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360watt

Holy Spirit baptism

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What is the biblical basis for the Holy Spirit baptizing some one at salvation?

When Jesus said to the disciples he would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and fire... 

1 they were already saved 

2 they were a group.. not as an individual being saved

3 when they are at pentecost and the church gets empowered to me seems what this Holy Spirit baptism was

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"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory" (Ephesians 1:12-14 KJV).

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Thanks for the reply. I get that it is meant to be receiving salvation but I don't see the Holy Spirit baptism in there. 

Are you saying when some one receives Christ they are figuratively baptized by the Holy Spirit?

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4 hours ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

God is saying that when a man is saved he is sealed with the Holy Spirit. In order to be sealed, it is obvious that the Holy Spirit is received.

Tell me about the day you were saved. What happened? What did you do?

Well, when I was 13 years old, I got an understanding that I needed to ask God to forgive me of my sins. Before that I didn't really understand.. thought I had to say 'I forgive you' to God! So I called out for salvation out of that conviction I needed to ask for forgiveness of sins.  It was while I was at our families holiday home.. called a bach here in New Zealand :)

 

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Thank you for your answer, 360. What I will tell you here is that if you are absolutely 100% sure that you are going to heaven (not 99 9/10% but 100% without any doubt whatsoever) then you should be able to pray to God for understanding and read your Bible trusting that the Holy Spirit of God which is part of you will help you understand that Bible. I gave you a verse in Ephesians that tells us how we get the Holy Spirit . . . it is a down payment on our future eternity with God. Now, the purpose of having that Spirit is so that we can have spiritual guidance as we study God's Word: "And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him" (I John 2:25-27 KJV).

So, my advice to you is to read the Book and pray to the Author of that book for understanding. When you have a specific question based on a verse or passage of Scripture that you need help with, I'm sure the brethren here at online will try to help you. I am encouraging you to make the effort on your own to study, rather than ask a broad question on a broad subject--such as the doctrine of the Holy Spirit.

Trust the God of your salvation for more than just a trip to heaven, trust him to make you a strong Christian through His Word.

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2 hours ago, 360watt said:

Well, when I was 13 years old, I got an understanding that I needed to ask God to forgive me of my sins. Before that I didn't really understand.. thought I had to say 'I forgive you' to God! So I called out for salvation out of that conviction I needed to ask for forgiveness of sins.  It was while I was at our families holiday home.. called a bach here in New Zealand 🙂

 

Salvation is not asking God for forgivness. That is not really how you get forgiveness, before I became a born again Christian, I asked God to forgive me plenty of times, But i was NOT saved and forgiven until I put my trust in the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. 

Apologizing and telling God you are sorry does not grant forgiveness, Jesus Christ’s death on the cross does. 

28 minutes ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

Thank you for your answer, 360. What I will tell you here is that if you are absolutely 100% sure that you are going to heaven (not 99 9/10% but 100% without any doubt whatsoever) then you should be able to pray to God for understanding and read your Bible trusting that the Holy Spirit of God which is part of you will help you understand that Bible. I gave you a verse in Ephesians that tells us how we get the Holy Spirit . . . it is a down payment on our future eternity with God. Now, the purpose of having that Spirit is so that we can have spiritual guidance as we study God's Word: "And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him" (I John 2:25-27 KJV).

So, my advice to you is to read the Book and pray to the Author of that book for understanding. When you have a specific question based on a verse or passage of Scripture that you need help with, I'm sure the brethren here at online will try to help you. I am encouraging you to make the effort on your own to study, rather than ask a broad question on a broad subject--such as the doctrine of the Holy Spirit.

Trust the God of your salvation for more than just a trip to heaven, trust him to make you a strong Christian through His Word.

Are you implying that if someone has any doubt about being saved that they aren’t? 

2 Peter 1:9 KJV
[9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

 

1 John 5:13 KJV
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

seems from

1st John 5:13 that someone can believe and not KNOW for sure that they have eternal life. He says im writing to you who believe...that you MAY know...that you may believe. 

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Well I have put my trust in Jesus Christ.. believing in His life, death and resurrection.

