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Totoosart

Jews Versus Gentiles

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Greetings all,

As i am reading through the Bible, many questions pop up in my humble mind and here's one:

Why are there any gentiles when after the 'Flood' all humankind supposedly descends from Noah and then Abraham?

As it seems to me, reading the Bible, all people on the Earth are one family or have i missed something?

Thank you for your time and consideration,

Totoo

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The Jews are the nation of people that sprang from Abraham because of God's promises to Abraham.

By the time Abraham was around to be the father of a great nation there were many people all over the world.

Even from Abraham there has sprung two separate and different peoples - the Jews and the Arabs (broadly speaking).

Only those who are descended from Abraham through Isaac and Jacob are of the nation of Israel, and therefore Jews. 

The Jews then later made the distinction between their own nation and all other nations of the world, calling them as a general term "Gentiles".

This has nothing in fact to do with Noah and that all people are descended from Him - you are correct that there is only one family of men, those who are descendants of Noah.

 

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4 hours ago, Totoosart said:

Why are there any gentiles when after the 'Flood' all humankind supposedly descends from Noah and then Abraham?

As it seems to me, reading the Bible, all people on the Earth are one family or have i missed something?

Yes we are all of one blood (Acts 17:26) and descend from Noah but Noah had three sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Gentiles are the general term for Japheth's children (Genesis 10:1-5). At the time of Christ Japheth's children (Roman's rule and Greek's culture) had rule over Shem's and Cannon's (a son of ham) children, fulfilling the prophesy of Genesis 9:27. The Jewish people were the Old Testament Believers, who at the time of Christ, claimed the promises of of God given to Abraham and lived after the covenant of Israel. They called themselves Jews, after the tribe of Judea (one of the tribes of Israel) because after Israel was dispersed in the "Diaspora" (Assyrian and Babylonian dispersion of Israel's tribes), and 70 year after their dispersion (Jeremiah 25:11, 29:10-12), the leaders of Judea's tribe, with some of Levi and Benjamin, were given permission by the Persians to go back and set up the Temple of God in Jerusalem (Ezra 1:1-5). Later, in rebellion against the Greeks/Syrians, they were able to gain independence again, and made the Judean (Jewish) state of Israel, for a short time before coming under the "protection" of Rome. This occupying protection, which they at first saw as an alliance became seen as an occupation. Slowly they saw their Jewish authority being influenced and taken over by the Romans and their Jewish culture influence and taken over by Greek culture (Hellenization). This is why the Jews refereed to all non-Jews as Gentiles because if you did not follow the God of the Jews and their Jewish traditions at the time of Christ then you would be considered a "follower of the Gentile's authority and culture", and therefor a "Gentile", regardless of which son of Noah you were from.

Edited by John Young

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Dear John,

Thanks so much for your kind reply and quite clear explanation.

But i should like to suppose that after the Lord Jesus Christ we are all children of God as long as we believe in Him.

Have a great and joyous time,

Totoo

Dear Dave,

Thank you very much for your kind reply and explanation.

Sorry for the late reply, I saw John's reply before I saw yours.

Bless your heart,

Totoo

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Yes, as Christians in the family of God we should not regard these divisions as reasons to be separated from each other.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Galatians 3:27-29 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Philippians 1:27-28 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; 28 and in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.

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Dear John,

i know you are a very busy person, so i'd like you to know how much i appreciate your kindness and effort and precious time to read and reply to people's questions with such care and extent.

It is great to learn so much from a simple question and i hope i can learn and take in as much as you kind people offer and supply.

Bless your heart,

Totoo

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Noah had 3 son, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

All people groups come from one of these 3 sons, Abraham was a descendant of Shem, the Jews descended from Abraham ultimately. I believe most of your Africans came from the linage of Ham, while Shem produced the Semitic people groups and I think even the Asian groups as well. I believe the European groups were descendants of Japheth. What you have to realize is that Abraham was just one tiny branch of the human family tree during his time. 

BTW the “flood” of Noah really did happen. Henry Morris put out a great book on it and there is tons of evidence out there that there was a worldwide flood.

