A look at "this generation"...

[robycop3]

  When Jesus said "this generation", did He always mean "the whole body of all the people now living"? Clearly, He was in the following verses:

From the KJV: Matt. 11: 16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,

Matt. 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

  In Matt. 23, Jesus is giving a stern, scathing rebuke to the Pharisees & other "holier than thou" Jewish religious officials. Here, He proclaims they will be held accountable for the murders of every righteous person, from Abel up to that time. And He says:

Matt. 23: ³⁶ Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

In Luke 21, He calls this punishment the "days of vengeance", & I believe they came in 68-70 AD when Jerusalem & the temple were destroyed, & the power of the Pharisees was largely broken.

   But now, we come to times when Jesus said what's translated as "this generation" by the KJV & most other translations when it's quite-plain He was NOT referring to the people then living. We look at Matt. 24, the Olivet Discourse,  where Jesus prophesies many of the eschatological events, including His own return, in Verse 30.

  Two things we know for certain: Jesus' wrods are 100% true, and He has not yet returned. So, when He said,

Matt. 24: ³⁴ Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 He must've been referring to something other than the body of all people alive at that time.

 I believe the answer is in the multiple English meanings of the Greek genea, usually translated "generation". I am open to any intel from any person here proficient in Koine Greek.

[Jerry]

There are still many people living that were alive when Israel came together as a nation in 1948.

g1074. γενεά genea; from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons): — age, generation, nation, time.

g1085. γένος genos; from 1096; “kin” (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective): — born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock.

What other meaning or appication of this term or passage are you thinking of? Perhaps the nation of Israel would not pass away? But we know from plenty other Bible passages that Israel will exist until Christ returns, though the rebels will be purged out during the tribulation period. It would seem redundant for Jesus just to restate that principle.

[John Young]

Matthew 23 in context has your answer to what generation it is. In it you will see that its not talking about a single physical generation of men but rather the spiritual generation of vipers throughout their history that had infested the spiritual leadership of Israel. That evil generation of Satan would still be present with Israel to see these things come to pass upon them before Israel's rebirth as a Godly nation through the 144,000. In scripture there are two spiritual generations. One by God through Christ and another by Satan through sin.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

John 1:12-14 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 13:27-30 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 23:29-39 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Matthew 24:32-35 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

John 8:43-44 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Edited March 20, 2019 by John Young

[Jerry]

Why would Jesus refer to something totally unrelated and separate from the things He was already talking about? Matthew 24-25 is one long conversation - ch. 23 is something He was talking about on another occasion.

From the context, I would say the generation referred to in Matthew 24:34 is the same one that saw the things referred to up to verse 33 - and is an exhortation for these belivers to be ready, not a warning for the wicked to be judged.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Jerry

[John Young]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

Why would Jesus refer to something totally unrelated and separate from the things He was already talking about? Matthew 24-25 is one long conversation - ch. 23 is something He was talking about on another occasion.

Chapters 24-25 are actually a continuation in light of Chapter 23.They rejected His protection from their coming destruction for their physical children to come so Jesus finishes telling the evil generation that Israel's temple, which they are in charge of, will be left desolate until a righteous generation of Israelites will arise and call Him blessed. As Jesus leaves "their house" the disciples then proceeded to marvel at the greatness of the temple's buildings and wonder how the Chapter 23 statements will be fulfilled. Jesus then proceeds to tell them in 24-25. 

The virgins and servants in 24-25 are all of Israel. After they are divided then the nations are judged, and then the pre-tribulation saved that are in New Jerusalem, the bride that is in heaven, at this time waiting to come down after everything is put in order by the bridegroom. To see the connection to chapter 23, observe the verses I gave above and add to them these here:

Matthew 23:38-39 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Matthew 24:1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Mark 13:1-4 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Notice that the righteous are asking when his statements about the temple and the wicked generation and the rise of the righteous will be fulfilled. Jesus explains that it will be at his return from his wedding and he gives the events that the righteous must suffer and then the day of his coming and judging his servants of Israel and then the nations. Every person physically born in Israel is considered the servant of God but the faithful righteous generation will be saved while the wicked viper generation will be destroyed.

Matthew 24:40-44 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 and shall begin to smite his  fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Matthew 25:10-12 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Edited March 20, 2019 by John Young

[robycop3]

13 hours ago, Jerry said:

There are still many people living that were alive when Israel came together as a nation in 1948.[/quote]

Including myself.(Born April 1948)

g1074. γενεά genea; from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons): — age, generation, nation, time.

g1085. γένος genos; from 1096; “kin” (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective): — born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock.

What other meaning or appication of this term or passage are you thinking of? Perhaps the nation of Israel would not pass away? But we know from plenty other Bible passages that Israel will exist until Christ returns, though the rebels will be purged out during the tribulation period. It would seem redundant for Jesus just to restate that principle.

That's what I'm wondering - WHICH APPLICATION? Obviously, it was NOT the body of all people living at that time.

