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robycop3

A look at "this generation"...

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6 hours ago, Invicta said:

You keep saying that and it is just as false as it was the first time.  The future prophecy starts in verse 36 when Jesus answers  Matthew's later questions , 3b and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? The arnswer,  36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Note the word BUT indicating a change of emphasis.

  Sir, I have three encyclopediae before me: Encyclopedia Britannica, Collier's Encyclopedia, & World Book. The occurremce of the eschatological events aren't found in any of them. Now, these are pretty major events, and history would not have missed tthem. That fact alone proves preterism false.

   Now, if the great trib has already occurred, Jesus is long-overdue, according to His own words in Matt. 24:29-30. It astounds me that anyone of at least normal intelligence could believe anything goofy as preterism.

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4 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  Sir, I have three encyclopediae before me: Encyclopedia Britannica, Collier's Encyclopedia, & World Book. The occurremce of the eschatological events aren't found in any of them. Now, these are pretty major events, and history would not have missed tthem. That fact alone proves preterism false.

   Now, if the great trib has already occurred, Jesus is long-overdue, according to His own words in Matt. 24:29-30. It astounds me that anyone of at least normal intelligence could believe anything goofy as preterism.

...and it astounds me how anyone can believe that different "bible" versions, which say different things, and teach different doctrines could believe that such differences are okay.

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14 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  Sir, I have three encyclopediae before me: Encyclopedia Britannica, Collier's Encyclopedia, & World Book. The occurremce of the eschatological events aren't found in any of them. Now, these are pretty major events, and history would not have missed tthem. That fact alone proves preterism false.

   Now, if the great trib has already occurred, Jesus is long-overdue, according to His own words in Matt. 24:29-30. It astounds me that anyone of at least normal intelligence could believe anything goofy as preterism.

So you have three encylopaedias, but I have the bible.  Jesus said all those things would happen before this generation passed away. 

I don't disagree that the eschatological events have not happened.  The eschatological events begin at verse 36.

Edited by Invicta

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Based on the wording found in Matthew 24 and Luke 21, it is obvious Luke is referring to both events in the first century and the time of the tribulation; however, the context/words of Matthew 24 show that in that chapter the tribulation (and possible events leading directly up to it) are in view - even as a young Christian, this was obvious to me by taking these chapters at face value.

It is surprising that a regular member here does not believe that. What background are you coming from that gave you that view? It is certainly not Baptist or IFB.

Edited by Jerry

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4 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Based on the wording found in Matthew 24 and Luke 21, it is obvious Luke is referring to both events in the first century and the time of the tribulation; however, the context/words of Matthew 24 show that in that chapter the tribulation (and possible events leading directly up to it) are in view - even as a young Christian, this was obvious to me by taking these chapters at face value.

It is surprising that a regular member here does not believe that. What background are you coming from that gave you that view? It is certainly not Baptist or IFB.

I am Baptist but I was in the Plymouth Brethren for years and am well acquainted with your teaching which is not Baptist, but Brethren.

Just read the scriptures carefully, very carefully and forget your pre programmed views.

And to address Roby's offensive remarks I am not a preterist.  I believe that Revelation was written about AD 96 and no preterist believes that.

|I don't consider either of you to be baptist but neo Brethren.  i I have been there, done that, now I am free.

 

 

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10 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

...and it astounds me how anyone can believe that different "bible" versions, which say different things, and teach different doctrines could believe that such differences are okay.

And what bible versions are those encyclopaedias?

Edited by Invicta

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I do not have a clue what you mean by neo brethren. I am not nor ever have been brethren - but I can guarantee at least 95% or more of the regular members here that are IFB believe as I do on Matthew 24.

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2 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I do not have a clue what you mean by neo brethren. I am not nor ever have been brethren - but I can guarantee at least 95% or more of the regular members here that are IFB believe as I do on Matthew 24.

When I was at school , I was taught never to go with the majority because the majority is usually wrong.

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Compared to the majority of Christendom, I’m sure IFB doctrine is different. However, winging it and going off on your own theologically compared to other sound Bible-based believers is not a position to be proud of. It usually means you are out to lunch...

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Invicta is NOT Baptist at all, and has shown no real knowledge even of genuine Baptist history, let alone genuine Baptist doctrine.

And he constantly accuses people here of being brethren, usually based around this discussion, even though he has been shown clearly from the Bible that his position is not biblical, and historically that his position is not Baptist.

