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After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.'


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Well done Bro. Alan. This puts the events directly following the Great Tribulation in perspective. I am always amazed that there are people that will insist that Israel is back in the land after the events of 1948, while at the same time disregarding the fact that The Great tribulation has not yet happened and is yet future. God has not yet gathered His people(Israel) back into the land as prophesied.

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  And that shall be ALL Israel, not just the Jews, who are only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi.

   Many people are misled by the name of the Jewish nation, "Israel".  I'm an Ohioan & therefore an American. And just as all Ohioans are Americans, but not all Americans are Ohioans, all Jews are Israelis, but not all Israelis are Jews.

Jeremiah 3: 18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

 

Ezekiel 37:

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. 

This was when God gave Zeke the famous "dry bones" vision, with God saying they represented the WHOLE House of Israel. He & Jerry were fairly-contemporary, especially during Zedekiah's days.

Edited by robycop3
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Funny - Israelites today refer to themselves in a general sense as EITHER Jews or Israelies, but they refer to their tribes specifically.

I know several Jews and Israelies, and have spent some time among Jews and Israelies and today they do not make the distinction you keep pressing. And that includes those who are NOT of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi but still proudly refer to themselves as Jews.

And of course there are many Israelies who are not Jewish, but Arab Muslim, and a number who are Christian of varying breeds.

You are just wrong.

 

Why do you disrespect these men of God by using such infantile nicknames for them?

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7 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Well done Bro. Alan. This puts the events directly following the Great Tribulation in perspective. I am always amazed that there are people that will insist that Israel is back in the land after the events of 1948, while at the same time disregarding the fact that The Great tribulation has not yet happened and is yet future. God has not yet gathered His people(Israel) back into the land as prophesied.

Thank you Jim.

You are correct. As one reads the events of Matthew 24, Mark 14, Luke 21, and Revelation chapter 6-19, the events "after the tribulation" come into its proper perspective. And, the Great Tribulation is still in the future.

In order to have the proper perspective of the "after the tribulation" events, a person must study the prophecies of the Old Testament prophets in detail and realize that every jot and tittle of the prophecies will be fulfilled as written.

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20 hours ago, DaveW said:

Funny - Israelites today refer to themselves in a general sense as EITHER Jews or Israelies, but they refer to their tribes specifically.

I know several Jews and Israelies, and have spent some time among Jews and Israelies and today they do not make the distinction you keep pressing. And that includes those who are NOT of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi but still proudly refer to themselves as Jews.

And of course there are many Israelies who are not Jewish, but Arab Muslim, and a number who are Christian of varying breeds.

You are just wrong.[/quote]

 No, I'm NOT. Just show me a Scripture that says "a Jew from the tribe of Dan", etc.

 

20 hours ago, DaveW said:

 

Why do you disrespect these men of God by using such infantile nicknames for them?

Oh, pshaw! How silly!  You're acting as if ancient Israelis didn't use nicknames. The very title "Jew" is a nickname! And Jesus called Zebedee's sons James & John “Boanerges” , which means 'sons of thunder'. I shall disregard such silliness.

 

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1 hour ago, robycop3 said:

Feeling's mutual.

One big difference: you were shown basic respect when you first arrived, but returned none to anyone on this forum and none to the forum rules.

You have not earned respect here and indeed you have shown contempt to the board, to many individuals, both members and moderators, and also shown contempt for the Word of God - with the lackadaisical use of it.

I give respect where it is dur and I give people the opportunity to show who they are.

You have done so, and have certainly not earned any respect from...... well as far as I can see, anyone on this board.

I'm done now mods, so I won't continue to pollute Alan's thread with more argument.

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The Mourning of the Nation of Israel

Revelation 1:7, “Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindred's of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”

Revelation 1:7 is the fulfillment of the prophecy by the prophet Zechariah. Zechariah 12:9-14, And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.”

“… after the tribulation ...” the gathered remnant of the Jews, according to the prophet Zechariah will “mourn” as a nation. The prophet Zechariah goes into detail and lists the various houses, tribes, and the families of those houses and tribes that will mourn. These details are observable, literal, tangible, and are clearly of the restored nation of Israel.