 

[Invicta]

On 3/20/2019 at 7:33 PM, Jerry said:

Why would Jesus refer to something totally unrelated and separate from the things He was already talking about? Matthew 24-25 is one long conversation - ch. 23 is something He was talking about on another occasion.

From the context, I would say the generation referred to in Matthew 24:34 is the same one that saw the things referred to up to verse 33 - and is an exhortation for these belivers to be ready, not a warning for the wicked to be judged.

Matthew 24 etc. is a continuation of Matthew 23.  Jesus said that their house would be left unto them desolate.  They would have kown what that meant as it was left desolate by Nebuchadnezzar.  Josephus, in his chapter on "a short history of Jerusalem" said that Jerusalem had been captured a number of times but only desolated  twice, 1st by by Nebuchadnezzar and 2nd by Titus.  

It was when they left the temple after that denunciation of the pharisees that the disciples drew the attention of Jesus to the great stones of the temple , some of which are said to have been  25 tons or more.  The conversation was all comcerning that event.

[robycop3]

12 hours ago, Invicta said:

Matthew 24 etc. is a continuation of Matthew 23.  Jesus said that their house would be left unto them desolate.  They would have kown what that meant as it was left desolate by Nebuchadnezzar.  Josephus, in his chapter on "a short history of Jerusalem" said that Jerusalem had been captured a number of times but only desolated  twice, 1st by by Nebuchadnezzar and 2nd by Titus.  

It was when they left the temple after that denunciation of the pharisees that the disciples drew the attention of Jesus to the great stones of the temple , some of which are said to have been  25 tons or more.  The conversation was all comcerning that event.

  I believe that was the time Jesus chose to inform His disciples (and us) about some future events. Thus, He caused the disciples' questions & His answers to be preserved in Scripture. Some of those events are still future, of course, as neither the great trib nor Jesus' return occurred yet.

 

  So, we must look elsewhere for the meaning of "this generation" in  several instances of Scripture beside "the body of all people then living".

[Jerry]

For the sake of the argument, why couldn’t the word generation be referring to the generatin of those alive when Israel came together again as a nation? There are still people from that generation alive - indicating that not all of them will pass away before the end comes and Jesus Christ returns. I still think that is a very real possibility, and very good application of that term in that passage.

[John Young]

11 minutes ago, Jerry said:

couldn’t the word generation be referring to the generatin of those alive when Israel came together again as a nation? There are still people from that generation alive - indicating that not all of them will pass away before the end comes and Jesus Christ returns. I still think that is a very real possibility, and very good application of that term in that passage.

Time will tell. In a sense it is referring to all who will be in that spiritual generation which will not end until Christ Returns and removes them from the righteous generation. That end can include some from the founding of this present Nation but doesn't have to.

[robycop3]

36 minutes ago, Jerry said:

For the sake of the argument, why couldn’t the word generation be referring to the generatin of those alive when Israel came together again as a nation? There are still people from that generation alive - indicating that not all of them will pass away before the end comes and Jesus Christ returns. I still think that is a very real possibility, and very good application of that term in that passage.

 I'm of that generation(born April 1948) and you may be right. Loox as if this is a "wait-n-see" thingie.

   One of Trump's wiser moves was to strengthen ties with Israel. which not only pleases the 6 million Jews in the USA, but, more-importantly, pleases GOD.  Despite most jews unbelief in Jesus as Messiah, God still loox out for them. While the individual Jew who dies without Jesus is as lost as anyone else who does, they're still part of God's "peculiar" people whom he will bless.

[Invicta]

5 hours ago, Jerry said:

For the sake of the argument, why couldn’t the word generation be referring to the generatin of those alive when Israel came together again as a nation? There are still people from that generation alive - indicating that not all of them will pass away before the end comes and Jesus Christ returns. I still think that is a very real possibility, and very good application of that term in that passage.

• Matthew 23.:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 

Jesus was speaking to that generation of vipers  that crucified their Messaiah, thus  fufilling

• Matthew 23:30  And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophetsFill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

The Olivet prophecy  was a conrtinuation of that conversation and however anyone tries to manipulate scriptures, the same generation is that in Olivet.

[robycop3]

2 hours ago, Invicta said:

• Matthew 23.:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 

Jesus was speaking to that generation of vipers  that crucified their Messaiah, thus  fufilling

• Matthew 23:30  And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophetsFill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

The Olivet prophecy  was a conrtinuation of that conversation and however anyone tries to manipulate scriptures, the same generation is that in Olivet.

EXCEPT....

 The great trib, nor Jesus return have not yet occurred.

[Invicta]

1 minute ago, robycop3 said:

EXCEPT....

 The great trib, nor Jesus return have not yet occurred.

None so blind as those who will not see. 

The great tribulation was the 3½ years from AD 66-70, when there was no tribulation ""such as" that.  If Jesus had meant any generation other than the one he was speaking to, he would have said "that generation".

[Jerry]

In Matthew 24, Jesus was speaking to His disciples, believers, according to verses 1-2.