He reinterprets terms so that he can be offended when people call him a preterist, but people constantly "mistake" what he says for preterism...... maybe because what he says is so closely aligned to preterism that it is almost impossible to tell the difference.

And he changes history to suit his arguments,  which I and others have shown here before.

Edited by DaveW
Phone spelling

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18 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

...and it astounds me how anyone can believe that different "bible" versions, which say different things, and teach different doctrines could believe that such differences are okay.

  Since I'm not permitted to post about that subject, lemme just say there's absolutely no evidence that God is limited to causing only one translation to be made.

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9 hours ago, Invicta said:

So you have three encylopaedias, but I have the bible.  Jesus said all those things would happen before this generation passed away. 

I don't disagree that the eschatological events have not happened.  The eschatological events begin at verse 36.

  "This generation" hasn't yet arrived, unless it's this one.

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5 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  Since I'm not permitted to post about that subject, lemme just say there's absolutely no evidence that God is limited to causing only one translation to be made.

Well, I know this sounds goofy...but just as there are people who believe in Preterism...and they will defend their position no matter what...

...get this...

...believe it or not, there are actually people who believe that God says different things to different people, and they also believe that God teaches different doctrine to different people based upon whichever "bible" version that they choose to use...and those people will defend their position no matter what. 

I know...I know! I mean...how could anyone believe that God would say one thing to one person (or group of people), but then he would turn around and say something different to another person (or group of people) that contradicts what he said to the first person (or group of people)? Why...that sounds goofy! However...there are people who actually believe such. 

I haven't been asked (nor told) not to speak on this subject; however, from this point on, I will say no more. You claim to fight against false doctrine...and that you have fought against it for 40 years. What a pity that you accept different doctrines despite that bold proclamation. How do you know which doctrines to fight against? I have to wonder which jot and tittle you defend...after all, they are different in different versions. I have to wonder...at what point do you decide man has added to or taken away from God's word...which is expressly forbidden by God. Oh wait...I forgot...God isn't limited to only one translation...even though different translations say different things??? 

...and thanks for saying, "lemme"...my 8 year old son (who is in the 3rd grade) would probably like that if I showed it to him.

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16 hours ago, Jerry said:

I do not have a clue what you mean by neo brethren. I am not nor ever have been brethren - but I can guarantee at least 95% or more of the regular members here that are IFB believe as I do on Matthew 24.

When I was at school , I was taught never to go with the majority because the majority is usually wrong.

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I will repeat that I am not a preteist. I believe that preterism is false started by the Jesuit Alcazar,  I also believe that futurism is false started by Jesuit Fransisco Ribera and followed by other Jesuits,  Robert Belarmine (Roberti Belarmini), Michael Walpole, and "Juan Josefat Ben Ezra, a converted Jew)  the false name of Jesuit  Manuel de Lacunza written about 1891.  Strangely this false teaching came in to the protestant church in 1825 after Edward Irving came across Lacunza's book and began to preach on dispensationalism on Christmas day 1825.

I believe the traditional non Catholic teaching that the pope is antichrist that the Roman Church is the harlot woman, the false bride, and the true church is the Bride of Christ.

 

Edited by Invicta

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43 minutes ago, Invicta said:

When I was at school , I was taught never to go with the majority because the majority is usually wrong.

Were also taught to make up "history" to suit yourself, because you have a proven track record of it on this site, as has been pointed out to you many times previously.

Many doctrines you say originated in the 1800's are clearly seen presented in documents back to the second and third century, including your version of Preterism.

Answer this will you: If you position is so far removed from preterism, how is it that you are so often and regularly identified by your teaching as a preterist?

And by so many different people over the years?

Call it what you will, but it is regularly identified as preterism.

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4 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Well, I know this sounds goofy...but just as there are people who believe in Preterism...and they will defend their position no matter what...

...get this...

...believe it or not, there are actually people who believe that God says different things to different people, and they also believe that God teaches different doctrine to different people based upon whichever "bible" version that they choose to use...and those people will defend their position no matter what. 

I know...I know! I mean...how could anyone believe that God would say one thing to one person (or group of people), but then he would turn around and say something different to another person (or group of people) that contradicts what he said to the first person (or group of people)? Why...that sounds goofy! However...there are people who actually believe such. 

