I said ye are gods - John 10:30-39; Psalms 82:1-8

[EvangAlived 5]

I said ye are gods - John 10:30-39; Psalms 82:1-8

More may be seen here  - http://www.pearltrees.com/awhn/sanctuary-psalms-thy-way-god/id14724670

Citing some background:

John 10:24 KJB - Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

John 10:25 KJB - Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

John 10:26 KJB - But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

John 10:27 KJB - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:28 KJB - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 KJB - My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 10:30 KJB - I and my Father are one.

 

This speaks of at-one-ment, of heart, purpose, not of persons.

John 10:31 KJB - Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

 

They did this, because, Jesus just claimed full equality with God, that is, the person of the Father. He had done this before [John 10:25 KJB, "... I told you, and ye believed not ..."], with the same results:

John 5:18 KJB - Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 8:57 KJB - Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

John 8:58 KJB - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 8:59 KJB - Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

This would have been blasphemy [Leviticus 24:14; 1 Kings 21:10 KJB], and subject for stoning, had it not been that Jesus was who He said He is.

John 10:32 KJB - Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

 

Jesus, then knowing that they do not believe His words, mercifully points them to His actions, deeds, the very miracles wrought, the lives of people delivered from satan, sin, disease, death. Many say that actions speak louder than words, and therefore, Jesus turned up the volume for them, that these willingly deaf might hear, and have no excuse for their own evil present course:

John 10:33 KJB - The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

 

They unwittingly condemn themselves by acknowledging that the works of Jesus were "good works". They should have recognized then, the source of them, and recognize, that Jesus' actions, were matching His words, and have drawn the conclusion by following the result back to their source and see that the words were undeniably true, yet this they did not do, because they sought to justify themselves, and to justify their idea of what the Messiah/Christ ought to have been, and do. Jesus, having already told them [1], and shown them [2], that He was equal to God, that is the person of the Father, and did the very "good works" that the Father does, now attempts to show them from scripture [3] itself [rather than His present words, and present actions], who He is:

John 10:34 KJB - Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

John 10:35 KJB - If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Now, Jesus cites the scripture [OT] itself, specifically Psalms 82:1,6, in its context [see also that the priests and rulers of the people are called by God, "gods" [Exodus 4:16, 7:1, 22:28; Psalms 138:1; Daniel 8:11,25, 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJB]], which in context, meant "children of the Most High" [Psalms 82:6 KJB], all "brethren" [Matthew 23:8; Hebrews 2:11 KJB], equally Kings and Priests, under God:

Psalms 82:1 KJB - A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

There is a perfect parallelism:

[1A] "... God ..."

     [1B] "... he ..."

[2A] "... standeth in ..."

     [2B] "... judgeth among ..."

[3A] "... the congregation of the mighty ..."

     [3B] "... the gods ..."

Psalms 82:2 KJB - How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

Psalms 82:3 KJB - Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

Psalms 82:4 KJB - Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psalms 82:5 KJB - They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

Psalms 82:6 KJB - I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

There is a perfect parallelism:

[1A] "I have said ..."

     [1B] "... and ..."

[2A] "... Ye are ..."

     [2B] "... all of you are …"

 

[3A] "... gods …"

 

     [3B] "... children of the most High."

Psalms 82:7 KJB - But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Psalms 82:8 KJB - Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

 

In so doing, Jesus refers to God Himself, being in the midst of the His people, while He being the true just Judge, they being unjust judges, God defending the poor, fatherless, needy, etc, they turning away from them. The very moment that Jesus cites this reference to the Psalm, is exactly the moment of the contrast between Himself, His words and actions, and their [the Jews, leaders, Pharisees, etc] words and actions. So, Jesus' [1] words demonstrated/vindicated who He is, and who they were, [2] His actions, the "good works", demonstrated/vindicated who He is, and who they were, and even [3] the very scripture itself in Psalms 82, demonstrated/vindicated who He is, and who they were. However, more than this, Jesus is drawing a greater argument from the text, notice:

John 10:36 KJB - Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

 

Jesus, said "I am the Son of God", and in John 10:30 KJB, said, "I and my Father are one", which the "Jews" rightly understood Him, to make the claim that He was indeed equal to God, the person of the Father, when they said [John 10:33 KJB], "... thou ... makest thyself God."