The Unbelief of Zechariah 12:9-14 and Matthew 24:30 by the Preterists

In his comments on Acts 2:37 Philip Mauro states that that this is the “mourning” of the individuals at the day of Pentecost after Peter’s sermon. Mauro also states that the listing of the families by Zechariah is not literal as Zechariah states but “signifies” repentance. So, Mauro teaches that Zechariah 12:9-14 was fulfilled at the day of Pentecost and there will be no future fulfillment. Mauro states,

Moreover they also mourned for him, as the prophecy foretold. For it is recorded that “they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? That was indeed “a great mourning in Jerusalem”; for it resulted in the conversion of “about three thousand souls.”

It should be observed further that, according to the prophecy, every family was to mourn apart, and their wives apart. Which signifies that “repentance unto life” and the “godly sorrow” that leads to it, were to be a personal and individual, and not a national affair, as the Jewish rabbis taught (and as some Christian teachers wrongly teach today).” Mauro, Philip, The Hope of Israel: What Is it? (Boston, MA: Hamilton Brothers,1929), p.100

When the apostle Peter preached at the day of Pentecost there was a great result of 3,000 people being saved. Please take careful note that Peter does not state that the results were a fulfillment of Zechariah 12:9-14

Philip Mauro is wrong in his interpretation of Zechariah12:9-14, Matthew 24:30 and Acts 2:36. The Lord Jesus prophesied after the tribulation” there will be a gathering of the ‘elect,’ the nation of Israel, and they will ‘mourn’ exactly as the prophet Zechariah prophesied.

Also, in an effort to malign those Bible teachers who believe in a national mourning, and salvation experience of the Jews ‘after the tribulation,’ Mauro states, “as the Jewish rabbis taught (and as some Christian teachers wrongly teach today).” Philip Mauro is the false teacher.

The prophet Zechariah taught that there will be a national mourning for the children of Israel. The Lord Jesus plainly prophesied that this will be fulfilled ‘after the tribulation.’

Philip Mauro does not believe that the prophecy of Zechariah will be fulfilled ‘after the tribulation’ as the Lord Jesus prophesied.

 

Edited by Alan
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The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the ‘After the Tribulation’ Gathering in Israel

The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that “at one time” the Jews were God’s elect, or chosen, people, and that those who (Orthodox Jews or religionists in Christendom), teach that the Jews will be gathered back to the land of Israel are in error. Please take careful note. To the Jehovah's Witnesses, “Christendom” is completely apostate.

First. The Jehovah’s Witnesses state at one time (not now), the Jews were God’s chosen people.

Bible prophecy proves beyond a question of doubt that the nation of Israel was at one time God’s chosen people. The Orthodox Jews and many religionists of “Christendom” believe that Bible prophecy foretells that the Jews will be regathered once more into their “Holy Land of Palestine.” They claim that that time is now here and that their effort in that direction is in fulfillment of these prophecies.”i

Second. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the gathering of the Jews in fulfillment of Jeremiah 32:37 occurred after the Babylonian Captivity. This is a partial truth. They ignore Jeremiah 23:5-8 that clearly prophesy of a more permanent, complete, and different, gathering And, they believe, that the ‘Israel of God,’ or, ‘Jews inwardly,’ or, ‘spiritual Israelites’ have now become the ‘gathered’ people.

They [ apostate Christendom ] do not realize that the first or miniature fulfillment of that promise [ Jeremiah 32:37 ] applied to the Jewish remnant that returned from Babylon in 537 B.C. and that the major or complete fulfillment applied to the “Israel of God” made up of ‘Jews inwardly’ or spiritual Israelites who come out from captivity to this Babylonish world. ( Galatians 6:16 ) From and after A.D. 1919 these have been gathered into the earthly condition of Jehovah God’s favor as his witnesses and as ambassadors of his kingdom established in the hands of the Messiah.”ii

Third. The Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the future restoration, or gathering, of the Jews in fulfillment to scripture.