 

 

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Thank you Jordan,

By the way, i never dared to deny the 'Flood'.

i suppose once one agrees with religious books and views, one cannot help but move back and away from scientific discoveries and beliefs which could always and at any time prove wrong.

i heard once somewhere that the devil could have had a hand in all the scientific founding and discoveries to lead the people astray.

Best wishes,

Totoo

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2 hours ago, Totoosart said:

Thank you Jordan,

By the way, i never dared to deny the 'Flood'.

i suppose once one agrees with religious books and views, one cannot help but move back and away from scientific discoveries and beliefs which could always and at any time prove wrong.

i heard once somewhere that the devil could have had a hand in all the scientific founding and discoveries to lead the people astray.

Best wishes,

Totoo

The problem is not with scientific discoveries but the misinterpretation/misrepresentation of scientific discoveries. 

I dont fear science, but sometimes its difficult because scientists today so frequently present their unproven theories as facts, they just say those things over and over and over again and people blindly pick them up and begin repeating them. Case in point is the earth being millions of years old. Totally unproven. 

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Dear Jordan,

i have been following scientific knowledge and learning about life and nature for ever and it has never made me feel any better.

There is something about religious belief that makes one feel more secure and safe.

Bless your heart,

Totoo

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Psalm 19:1-3

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

Romans 1:18-20

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, evenhis eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

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2 hours ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

But if we agree that Ham's descendants peopled Africa then we have to account for their black pigmentation.... Now, the conclusion is that Noah's curse on Canaan has to be the dark pigmentation. Ham was the guilty party but it was his grandson that bore the curse. How have others of you dealt with this issue? I don't buy the idea that somehow the sun caused the skin color to change.

First a Christian should not care about skin pigmentation, Secondly the false "Pigmentation" doctrine of Ham (some use Cain's mark) was developed by people influenced by evolutionary thinking, who desired show why the "negro race" was inferior and deserved to be subjugated. (This thinking believed in four to seven human races that did not have common ancestors and developed separately over time and their white race being the most human with the pure white Aryan Race least tainted by the others and therefor better more evolved.). Third it is predicating the myth that it is a curse to be negro, which it is not.

Personally I don't think we need to entertain the curse of pigmentation or race "question" as if it had any actual merit in scripture other than to say that proponents of it certainly did not get it from the bible.

As for the science to why people are darker than others, that is generally explained by a working of particular genes in the body over generations and what genes were available in the pool of people who would marry with one another. If you and your group have the genes that give you darker skin and there is no one around who has genes that regulate to a lighter tone, you simply will not get lighter. This can be easily seen by the children of black and white people who marry is their children will often be a middle tone with some lighter and darker. The Australians also had a program in the older days where they were breading the "black out" of the local aborigines, attempting to turn them in to white people, by paring up lighter Aborigines with the darker ones. The Body also has a particular way of adapting to its environment and while "black" is often associated with the "negro race" or Africans many Asians Indians, Polynesians, Chinese , american Indian ect, have just as dark skin but are not associated with the "negro" genetically nor in biblical decent.

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Cush was the son of Ham.

He seems to have been associated  with India.  There was a battle years ago over an area known as the Ran of Cush.  TYhere is also an area hundreds of miles from there known as the Hindu Cush. Ham was one of the gods of Egypt.

  • Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian (Cushite) change his skin, 

 

 

 

 

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Jeremiah 13

23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

How about we actually quote the verse and show that the BIBLE doesn't refer to the Cushite in this verse?

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i still believe we are all from the same mum and dad, same family, that of Noah and whatever has come after due to the fact that, as mentioned in the good book, people have evil hearts and at some point in time they find a way to find something to cling on to and proudly say: 'we are better than you or the rest of the world because we are so and so and you are not.'

As John noted above, 

4 hours ago, John Young said:

a Christian should not care about skin pigmentation

in my humble opinion a good Christian tries to find fault with himself / herself first then try to help others.

Bless your hearts, Amen

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On 1/6/2019 at 1:23 AM, DaveW said:

Jeremiah 13

23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

How about we actually quote the verse and show that the BIBLE doesn't refer to the Cushite in this verse?

Thank you Dave I take your point,

David

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