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Eustace

Absence of Doctrinal Authority

Question

One of the big points for Baptists is independence and absence of central church authority.  However, given that the Bible can be interpreted in many ways, doesn't that leave open the possibility for perverting the word of God?  For example, many purported Christian sects today use the following:

Galatians 3:26-29
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

To justify having homosexuals and transexuals in the church.  They also use this to justify having female preachers.

On the other hand, Catholics and Anglicans have a corrupt central authority that has itself been perverted so having a doctrinal authority for a sect of Christianity seems to provide no specific protection against it being perverted and corrupted.  But it would seem to me that there is a need for doctrinal authority when there are many liars and charlatans out there perverting the word of God using all manner of semantic twisting and legalisms to corrupt Christianity and led Christians away from the path of salvation that the Lord has laid out for mankind.

What say you?

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20 hours ago, Eustace said:

One of the big points for Baptists is independence and absence of central church authority.  However, given that the Bible can be interpreted in many ways, doesn't that leave open the possibility for perverting the word of God?  For example, many purported Christian sects today use the following:

Galatians 3:26-29
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

To justify having homosexuals and transexuals in the church.  They also use this to justify having female preachers.

On the other hand, Catholics and Anglicans have a corrupt central authority that has itself been perverted so having a doctrinal authority for a sect of Christianity seems to provide no specific protection against it being perverted and corrupted.  But it would seem to me that there is a need for doctrinal authority when there are many liars and charlatans out there perverting the word of God using all manner of semantic twisting and legalisms to corrupt Christianity and led Christians away from the path of salvation that the Lord has laid out for mankind.

What say you?

If your point is damage control your argument seems counterintuitive. Decentralized local error affects far fewer souls than denominational error does. Every sect or denomination these days are in egregious error so what protections would these provide? Protestant and emerging evangelical sects is where you will find the bulk of your homo/female pastor examples. Of course their apostasy goes far deeper, these are merely symptoms.

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"Protestant and emerging evangelical sects is where you will find the bulk of your homo/female pastor examples."

Incorrect.  The Church of England is by far the most degenerate Christian Sect in the world today.

Several examples off the top of my head that you can google to verify:

1. Rampant number of female preachers

2. Homosexual preachers

3. Total acceptance of homosexuality and transexuality

4. High ranking members of the Anglican church openly stating that they should all pray that the children of the English royals turn out homosexual

That's just off the top of my head.  Meanwhile the Catholic church is only slightly better with its acceptance of: homosexuality, abortion, seeming Agnostic stance by the Pope himself, and calls for Global Communism.

I suppose my belief is that a benevolent Patriarchal church authority would be objectively good for any Christian congregation, but clearly Satan has worked hard to corrupt most of those that exist today.  The only seemingly non-Heretical church authorities are in the Orthodox Churches (Russian, Greek, Serbian, etc.).  Ukraine's Church on the other hand is rapidly splitting from Russia and will no doubt be pushing homosexuality and abortion within months, if not already.

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the Bible is our authority, Any governing body that contradicts the teachings of scripture has lost its “authority”. 

God already has given us an authoritative body, and that was the writers of the Old and New Testaments. No body can dictate or legislate doctrine. 

51 minutes ago, Eustace said:

"Protestant and emerging evangelical sects is where you will find the bulk of your homo/female pastor examples."

Incorrect.  The Church of England is by far the most degenerate Christian Sect in the world today.

Several examples off the top of my head that you can google to verify:

1. Rampant number of female preachers

2. Homosexual preachers

3. Total acceptance of homosexuality and transexuality

4. High ranking members of the Anglican church openly stating that they should all pray that the children of the English royals turn out homosexual

That's just off the top of my head.  Meanwhile the Catholic church is only slightly better with its acceptance of: homosexuality, abortion, seeming Agnostic stance by the Pope himself, and calls for Global Communism.

I suppose my belief is that a benevolent Patriarchal church authority would be objectively good for any Christian congregation, but clearly Satan has worked hard to corrupt most of those that exist today.  The only seemingly non-Heretical church authorities are in the Orthodox Churches (Russian, Greek, Serbian, etc.).  Ukraine's Church on the other hand is rapidly splitting from Russia and will no doubt be pushing homosexuality and abortion within months, if not already.

Except that Orthodox Churches such as you have described practice the heresy of infant baptism.

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Just an FYI, Eustace - the Church of England is Protestant and falls under the definition of sect in that it separated from the RCC way back.

