Members Yabruf Posted October 17, 2018 Members Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, DaveW said: Interesting - I don't think anyone here 8s trying to classify it as "a sin that is common to man".... But isn't the blood of Christ enough to cover any sin that is repented of and confessed to Him? Yes of course, Christ died for the sins of the world! But in the same way that the world is not going to heaven, either are those that have rejected his free gift, Romans 6:23. A reprobate has rejected that gift and Romans 1:21 begins to show us how this takes place. You would agree that not all men can be saved right? That there is a point, at which a man can cross, to where he is no longer redeemable aka reprobate? But perhaps a discussion on the reprobate doctrine needs its own thread? Edited October 17, 2018 by Yabruf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted October 17, 2018 Members Share Posted October 17, 2018 No I wouldn't. My God is able to forgive sin while a man is still alive to accept that free gift. The passage you refer to begins with those who reject God - that is a sinner of any kind. It continues to include evolutionists (those who replace God with nature), and further continues to include those who have done sexual immorality INCLUDING BUT NOT RESTRICTED TO HOMOSEXUALITY, and continues yet further to include everything from being argumentative, to murder, to backbiting, to being disobedient to parents. To relate this to only one particular kind of sin is, quite simply, wrong. And reprobate just doesn't mean beyond help. Any unrepentant sinner will be punished for it. Any man who does not turn to Christ alone for salvation will be punished. But IF a man - any man - turns to Christ, confessing with his mouth and believing with his heart, that man shall be saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted October 18, 2018 Members Share Posted October 18, 2018 Yabruf, are you an adherent to the teachings of Steven Anderson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Young Posted October 18, 2018 Members Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said: Yabruf, are you an adherent to the teachings of Steven Anderson? The Reprobate doctrine is certainly not limited to Anderson's Camp in the IFB. I also hold to a reprobate doctrine. Its clear in scripture that there are people who God had stopped dealing with and in full knowledge freely reject God and fully accept the devil as their father. Where most would disagree is in being able to determine who is Reprobate with certainty. Paul appeared outwardly reprobate but obtained mercy because he did not know and many outwardly alternative lifestyles appear reprobate and are on that path to destruction but are actually confused victims of sodomite Reprobates. John 6:43-45 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;... 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;...32 who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. John 8:43-45 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 1 Timothy 1:12-13 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. Edited October 18, 2018 by John Young Yabruf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted October 18, 2018 Members Share Posted October 18, 2018 For those who may care, I also hold to a form of "reprobate doctrine," although I do not generally refer to it in that manner, and although I do not hold to it in the same manner as Mr. Anderson or as Brother Young above. (Note: Brother Young applies some verses to his "reprobate doctrine" that I most certainly would not - John 8:43-45 being one example.) Yabruf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yabruf Posted October 19, 2018 Author Members Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) On 10/17/2018 at 3:22 PM, DaveW said: “My God is able to forgive sin while a man is still alive to accept that free gift.” DaveW, I agree that yes God can, but will he contradict his word? I don’t believe he will, because Numbers 23:19 shows us the following: God is not a man, that he should lie… Here are some examples of where mankind cannot be redeemed by God: -Those who take the mark: Rev. 13:16, and the result of taking the mark: Rev. 14:10 -Those who blaspheme the Holy Ghost: Mark 3:28-29 -Those who alter God’s perfect word: Rev.22:19 In the examples I have listed above, God has made it clear that it is too late for those individuals. It really doesn’t matter if you’re still alive or not, because God has placed restrictions on certain choices and set a consequence for those choices. “The passage you refer to begins with those who reject God - that is a sinner of any kind.” I disagree. A sinner may reject God for a time, but your average unsaved person does not fulfill the list of qualifications, listed in Romans 1:21 thru 1:32. Maybe I’m not old enough or experienced enough, but I have never met an unsaved person who hates God: Romans 1:30. “INCLUDING BUT NOT RESTRICTED TO HOMOSEXUALITY” I disagree. Romans 1:21-32 is speaking directly to the subject of homosexuality. Romans 1:24 refers God giving them up to “uncleanness”. Romans 1:26 refers to God giving them up to “vile affections”. Romans 1:28 refers to God giving them over to a “reprobate mind”. Next in Romans 1:29 through 32, God lists the characteristics of the homosexual: 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Notice the word “all” in verse 29. Now your average Joe sinner has committed many of the above sins, but the reprobate homosexual is filled with them all. “And reprobate just doesn't mean beyond help.” I disagree. The Bible has defined what the term “reprobate” means. In