If more Jews are in the future gathered to Palestine, it will only be a political, humanitarian gesture, and not of God’s provision according to prophecy. God’s promises concerning restoration are being fulfilled upon his spiritual Israelites, Jehovah’s witnesses, who are the remnant of faithful followers of His Messiah.”iii

Fourth. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that it is a false hope in the mass conversion and regathering of the Jews to Israel.

The facts and prophecies prove that the natural Jews will never again be a chosen, regathered people. They have as a people flagrantly rejected the Messiah, his truth and his kingdom. It is a false hope that they must be regathered to Palestine and be converted in mass to Jesus Christ prior to his second coming and as a sign of the early establishment of his kingdom.”iv

Please take careful note. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are careful to say, “Palestine,” and not the nation of Israel, or the land of the Jews, or Israel. Also, like Philip Mauro, Pastor Steven Anderson, and many other false teachers who teach Replacement theology, use terms, in a derogatory and sarcastic, manner, such as, ‘natural Jews’ or ‘Israel after the flesh,’ in an effort to discredit, humiliate, and to try to demean the sons of Jacob.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses misuse Jeremiah 32:37 and Romans 11:1-2. They ignore Jeremiah 23:5-8, and dis-believe the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the prophecy of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:31

Conclusion. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the events, ‘after the tribulation,’ that occur as written in Matthew 24:29-31, in their own way, are symbolic, or spiritual, in nature. They teach that there is no restoration of the Jews in the land of Israel and no mass conversion as a nation ‘after the tribulation.’

Basically, the beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses concerning Matthew 24:29-31 are similar, not exactly alike, to the beliefs of Preterism and Steven Anderson.

i Let God Be True, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, (Brooklyn: NY), 1946, Page 198.

ii Let God Be True, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, (Brooklyn: NY), 1946, Page 205-206.

iii Let God Be True, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, (Brooklyn: NY), 1946, Page 207-208.

iv Let God Be True, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, (Brooklyn: NY), 1946, Page 208-209.

Edited by Alan
scripture reference added 'concerning Matthew 24:29-31'
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Brethren,

I am in the final state of having this thread in a PDF format. Any further questions or comments?

Alan

 

Edited by Alan
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31 minutes ago, Alan said:

Brethren,

I am in the final states of having this thread in a PDF format. Any further questions or comments?

Alan

 

Alan, Sorry I missed this before. I look forward to the PDF and sharing it with my wife.

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Brethren,

I want to thank all of you for participating in the study on, "After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his  elect.' I appreciate your kind comments and take note of any other comment.

Here is the link to the PDF, "After the Tribulation - They Shall Gather the Elect," PDF, free:https://preceptpublications.org/After the Tribulation 02.01.21.pdf

The PDF file contains a lot more information than I put on this study here on Online Baptist. If you have a question, or a comment, on the material within the PDF study than please bring it to our attention. I would like to add that once we return to the United States on our next furlough, if God allows, we plan on putting the Matthew 24:29-31 study in book form. So, if you see any problem, or error, or I did not properly present a passage of scripture correctly, or if I need to clarify something that I said, in the book I will correct my error.

I do request that you keep your question, or comment, presented one at a time, that they are sincere, and that the question or comment does not bring a harsh discussion or ill feeling. If I feel that the question or comment is not beneficial to this study, in any manner or fashion, I would like to retain the option of moderating the study and asking the individual to cease their questions or comments.

It is my thought that the material provided in the free PDF file would be a blessing to all and a help in their understanding of the prophetic events surrounding the words of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31.

May God richly bless all of you as you study the scriptures.

Alan

  

Edited by Alan
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Hugh_Flower,

It would be my pleasure to answer any of your questions.

With all of the different divergent interpretations of prophecy in the religious realm I can understand why it is a struggle sometimes to understand which interpretation is the true one. After I got saved (at 19 years old in the military), the only material I read was in the different chapels (I went to approximately 9 different bases in the Air Force), and the material that I had available on doctrine, versions of the Bible, Charismatic material, and prophecy, was confusing. At the time most of the material was Reformed, Catholic, and Charismatic. So, at the beginning, concerning prophecy, my thoughts on Matthew 24, and other portions of scripture, were from the a-millennial point of view.

So, we  will try and go through one question at a time.

God bless.

Alan

 

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