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Yabruf

Reprobates & Salvation

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9 hours ago, DaveW said:

Interesting - I don't think anyone here 8s trying to classify it as "a sin that is common to man"....

But isn't the blood of Christ enough to cover any sin that is repented of and confessed to Him?

Yes of course, Christ died for the sins of the world! But in the same way that the world is not going to heaven, either are those that have rejected his free gift, Romans 6:23. A reprobate has rejected that gift and Romans 1:21 begins to show us how this takes place.

You would agree that not all men can be saved right? That there is a point, at which a man can cross, to where he is no longer redeemable aka reprobate?


But perhaps a discussion on the reprobate doctrine needs its own thread?

Edited by Yabruf

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No I wouldn't. 

My God is able to forgive sin while a man is still alive to accept that free gift.

The passage you refer to begins with those who reject God - that is a sinner of any kind.

It continues to include evolutionists (those who replace God with nature), and further continues to include those who have done sexual immorality INCLUDING BUT NOT RESTRICTED TO HOMOSEXUALITY, and continues yet further to include everything from being argumentative, to murder, to backbiting, to being disobedient to parents.

To relate this to only one particular kind of sin is, quite simply, wrong.

And reprobate just doesn't mean beyond help.

Any unrepentant sinner will be punished for it.

Any man who does not turn to Christ alone for salvation will be punished.

But IF a man - any man - turns to Christ, confessing with his mouth and believing with his heart, that man shall be saved.

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5 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

Yabruf, are you an adherent to the teachings of Steven Anderson? 

The Reprobate doctrine is certainly not limited to Anderson's Camp in the IFB. I also hold to a reprobate doctrine. Its clear in scripture that there are people who God had stopped dealing with and in full knowledge freely reject God and fully accept the devil as their father. Where most would disagree is in being able to determine who is Reprobate with certainty. Paul appeared outwardly reprobate but obtained mercy because he did not know and many outwardly alternative lifestyles appear reprobate and are on that path to destruction but are actually confused victims of sodomite Reprobates.

John 6:43-45 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;... 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;...32 who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

John 8:43-45 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

1 Timothy 1:12-13 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Edited by John Young

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For those who may care,

I also hold to a form of "reprobate doctrine," although I do not generally refer to it in that manner, and although I do not hold to it in the same manner as Mr. Anderson or as Brother Young above.  (Note: Brother Young applies some verses to his "reprobate doctrine" that I most certainly would not - John 8:43-45 being one example.)

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On 10/17/2018 at 3:22 PM, DaveW said:

“My God is able to forgive sin while a man is still alive to accept that free gift.”

DaveW, I agree that yes God can, but will he contradict his word? I don’t believe he will, because Numbers 23:19 shows us the following: God is not a man, that he should lie…

Here are some examples of where mankind cannot be redeemed by God:

-Those who take the mark: Rev. 13:16, and the result of taking the mark: Rev. 14:10

-Those who blaspheme the Holy Ghost: Mark 3:28-29

-Those who alter God’s perfect word: Rev.22:19

In the examples I have listed above, God has made it clear that it is too late for those individuals. It really doesn’t matter if you’re still alive or not, because God has placed restrictions on certain choices and set a consequence for those choices.

“The passage you refer to begins with those who reject God - that is a sinner of any kind.”

I disagree. A sinner may reject God for a time, but your average unsaved person does not fulfill the list of qualifications, listed in Romans 1:21 thru 1:32. Maybe I’m not old enough or experienced enough, but I have never met an unsaved person who hates God: Romans 1:30.

“INCLUDING BUT NOT RESTRICTED TO HOMOSEXUALITY

I disagree. Romans 1:21-32 is speaking directly to the subject of homosexuality. Romans 1:24 refers God giving them up to “uncleanness”. Romans 1:26 refers to God giving them up to “vile affections”. Romans 1:28 refers to God giving them over to a “reprobate mind”.

Next in Romans 1:29 through 32, God lists the characteristics of the homosexual:

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Notice the word “all” in verse 29. Now your average Joe sinner has committed many of the above sins, but the reprobate homosexual is filled with them all.

“And reprobate just doesn't mean beyond help.

I disagree. The Bible has defined what the term “reprobate” means. In Jeremiah 6:30 God tells us that it means rejected. See, in the process of becoming reprobate, God darkened their heart, gave them up to uncleanness, gave them up to vile affections and finally gave them over to a reprobate mind.

A reprobate no longer has the possibility to choose God, because God has literally given them over to their sins.

“Any unrepentant sinner will be punished for it.

If by “it” you mean everything listed in Romans 1:29 thru 32, then yes they will be punished with a reprobate mind. Again don’t conflate an average sinner with attributes of a reprobate, two entirely different creatures. One has sinned the other has sinned to the point of rejection.

“Any man who does not turn to Christ alone for salvation will be punished.

Yes and that punishment is referred to as the Lake of Fire.