I haven't been asked (nor told) not to speak on this subject; however, from this point on, I will say no more. You claim to fight against false doctrine...and that you have fought against it for 40 years. What a pity that you accept different doctrines despite that bold proclamation. How do you know which doctrines to fight against? I have to wonder which jot and tittle you defend...after all, they are different in different versions. I have to wonder...at what point do you decide man has added to or taken away from God's word...which is expressly forbidden by God. Oh wait...I forgot...God isn't limited to only one translation...even though different translations say different things??? 

...and thanks for saying, "lemme"...my 8 year old son (who is in the 3rd grade) would probably like that if I showed it to him.

  Well, God DOES say different things to different people, according to:

1.) His choice

or

2.) The abilities He's given that person.

He tells some to preach. He tells others to teach. He tells others to use their musical talent to spread the Gospel, others to manage a church's finances,  others to polish the pews. All are important to Him.

 

  His means of communicating are many,  so I don't scoff at anyone who says he "heard God", long as the "message" conforms to SCRIPTURE.

 

    Now, I've never "heard" Him, but I know He wants me to work against false doctrines & pseudo/quasi-Christian religions just as surely as if He had appeared to me & spoken to me.

 

  And ONE message/commandment He has for EVERY Christian is to spread the Gospel whenever/wherever possible. That's a UNIVERSAL command!

 

  (As for "lemme" or any other textese/slang I choose to use, I shall do so as I choose. I don't tell anyone else how to "talk", nor make fun of their spelling, and I'm not gonna pay any attention to anyone trying to "correct" me.  And everyone makes typos if they use a keyboard a lot, as I do, & I don't belittle them for it unless they do me. Fair enough?)

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

I will repeat that I am not a preteist. I believe that preterism is false started by the Jesuit Alcazar,  I also believe that futurism is false started by Jesuit Fransisco Ribera and followed by other Jesuits,  Robert Belarmine (Roberti Belarmini), Michael Walpole, and "Juan Josefat Ben Ezra, a converted Jew)  the false name of Jesuit  Manuel de Lacunza written about 1891.  Strangely this false teaching came in to the protestant church in 1825 after Edward Irving came across Lacunza's book and began to preach on dispensationalism on Christmas day 1825.

I believe the tradidtional non Catholic teaching that the pope is antichrist that the Roman Church is the harlot woman, the false bride, and the true church is the Bride of Christ.

 

  I believe Scripture is mostly-literal, with most of its symbolism explained by other Scripture, and that the symbolism always represents something or someone literal.

 

  As for "futurism", it's obvious that Matt. 24 from V16 onward has not yet been fulfilled, but  those parts that HAVE been fulfilled were dome so LITERALLY, TO-THE-LETTER.

 

  And obviously, "this generation" doesn't refer to the body of all people living while Jesus was here, as Jesus' words are always 100% correct, & the prophesied eschatological events haven't yet happened.

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43 minutes ago, robycop3 said:

  Well, God DOES say different things to different people, according to:

1.) His choice

or

2.) The abilities He's given that person.

He tells some to preach. He tells others to teach. He tells others to use their musical talent to spread the Gospel, others to manage a church's finances,  others to polish the pews. All are important to Him.

 

  His means of communicating are many,  so I don't scoff at anyone who says he "heard God", long as the "message" conforms to SCRIPTURE.

 

    Now, I've never "heard" Him, but I know He wants me to work against false doctrines & pseudo/quasi-Christian religions just as surely as if He had appeared to me & spoken to me.

 

  And ONE message/commandment He has for EVERY Christian is to spread the Gospel whenever/wherever possible. That's a UNIVERSAL command!

 

  (As for "lemme" or any other textese/slang I choose to use, I shall do so as I choose. I don't tell anyone else how to "talk", nor make fun of their spelling, and I'm not gonna pay any attention to anyone trying to "correct" me.  And everyone makes typos if they use a keyboard a lot, as I do, & I don't belittle them for it unless they do me. Fair enough?)

Well Mr. Roby, you have not addressed, or even acknowledged the issue that No Nics stated. He specifically addressed your assertion that God speaks to different people differently in regard to opposing doctrines. Your reply was non-responsive because the subject you put forth was in regard to different gifts, not doctrines.

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2 hours ago, DaveW said:

Were also taught to make up "history" to suit yourself, because you have a proven track record of it on this site, as has been pointed out to you many times previously.

Many doctrines you say originated in the 1800's are clearly seen presented in documents back to the second and third century, including your version of Preterism.