Independent Baptist churches are dependent upon Christ and His Word. Yes, there is the possibility of going astray - many of us on this site can point to Baptist churches that have turned from following the Bible and begun following emotions/culture. But here's the beauty of not having a denominational headquarters: independent churches don't HAVE to follow rules set by a man or a group who "leads" an entire denomination. 

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Scripture firmly asserts that "the church (singular) is the pillar and ground of the truth" This is why we are Independent. Once we give up our autonomy we open our church to rule by  associations and conventions, which are nowhere to be found in Scripture.

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2 Peter 1:20 King James Version (KJV)

 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

I also like these Bible verses on this subject: https://www.openbible.info/topics/false_preachers

I say, the smaller the flock the less sheep are lost to a hungry shepherd.  This principle applies in many facets of life, but especially so in Christian matters.  The current state of the Catholic and Anglican churches illustrate this point very clearly.  Many sheep in the flock led astray by deceitful shepherds.

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On 12/1/2018 at 1:43 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

heresy of infant baptism.

Thanks for making this statement.  I wasn't really aware of the history behind infant Baptism.  I was raised in a Baptist church so I wasn't Baptized until recently as an adult.  I was going to Baptize my son at the age of 1 year but after research based on your statement I am not going to do that.  Now let me ask you how it is that I attended a Southern Baptist church for 10 years and came away without any knowledge of their thoughts on Baptism?

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On 12/9/2018 at 11:13 PM, Eustace said:

Thanks for making this statement.  I wasn't really aware of the history behind infant Baptism.  I was raised in a Baptist church so I wasn't Baptized until recently as an adult.  I was going to Baptize my son at the age of 1 year but after research based on your statement I am not going to do that.  Now let me ask you how it is that I attended a Southern Baptist church for 10 years and came away without any knowledge of their thoughts on Baptism?

Well, sadly today many churches are getting away from teaching bible doctrine and expositing the scriptures. Southern Baptist Churches today are filled with compromise, OnlineBaptist here is made up of Independant Fundamental Baptists, we are distinct and separate from Southern Baptists.

 

https://www.wayoflife.org/database/whynotsbc.html

 

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Greetings all,

I understand that baptism is a very important column in faith, but what if it is practically impossible (absence of authority) to get baptised? Would mere hearty belief in Jesus Christ save me?

Thank you for your kind time and attention.

Totoosart

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3 hours ago, Totoosart said:

Greetings all,

I understand that baptism is a very important column in faith, but what if it is practically impossible (absence of authority) to get baptised? Would mere hearty belief in Jesus Christ save me?

Thank you for your kind time and attention.

Totoosart

Yes, a mere heart belief in the Lord Jesus as your Saviour would save your soul.

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1 minute ago, Alan said:

Yes, a mere heart belief in the Lord Jesus as your Saviour would save your soul.

That's a relief, thanks a lot, Alan.

I look forward to getting baptised, if i can, but till then, sit still my heart.

Bless your heart, Alan,

Totoosart

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On 12/26/2018 at 1:07 AM, Totoosart said:

Greetings all,

I understand that baptism is a very important column in faith, but what if it is practically impossible (absence of authority) to get baptised? Would mere hearty belief in Jesus Christ save me?

Thank you for your kind time and attention.

Totoosart

The thief on the cross was never baptized, yet he went to be with the Lord.

 

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On 12/26/2018 at 8:07 AM, Totoosart said:

Greetings all,

I understand that baptism is a very important column in faith, but what if it is practically impossible (absence of authority) to get baptised? Would mere hearty belief in Jesus Christ save me?

Thank you for your kind time and attention.

Totoosart

John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

My pastor ultimately Baptized me based on Acts 2:41 where 3,000 are Baptized on a single day after just hearing the word of the lord.  The barrier to Baptism is not high at all.  But I don't think it is required for salvation either according to scripture.

Edited by Eustace

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If you have trusted Christ as your Saviour, then baptism is a good and proper thing to do, and a good thing to be desired. But you need to be certain that you are not desiring it because you think, in any way, that it will help assure your salvation. Baptism is a work - a thing we can do in obedience to God - thus to reliance on it in the least little bit for grace for salvation means that a person is not relying wholly and completely on Christ for salvation. And if we are depending on anything other than Christ alone as the propitiation for our sin (there's a good word to study!), then we are not truly saved. 