“But IF a man - any man - turns to Christ, confessing with his mouth and believing with his heart, that man shall be saved.

Yes, I agree! But the reprobate no longer has that ability to turn or repent. Just like Pharaoh, whose heart was hardened and just like those who take the mark….etc.

 

Edited by Yabruf

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On 10/17/2018 at 6:29 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

Yabruf, are you an adherent to the teachings of Steven Anderson? 

Yes I am. I have the privilege of being one of his parishioners. 

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37 minutes ago, Yabruf said:

Yes I am. I have the privilege of being one of his parishioners. 

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Some of the Corinthians were homosexuals who had been saved. 

Edited by Jordan Kurecki

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To those who may care to consider,

There are various grammatical and contextual "keys" for correctly understanding Romans 1:18-32.  Three of these "keys" are as follows:

1.  Romans 1:18-32 reveals a series of progression that ends with the last sentence concerning the "reprobate mind," which sentence encompasses all of Romans 1:28-32.  (Note: This last point in the series of progression is one step past the point of homosexual sin, as presented in Romans 1:26-27.)

2.  Romans 1:28-32 is not referencing reprobate behavior per se, but is referencing specifically a reprobate MINDSET.

3.  The Greek word that is translated with the English word "reprobate" in Romans 1:28 is also found in 1 Corinthians 9:27 (translated as "a castaway"), 2 Corinthians 13:5-7 (once in each verse), 2 Timothy 3:8, Titus 3:8, and Hebrews 6:8 (translated as "rejected").

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1 hour ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

To those who may care to consider,

There are various grammatical and contextual "keys" for correctly understanding Romans 1:18-32.  Three of these "keys" are as follows:

1.  Romans 1:18-32 reveals a series of progression that ends with the last sentence concerning the "reprobate mind," which sentence encompasses all of Romans 1:28-32.  (Note: This last point in the series of progression is one step past the point of homosexual sin, as presented in Romans 1:26-27.)

2.  Romans 1:28-32 is not referencing reprobate behavior per se, but is referencing specifically a reprobate MINDSET.

3.  The Greek word that is translated with the English word "reprobate" in Romans 1:28 is also found in 1 Corinthians 9:27 (translated as "a castaway"), 2 Corinthians 13:5-7 (once in each verse), 2 Timothy 3:8, Titus 3:8, and Hebrews 6:8 (translated as "rejected").

Bro. Scott, could you please elaborate on this a bit more? Specifically how this would apply to Yabruf's contention that there are people that cannot be saved.

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7 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bro. Scott, could you please elaborate on this a bit more? Specifically how this would apply to Yabruf's contention that there are people that cannot be saved.

Brother Jim,

Yes, I am willing to elaborate a bit more, although I do not have time to do so fully at this very moment.  On the other hand, I do wish to present that this elaboration requires an understanding concerning TWO questions, as follows:

1.  First, does God's Word teach that some people in some cases can reach a point in life wherein they no longer have any ability to be saved?  (Note: I believe that the answer is -- Yes.)

2.  Second, IF God's Word does teach this, then in what manner does this truth relate unto the "reprobate mind" of Romans 1:28-32, if it relates unto it at all?

Now, because the second question is dependent upon the answer for the first question, it will be necessary Biblically to substantiate or deny the answer for the first question BEFORE considering any answer for the second question.

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Romans 1

18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

 19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

.....ALL UNGODLINESS......

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While I agree that there does come a time where people may be given over to a reprobate mind. I do not however believe because of Romans 1 that it somehow means homosexuals cannot be saved. This contradicts the scripture from Corinthians that I posted earlier today! 

Edited by Jordan Kurecki

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On 10/19/2018 at 7:37 AM, Jordan Kurecki said:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Some of the Corinthians were homosexuals who had been saved. 

I disagree. The list in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 does not mention "homosexual" or "Sodomite".

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On 10/19/2018 at 8:38 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

While I agree that there does come a time where people may be given over to a reprobate mind. I do not however believe because of Romans 1 that it somehow means homosexuals cannot be saved. This contradicts the scripture from Corinthians that I posted earlier today! 

In what way does it contradict it? Nowhere does the book of Corinthians give a pass to the reprobate mind. 

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24 minutes ago, Yabruf said:

I disagree. The list in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 does not mention "homosexual" or "Sodomite".

The word abusers of themselves with mankind is the Greek word equivalent to homosexual, there was no such English word as homosexual in 1611 when the KJV was translated. Abusers of themselves with mankind is a Euphemism for homosexuals. 

G733   (Strong)

ἀρσενοκοίτης

arsenokoitēs

ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace

From G730 and G2845; a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.

ἀρσενοκοίτης

arsenokoitēs

Thayer Definition:

1) one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual

Zodhiates definition: 

ἀρσενοκοίτης

arsenokoítēs; gen. arsenokoítou, masc. noun, from ársēn (G730), a male, and koítē (G2845), a bed. A man who lies in bed with another male, a homosexual (1Co 6:9; 1Ti 1:10 [cf. Lev 18:22; Rom 1:27]).