 

If it wasn't at 13 years old it would have been at university when I believed for sure. 

I'm 100 percent sure I am saved. Because of what Jesus has done for me.

I am just not sure how receiving the Holy Spirit at salvation is also Holy Spirit baptism 

 

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7 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

Are you implying that if someone has any doubt about being saved that they aren’t? 

Of course I am. Some are 'believing' that their church membership will save them, or they may believe that the "good" side of the scale might outweigh the bad side. As to your last sentence, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19 KJV). Belief in a Saviour is a far cry from trusting in the Saviour.

A wino sleeping in a gutter in a pool of his own vomit will tell you that he believes in Jesus.

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6 minutes ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

Of course I am. Some are 'believing' that their church membership will save them, or they may believe that the "good" side of the scale might outweigh the bad side. As to your last sentence, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19 KJV). Belief in a Saviour is a far cry from trusting in the Saviour.

A wino sleeping in a gutter in a pool of his own vomit will tell you that he believes in Jesus.

Well, Respectfully I do not think your position is in agreement with the word of God. the Apostle John clearly was writing his epistle to those who believed in Christ, so that they might know that they have eternal life. the word MAY in the Greek is in the subjunctive case, indicting possibility. Clearly it is possible for someone to trust in Christ but to face doubts about whether or not they know that they have eternal life. 

As to James 2:19, I see no connection between that and what we are talking about. Belief in God does not save anyone, not Jews, not Muslims, and not Americans. Most American's believe in God, but they don't trust in Christ. So I fail to see the connection here. It does not say "thou believest in Christ"..

It's true that by trusting in Jesus Christ, his death, burial, and resurrection, that we can know that we have eternal life. But that only comes after someone understands the Gospel. But I have known plenty of good who have trusted in Christ and are plagued with Satanic attacks upon them that cause them sometimes to doubt their salvation. I disagree vehemently that just because someone has doubts about their salvation that they are not saved. 

Even Abraham faltered in his faith after God told him he was going to have son, we see that Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness, but we also see that he doubted God's promise, hence the incident with Hagar and Ishmael. 

As to the wino in the gutter proclaiming that he believes in Jesus, people can say whatever they want, obviously that doesn't mean they do. But just because some claim they believe in Jesus and don't, that does not negate the fact that all it takes for salvation is simple trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. 

1 Th 5: 8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.9  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

God is no telling the Thessalonians to get saved when he says to put on the helmet, which is the hope of salvation, he is encouraging them to keep trusting God, because they have believed the Gospel. I believe he is telling them the same thing the Apostle John has in 1 John 5:13.

I believe the doctrine that if someone is not 100% sure of heaven that they are not saved is not a doctrine found in the word of God. I do believe however that it is the privilege of everyone who has trusted in Jesus Christ, to have assurance of eternal life,  but just because they have the privilege does not mean they will understand and access that privilege. 

Now if they are trusting in Baptism, Church, good works, etc, then clearly they are not saved. But I know people who have trusted in the Gospel and have been plagued by Satan. 

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The Baptism of the Holy Spirit was a one time occurrence promised by Jesus and fulfilled at Pentecost.

I do not find any Scripture showing that an individual was ever baptized by The Holy Spirit when they were saved.

1. The promise: Lu 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

2.  The fulfillment:  Acts 2:1  And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

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360watt,

Could this possibly be the reference for what you're referring to?

(1 Corinthians12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Edited by No Nicolaitans
Left a word out...phone typing!

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1 hour ago, No Nicolaitans said:

360watt,

Could this possibly be the reference for what you're referring to?

(1 Corinthians12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

My understanding of this passage is that it is speaking of the local church body.  So it is full immersion in water baptism as a pre requirement to join a church.

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4 hours ago, 360watt said:

My understanding of this passage is that it is speaking of the local church body.  So it is full immersion in water baptism as a pre requirement to join a church.

I was just wondering if that was the reference that people use.

However, I see nothing in 1 Corinthians12 which speaks of water baptism. It says that by the Spirit, we all have been baptized into one body...we all. To my understanding, this is a spiritual baptism performed by the Spirit...the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4.

Take care.

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