Answer this will you: If you position is so far removed from preterism, how is it that you are so often and regularly identified by your teaching as a preterist?

And by so many different people over the years?

Call it what you will, but it is regularly identified as preterism.

Only by the ignorant. 

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5 hours ago, Invicta said:

Only by the ignorant. 

If something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, and waddles like a duck, guess what...... it is probably a duck.

Over the years you have been independently identified by many different people as a preterist by the opinions that you state in regard to eschatalogicsl matters. Can you explain that?

Are all these different people "ignorant"?

If you think everyone else is driving the wrong way down the highway,  maybe it isn't everyone else who is ignorant.......

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1 hour ago, DaveW said:

If something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, and waddles like a duck, guess what...... it is probably a duck.

Over the years you have been independently identified by many different people as a preterist by the opinions that you state in regard to eschatalogicsl matters. Can you explain that?

Are all these different people "ignorant"?

If you think everyone else is driving the wrong

way down the highway,  maybe it isn't everyone else who is ignorant.......

If people don't know the difference between preterism and historicism they are ignorant.  Preterism and futurism  are closer to each other than historicism because they were both invemted by Jesuits to challenge the true teaching that the pope is antichrist.  The preterists sayy he was in the past, the futurists say he is in the future.  The futurists say Revelation is nothing to do with the church, but refers to the Jews in the future.  Preterism says it has nothing to do with the church but refers to the Jews in the past.  You should welcome preterists Because they agree with you in callenging  the true teaching.  Historicism teaches that the book of Revelation is the history of the church written in advance in signs , Revelation 1:1.

Do you think that Christ had nothing to say to the church in her tribulation through the ages by Rome.pagan and papal?

  • Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Edited by Invicta

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And yet over the years people have constantly "mistaken" what you teach as preterism.......

And you still continue to rewrite history to suit your own beliefs.

We have been over this time and time again - the view that most of us hold here is NOT a Jesuit invention as it is found in writings back to the 2nd and 3rd century, before Jesuits and before your false 1800's date, and proof has been previously presented.

You know this and yet you still LIE about it being a recent invention. Yes, I said LIE - Because you knowingly present as fact that which has been disproven in discussions with you, with incontrovertible historical proof.

And in any case (as has also already been pointed out to you on many occasions) the history of a doctrine or belief is of no consequence sequence - it is whether or not it is biblical that counts.

And as has been clearly pointed out to you many times in the past and also in this thread, if your view were correct then many of the things mentioned in the Bible would have been seen in history, and they simply have not. And they would not have been missed.

You do the equivalent of making the flood a local flood by your poor attempts to reconcile your view with historical evidence.

Your view and history do not match.

Your view and the Bible do not match.

You are wrong.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Invicta said:

Do you think that Christ had nothing to say to the church in her tribulation through the ages by Rome.pagan and papal?

Which church exactly?

Do you mean the churches that are not mentioned throughout the Book of Revelation after chapter 3?

Until chapter 22 when He mentioned who he is writing to.

Yet another reason why you are wrong......

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13 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Well Mr. Roby, you have not addressed, or even acknowledged the issue that No Nics stated. He specifically addressed your assertion that God speaks to different people differently in regard to opposing doctrines. Your reply was non-responsive because the subject you put forth was in regard to different gifts, not doctrines.

  God definitely stresses a certain doctrine to one person, while stressing a nother doctrine to another person. hence, we have one Christian writer making books about the Holy trinity, while another writes about baptism. As  for OPPOSING doctrines, I don't see any.

5 hours ago, Invicta said:

If people don't know the difference between preterism and historicism they are ignorant.  Preterism and futurism  are closer to each other than historicism because they were both invemted by Jesuits to challenge the true teaching that the pope is antichrist.  The preterists sayy he was in the past, the futurists say he is in the future.  The futurists say Revelation is nothing to do with the church, but refers to the Jews in the future.  Preterism says it has nothing to do with the church but refers to the Jews in the past.  You should welcome preterists Because they agree with you in callenging  the true teaching.  Historicism teaches that the book of Revelation is the history of the church written in advance in signs , Revelation 1:1.

Do you think that Christ had nothing to say to the church in her tribulation through the ages by Rome.pagan and papal?

  • Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

  the line of popes is not the "beast". Scripture makes it plain that he will be only one man. However, we can't rule out the possibility that a pope or some other RC high official might be the "beast from the earth", that is, the antichrist's sidekick, the false prophet.

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