 
 

 

14 minutes ago, Yabruf said:

In what way does it contradict it? Nowhere does the book of Corinthians give a pass to the reprobate mind. 

And nowhere does Romans 1 says that all homosexuals are reprobates that cannot be saved, plus 1st Corinthians clearly states homosexual had gotten saved.

Study your bible and stop following the false teachings of Steven Anderson. 

The teaching that homosexuals cannot be saved is straight from the pit of hell and not from the word of God.

Edited by Jordan Kurecki

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16 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

The word abusers of themselves with mankind is the Greek word equivalent to homosexual, there was no such English word as homosexual in 1611 when the KJV was translated. Abusers of themselves with mankind is a Euphemism for homosexuals. 

G733   (Strong)

ἀρσενοκοίτης

arsenokoitēs

ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace

From G730 and G2845; a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.

ἀρσενοκοίτης

arsenokoitēs

Thayer Definition:

1) one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual

Zodhiates definition: 

ἀρσενοκοίτης

arsenokoítēs; gen. arsenokoítou, masc. noun, from ársēn (G730), a male, and koítē (G2845), a bed. A man who lies in bed with another male, a homosexual (1Co 6:9; 1Ti 1:10 [cf. Lev 18:22; Rom 1:27]).

 
 

 

And nowhere does Romans 1 says that all homosexuals are reprobates that cannot be saved, plus 1st Corinthians clearly states homosexual had gotten saved.

Study your bible and stop following the false teachings of Steven Anderson. 

The teaching that homosexuals cannot be saved is straight from the pit of hell and not from the word of God.

"Abusers of themselves with mankind is a Euphemism". I only speak English, so I will need some time to verify that this is really a euphemism for homosexual. 

For now I will go with what the clear teaching of the KJV Bible says in English, which is "abusers of themselves with mankind". If God was referring to the sodomite, I image he would of put sodomite in 1 Corinthians...lol

And since we do not agree that 1st Corinthians says anything at all about the sodomite, you cannot claim that they are not reprobate.

I follow the clear teachings of scripture as does Pastor Anderson. 

Jordan, you may want to take some of your own advice and study your Bible without popular culture influencing your understanding of God's word. The only thing from the pit of hell is your irrational hatred of a man of God. Also your love of sexual deviants, that God himself hates and commands use to administer the death penalty for is definitely not biblical. 

Here is a another great verse from the book of 1st Corinthians, that you might want to read and meditate on: 1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Indeed, yet NO SINGLE VERSE throughout the King James translation of the New Testament mentions "homosexual" or "sodomite."

I see that he is not willing to apply the same standards to Romans chapter 1 as he is to 1 Corinthians 6 regarding that statement. 

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12 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

I see that he is not willing to apply the same standards to Romans chapter 1 as he is to 1 Corinthians 6 regarding that statement. 

Indeed, Brother Kurecki,

Brother Yabruf's first argument against a consideration of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 in this discussion is that within the King James translation of the New Testament it does not mention "homosexual" or "sodomite."  IF that is a valid argument to invalidate a consideration of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, then consistency in the usage of that argument would also mean that ANY and ALL verses within the King James translation of the New Testament are invalidated for this discussion, because NONE of them mention "homosexual" or "sodomite."  More specifically this would include Romans 1:26-32 in relation to the reprobate mind (as referenced in Romans 1:28).  Within the King James translation this passage does not mention "homosexual" or "sodomite;" thus if the argument is valid, this passage is also invalidated for the discussion.

Now, I myself do NOT believe that these passages should be invalidated from the discussion.  Rather, I believe that the argument itself is an INVALID ARGUMENT.  While none of these passages mention "homosexual" or "sodomite" within the King James translation, Romans 1:26-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, and 1 Timothy 1:8-11 all provide a description of homosexual/sodomite behavior.  Therefore, I would contend that all of these passages are indeed valid for the discussion.

_______________________________________

To illustrate my point in the first paragraph above, allow me to use Brother Yabruf's own phrasing, as follows:

 

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle

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20 hours ago, Yabruf said:

For now I will go with what the clear teaching of the KJV Bible says in English, which is "abusers of themselves with mankind". If God was referring to the sodomite, I image he would of put sodomite in 1 Corinthians...lol

___________________________

I follow the clear teachings of scripture as does Pastor Anderson. 

For now I will go with what the clear teaching of the KJV Bible says in English within Romans 1:26-32.  If God was referring to the sodomite in this passage, I image he would of put sodomite in Romans 1:26-32.  LOL  (Since HE did not put that word there, I suppose that I am not required to view the reprobate mind as applying to the sodomite then, right?)

Indeed, I desire to follow only the clear teachings of Scripture.  

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