He was raised AFTER 3 days, which would mean very early, (or late?, at the beginning) of the first day.

By the timeline of the crucifixion, He probably went into the sepulcher maybe, at earliest, an hour, possibly less, before the end of the day, so He both met the requirement of three days and three nights, AND to rise after three days, (Matt 27:63; Mark 8:31). Simple math.

It's so SIMPLE! 3 days and 3 nights MEANS 3 days and 3 nights. Why is it so hard> Why do we feel we need to complicate things, just to be in agreement with the Catholic's re-writing of scripture? Just like 6 days of creation, 6 days, evenings and mornings, yet so many "Christians" need to say, "Well, that means ages, or thousands of years", so they can try to change God's simple word to agree with God-hating evolutionists.

Nobody is trying to complicate anything just trying to figure the apparent contradictions.

How did Christ spend a total of three days AND three nights in the heart of the earth yet rise again ON the third day like Paul said NOT after three days? 

Again, a Wednesday Crucifixion would have him spending 3 1/2 days and nights in the heart of the earth unless you have him rising again 6pm Saturday night. I conceded this could be possible but it seems to me that it was early Sunday morning thus why we hold services on Sunday morning.

If I wanted to be in agreement with Catholicism, which I made absolutely no attempt to do, I would simply say the Lord was crucified on a Friday and be done with it but the bible isn't always simple and takes hard work to figure out sometimes.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, SureWord said:

Nobody is trying to complicate anything just trying to figure the apparent contradictions.

How did Christ spend a total of three days AND three nights in the heart of the earth yet rise again ON the third day like Paul said NOT after three days? 

Again, a Wednesday Crucifixion would have him spending 3 1/2 days and nights in the heart of the earth unless you have him rising again 6pm Saturday night. I conceded this could be possible but it seems to me that it was early Sunday morning thus why we hold services on Sunday morning.

If I wanted to be in agreement with Catholicism, which I made absolutely no attempt to do, I would simply say the Lord was crucified on a Friday and be done with it but the bible isn't always simple and takes hard work to figure out sometimes.

 

 

 

Well, as for the difference between the third day, and after the third day, that is a difference that I suppose ew may not understand this side of heaven. It may be that He rose, or came alive, ON the third day, but did not rise, or leave the tomb, until AFTER the third day. 

A Wednesday crucifixion would not have Him in the tomb 3-1/2 days and nights, because the time of His death isn't the same as the time in the tomb, which is what the timing is set to. 3 days, three nights in the heart of the earth, or the tomb. That being the case. then He was only in the tomb for 3 days, and maybe an hour, depending on when He actually left the tomb.

Early Sunday morning would coincide with about 5am, which is why it was still dark when they went to the tomb, and it was already empty, so Jesus rose before that. But really, early Sunday would be after 6pm the evening before.

I don't think the time of day is important, He could have risen at 6:01pm, right at the start, or at 5am, while still dark, and before the women arrived, but the timing, three literal days and nights, 3 complete 24-hour periods, I believe are the best to go with, because it is the plainest reading, with no need to interpretation. It may even be that, if He went to the tomb at 5pm, then He could have risen at 5:55pm Saturday night, but left the tomb until after Sunday began, and He still would have met all the prophesied requirements.

And I apologize, I didn't mean to specifically say YOU were complicating things, though in retrospect I can see how that looked. It was just a general lament. Sorry it came across that way. Same with the catholic thing. I should not have attached it to your comment.   

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  I believe He rose shortly before sunset on Saturday; He was certainly risen before the women arrived at His tomb. The only ones who might've seen Him rise were the Roman guards, who all fainted from fright when the angel came & rolled the rock from in fronta the entrance.

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2 hours ago, rstrats said:


But I'm still curious what your reasoning was for your need to quote me when your addition to the discussion dealt with John Young's comment? 
 

 

You put in a quote and a comment. It seemed to me that the two went together as they were in one post. So, I commented. If the quote had been in one post and your comment in another I would not have tied them together. 

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On 2/26/2021 at 3:17 PM, Bouncing Bill said:

 

You put in a quote and a comment. It seemed to me that the two went together as they were in one post. So, I commented. If the quote had been in one post and your comment in another I would not have tied them together. 

Ok, thanks.  We all misread things from time to time. 

On 2/23/2021 at 1:34 PM, robycop3 said:

  I believe He rose shortly before sunset on Saturday;

If by Saturday you mean the 7th day of the week, how do you deal with Mark 16:9?

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