Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Sign in to follow this  
BobbyH

Jesus' Church

Recommended Posts

"Jesus Christ began His Church in Jerusalem with the calling of the 12 and finished building it just prior to being crucified (with about 120 adult members). This one church was the ‘my church’ that He would build.  This Church begat other Churches just like itself (Antioch, Ephesus, Corinth, etc.)."

Is this common doctrine among independent Baptist churches?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not attended a great many Baptist Churches, therefore cannot say if this is common among Independent Baptists. But if you are interested I will provide a link to a devotional I did on this subject.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Jim, I read your attached post. I appreciate your input. I am convinced about when "Jesus'" Church started. My sticking point is more to do with "church perpetuity" than the beginning. I believe the Apostles were empowered at Pentecost by The Holy Spirit to do the work of building the church on the foundation that Christ had laid. I believe churches started everywhere through disciples that were persecuted and scattered throughout the region. These churches were ordained of The Holy Spirit and IMHO legitimate. I have a hard time with the only legitimate churches being those that are connected to a church started by the Apostles. Again, IMHO it is The Holy Spirit that begets a church with Jesus Christ as the Foundation.

I try my best to rightly divide the Word through study and prayer as God gives me wisdom. I just am led to think that if a born again, Spirit filled believer (man) was led to start a local church based on the foundation that Christ laid, that the Holy Spirit would be the authority. He would of course have to be baptized by someone with that same Holy Spirit authority.

I submit this in love and not as criticism. I do not seek to be right in man's eyes, I just want to be right with God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Church perpetuity is guaranteed by the words of Jesus when he stated that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

The examples in Scripture concerning church planting all revolve around "churches begetting churches." While it is true that men went out and started churches, it was always under the authority of their sending church. The purity of the Gospel message and authority to start new churches is encapsulated in what we call The Great Commission when Jesus told his church to "go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. This command was not given to an individual, but rather to His church.

To imagine that just because a man is saved and indwelt of The Holy Spirit is authority enough to start a church, when that man has never submitted himself to any Baptist Church authority is dangerous. I believe that this is also why we see churches separated into "Denominations" that hold to heretical doctrine and teaching.

You cannot have church perpetuity apart from church authority. There is no justification for the differences we see in churches started by some man apart from the Scriptural outline that shows how churches are to be started and what they are to teach. 

 2Thes. 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. 

 Php 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 

 2Tim 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. 

The same doctrine and principals as the first churches taught can only be taught by genuine New Testament Churches. This is church perpetuity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Church" perpetuity I agree is guaranteed. There will always be true churches.

I do not find the Scripture that affirm "church begets church". I believe that is why the first church was empowered by the Holy Spirit and that "seed" is what is planted to beget a true church. 

Scriptural baptism is necessary to become part of His church, not as part of regeneration but to identify with The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

I agree with the scriptures you gave to support the outline of a true church. I just believe that just as the "seed" that the Apostles were empowered with was The Holy Spirit.

"If" a church is planted under the authority of The Holy Spirit is will be a true church.

"I do not seek to be right in man's eyes, I just want to be right with God"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother Bobby

Of course you will not find the words, "church begets church" in Scripture, those were my words to describe a process whereby churches are established.

You said you "don't find Scripture that affirms "church begets church."  That is because there is not Scripture that specifically says those words. But the concept is plainly laid out in Scripture. If you only consider the missionary journey's of The Apostle Paul you can easily see this concept in action. 

 Ac 15:36  And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do. 
 37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark. 
 38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work. 
 39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus; 
 40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God. 
 41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.

In verse 36 we see Paul wanting to go back to the churches that he and Barnabas had established.

In verse 40 we see him being "recommended" by the brethren. This is the church authority to operate under the authority of his home church.

 Acts 11:22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. 
 23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. 
 24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord. 

Here we see the church at Jerusalem sending Barnabas to Antioch to plant a church out of those that had believed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, BobbyH said:

I have a hard time with the only legitimate churches being those that are connected to a church started by the Apostles. Again, IMHO it is The Holy Spirit that begets a church with Jesus Christ as the Foundation.

So then, according to your statement who do you think the churches we see in the new testament were started by if they were not started by the first Church at Jerusalem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the thousands of disciples (church members) scattered at the time of persecution in Jerusalem, around the time of the stoning of Stephen. This lead to churches in several locations. 

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

20 And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the LordJesus.

21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.

As time goes on the only way for us to be linked to the church at Jerusalem is through the same foundation Jesus Christ through the empowerment of The Holy Spirit.

I am not trying to be disagreeable, this is important to me. If I might ask How do you connect your church back to the first church?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BobbyH said:

I am not trying to be disagreeable, this is important to me. If I might ask How do you connect your church back to the first church?

Many have tried, but there is no way to physically trace any church back to the first church. So, having said that, how do we trace our church back to the first church?

It can only be traced by doctrine. Is what our church teaches in line with Scripture and what the first churches and Apostles taught? It is The Holy Spirit in church capacity that assures us that we are in agreement with original church doctrine. Scripture affirms that The Holy Spirit (Comforter)  is the teaching agent in our church. He will never go against Scripture or Divinely  ordained doctrine.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 

 John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get why this is such an issue for so many people.

What we see in the Bible is that churches are started under the authority of other churches. This IS the Biblical pattern.

Who cares if you can or can't trace your church back to the Jesus?

As I already answered in the other thread, what is most important is what a church is doing today, and how churches are started today - is it Biblical.

This "you can't  trace your church back so it can't be true" is a total red herring.

The only ones I see making an issue out of it are those who want to dispute the idea of authority. That's how I see it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

DaveW "I don't get why this is such an issue for so many people.

What we see in the Bible is that churches are started under the authority of other churches. This IS the Biblical pattern."

I do not have a problem with authority. I know who has authority over me in the leadership of my flock. That authority comes from Jesus Christ through the empowerment of The Holy Spirit. My "pattern" is of course the Scriptures as revealed again by The Holy Spirit.

Can we not see these same issues were creeping into churches since the beginning? The Apostles doctrine is what we should follow and that puts Jesus Christ as our foundation.

 

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

 

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 29 Guests (See full list)

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...