Is Jesus backtracking from making the claim to be God [not the person of the Father, but that of the Son], or backtracking from the claim that He was equal with God [person of the Father]? No. He is making a perfect air-tight case, from scripture, which cannot be broken [John 10:35 KJB], from the 'lesser' to the 'greater'.

Jesus cited Psalms 82, saying that even the scripture called God's own people, "gods", meaning that they were to be just judges, even "children of the most High", and thus were all 'sons of God' in that sense, called to be like Him in character, words, actions, etc. Jesus had claimed to be the actual "Son of God", who from eternity was equal with the Father. Jesus is saying, since the scripture called the adopted persons 'gods', 'children of the most High', which none of them argued with, how much more then does the actual un-adopted, original, eternal, only begotten heir have claim to such, as "Son of God", and they all knew of the person from the OT, see "my fellow" [Zechariah 13:7 KJB], the person at the bush with Moses [Exodus 3 & 4, 23:21 KJB], with Joshua [Joshua 5:13-15 KJB], etc, etc, and the coming "son" [Isaiah 9:6] who was given from the Father.

Therefore, which had the greater claim to the designation and responsibility, the actual Son of God, or those who were later called into the family of God, through adoption, whom were all called "gods", "children of the most High", "sons of God" [Genesis 6:2,4; Hosea 1:10; Ezekiel 16:21 KJB, etc]? How then could they stone Jesus, since the Messiah was the real Son of God, and they all only called and adopted? They would to have as soon stone themselves before they could rightfully stone Jesus for the rightful claim, which was superior in every way to their claim to such. Jesus is not saying that He is not God, nor lessening the arguments and words beforehand made, nor backtracking to save Himself, He, instead is making the perfect unarguable case, from scripture that He is who He said He is, drawing from the 'lesser' to the 'greater' example. Jesus finishes by pointing back again to His actions, which were fulfilling the very scriptures:

 

John 10:37 KJB - If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

John 10:38 KJB - But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 10:39 KJB - Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

 

They did not care about all three means by which Jesus sought to show them, because, they were unjust, and proved themselves so and stubbornly wanted to remain so. They could not refute Jesus' words, actions or scripture.

Edited October 24, 2018 by EvangAlived

[Jim_Alaska 1,869]

ugly colors make reading difficult, especially in ling texts.

 

[EvangAlived 5]

13 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

ugly colors make reading difficult, especially in long texts.

 

I will try not to use 'ugly colors' (though all color comes from God and are a portion of His Glory - Light) in future.  I was only attempting to use contrast.  Apologies brother.

What did you think of it in content though?

(ps. I fixed the colours for you, ~ Love you brother Jim)

Edited October 24, 2018 by EvangAlived

[Jim_Alaska 1,869]

Well actually to be honest I don't know what to think of it. First of all it is not a "comment" it could easily be three lessons. I do think it would go very well in the :'Devotional" section of the board, that is really where most posts of this length belong.

To my way of thinking, and it is just my way, if you want comments and discussion the post should be much shorter, or possibly two or three different posts.

No offense meant, this is just the way i think.

[EvangAlived 5]

45 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Well actually to be honest I don't know what to think of it. First of all it is not a "comment" it could easily be three lessons. I do think it would go very well in the :'Devotional" section of the board, that is really where most most of this length belong.

To my way of thinking, and it is just my way, if you want comments and discussion the post should be much shorter, or possibly two or three different posts.

No offense meant, this is just the way i think.

No offense taken at all.  You should see the length of my 'devotionals'.  Hundreds to thousands of pages (kinda ends up looking like sister Riplinger's in Awe of thy Word, or Gipp's Understandable History).  :)

The point of the thread, to be succinct, is that many take a look at John 10:34 and corresponding citation from Psalms 82, and either use it in one of two (incorrect) ways.

[1] for instance, the WTS/JW use it to teach that Jesus was saying that He was not eternal Deity (God), and was simply saying that He was "God" in the way men/angels are sometimes called "gods",

[2] for instance, others non-JW, use it to teach that Jesus is indeed equal to God (person of the Father), but because of the Jews hardness of heart backpeddled from his original claim, and simply refer to the text as saying that Jesus was simply saying that He was a righteous Judge.

Neither of those two positions are correct and this thread was an attempt to demonstrate the truth of what is really going on in John 10 along with why Jesus responds the way He does.

Edited October 24, 2018 by EvangAlived