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Dear Salyan,

i have been a perfectionist in my work and in my craft. So i guess the desire to be baptised roots in that aspect of my personality, i want to be a perfect Christian, in every way personally possible. 

i do understand better now, with your and other kind friends' help here. i need to let all go and just hang on to Jesus Christ and all will hopefully be well for me.

Thank you all and God bless your hearts

Best wishes for the New Year 🙂

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Baptism is a church ordinance, it is considered the first step of obedience for the newly saved Christian. But it does not stand alone, any Scriptural responsible church would not Baptize and then just turn the newly saved person loose to be at the mercy of any teaching that happens by. We are responsible to disciple those we Baptize, not just turn them loose.

 Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 
 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 
 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 

This can only be accomplished in a local church setting that places the newly saved person in a place of church membership and accountability.

To my mind finding a Scriptural New Testament Church should be of utmost importance, this is the only entity that is authorized to Baptize. You can find some so-called church, or pastor to Baptize you, but the real concern should be; is that baptism valid?

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Thanks a lot, Jim,

Well, i suppose if i could have found a church to go to, i would probably not have found you kind people here online.

As i mentioned before, it seems practically impossible for me to get baptised since there is no church i could attend and become a regular member and then get disciplined and so on and so forth.

Thanks to other kind people above and you i have learnt that i could be saved even if i have not or cannot in the future get baptised and that has brought me great hope.

For now, i am studying the Holy Bible regularly, listening to some sermons our kind friends here have suggested and i am trying to strengthen my belief in the Lord as the Saviour and i am also trying to stop my brain asking thoughtful questions, since this belief should come from the heart, not the head.

Cheers and best wishes,

Happy New Year and may Lord Jesus Christ have mercy upon you and your family and friends today, tomorrow and till the end of time.

Stay beautiful 

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Hey, Totoosart,

We recently had a fellow visit our church.  His name is Michael Germi, and he’s from Iran.  He records messages in Farsi for broadcast. Would these be useful to you?

https://sharecmi.com/channels/farsi/

https://besharat.tv/

(I hope that was the right link… I can’t read that alphabet!) 😊

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Totoosart,

I'm new on here, so someone may have addressed your question on baptism.  Also, I'm not sure how to use the site or respond to specific questions.Baptism does not SAVE anyone.  Only by having a saving faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ will anyone be saved.  Baptism is to make a public statement of your faith.  The result is having an official place in your church family.  So not being able to get baptized does not affect your salvation.  

Edited by Pam McConnell
I forgot the last statement.

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On 12/1/2018 at 5:53 AM, Eustace said:

"Protestant and emerging evangelical sects is where you will find the bulk of your homo/female pastor examples."

Incorrect.  The Church of England is by far the most degenerate Christian Sect in the world today.

Several examples off the top of my head that you can google to verify:

1. Rampant number of female preachers

2. Homosexual preachers

3. Total acceptance of homosexuality and transexuality

4. High ranking members of the Anglican church openly stating that they should all pray that the children of the English royals turn out homosexual

That's just off the top of my head.  Meanwhile the Catholic church is only slightly better with its acceptance of: homosexuality, abortion, seeming Agnostic stance by the Pope himself, and calls for Global Communism.

I suppose my belief is that a benevolent Patriarchal church authority would be objectively good for any Christian congregation, but clearly Satan has worked hard to corrupt most of those that exist today.  The only seemingly non-Heretical church authorities are in the Orthodox Churches (Russian, Greek, Serbian, etc.).  Ukraine's Church on the other hand is rapidly splitting from Russia and will no doubt be pushing homosexuality and abortion within months, if not already.

 

Pardon me, but isn't this forum for Independent, Fundamental, Baptists?  While it is true that some folk claim that those first two words are adjectives and therefore, used loosely, none of the aforementioned wickedness/ungodliness/apostasy is in God's local churches!

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On 12/29/2018 at 2:02 PM, heartstrings said:

The thief on the cross was never baptized, yet he went to be with the Lord.

 

Yes and I heard an outstanding message on that very subject from Pastor Larry Winkler, a few weeks ago and look forward to posting it on my Sermon.net Page/Podcast, right after our upcoming Revival Meeting next week!  It's called The Thief's Creed or (The Theology Of The Dying Thief).

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18 hours ago, Pam McConnell said:

Baptism does not SAVE anyone.  Only by having a saving faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ will anyone be saved.

Dear Pam,

Thanks so much for making that more clear for me.

I am trying to reach that level of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ that would ultimately bestow His gracious Grace upon me.

Bless your heart

Best wishes and Happy New Year 🙂

 

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