Jeremiah 6:30 God tells us that it means rejected. See, in the process of becoming reprobate, God darkened their heart, gave them up to uncleanness, gave them up to vile affections and finally gave them over to a reprobate mind. A reprobate no longer has the possibility to choose God, because God has literally given them over to their sins. “Any unrepentant sinner will be punished for it.” If by “it” you mean everything listed in Romans 1:29 thru 32, then yes they will be punished with a reprobate mind. Again don’t conflate an average sinner with attributes of a reprobate, two entirely different creatures. One has sinned the other has sinned to the point of rejection. “Any man who does not turn to Christ alone for salvation will be punished.” Yes and that punishment is referred to as the Lake of Fire. “But IF a man - any man - turns to Christ, confessing with his mouth and believing with his heart, that man shall be saved.” Yes, I agree! But the reprobate no longer has that ability to turn or repent. Just like Pharaoh, whose heart was hardened and just like those who take the mark….etc.  Edited October 19, 2018 by Yabruf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yabruf Posted October 19, 2018 Author Members Share Posted October 19, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 6:29 PM, Jordan Kurecki said: Yabruf, are you an adherent to the teachings of Steven Anderson? Yes I am. I have the privilege of being one of his parishioners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted October 19, 2018 Members Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Yabruf said: Yes I am. I have the privilege of being one of his parishioners. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV [9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Some of the Corinthians were homosexuals who had been saved. Edited October 19, 2018 by Jordan Kurecki Roselove, Jim_Alaska, Pastor Scott Markle and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted October 19, 2018 Members Share Posted October 19, 2018 To those who may care to consider, There are various grammatical and contextual "keys" for correctly understanding Romans 1:18-32. Three of these "keys" are as follows: 1. Romans 1:18-32 reveals a series of progression that ends with the last sentence concerning the "reprobate mind," which sentence encompasses all of Romans 1:28-32. (Note: This last point in the series of progression is one step past the point of homosexual sin, as presented in Romans 1:26-27.) 2. Romans 1:28-32 is not referencing reprobate behavior per se, but is referencing specifically a reprobate MINDSET. 3. The Greek word that is translated with the English word "reprobate" in Romans 1:28 is also found in 1 Corinthians 9:27 (translated as "a castaway"), 2 Corinthians 13:5-7 (once in each verse), 2 Timothy 3:8, Titus 3:8, and Hebrews 6:8 (translated as "rejected"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted October 19, 2018 Administrators Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: To those who may care to consider, There are various grammatical and contextual "keys" for correctly understanding Romans 1:18-32. Three of these "keys" are as follows: 1. Romans 1:18-32 reveals a series of progression that ends with the last sentence concerning the "reprobate mind," which sentence encompasses all of Romans 1:28-32. (Note: This last point in the series of progression is one step past the point of homosexual sin, as presented in Romans 1:26-27.) 2. Romans 1:28-32 is not referencing reprobate behavior per se, but is referencing specifically a reprobate MINDSET. 3. The Greek word that is translated with the English word "reprobate" in Romans 1:28 is also found in 1 Corinthians 9:27 (translated as "a castaway"), 2 Corinthians 13:5-7 (once in each verse), 2 Timothy 3:8, Titus 3:8, and Hebrews 6:8 (translated as "rejected"). Bro. Scott, could you please elaborate on this a bit more? Specifically how this would apply to Yabruf's contention that there are people that cannot be saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted October 19, 2018 Members Share Posted October 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said: Bro. Scott, could you please elaborate on this a bit more? Specifically how this would apply to Yabruf's contention that there are people that cannot be saved. Brother Jim, Yes, I am willing to elaborate a bit more, although I do not have time to do so fully at this very moment. On the other hand, I do wish to present that this elaboration requires an understanding concerning TWO questions, as follows: 1. First, does God's Word teach that some people in some cases can reach a point in life wherein they no longer have any ability to be saved? (Note: I believe that the answer is -- Yes.) 2. Second, IF God's Word does teach this, then in what manner does this truth relate unto the "reprobate mind" of Romans 1:28-32, if it relates unto it at all? Now, because the second question is dependent upon the answer for the first question, it will be necessary Biblically to substantiate or deny the answer for the first question BEFORE considering any answer for the second question. Yabruf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted October 19, 2018 Administrators Share Posted October 19, 2018 Fair enough Bro. Scott; as you have time will suffice, no big rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted October 20, 2018 Members Share Posted October 20, 2018 Romans 1 18 Â For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Â 19 Â Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. .....ALL UNGODLINESS...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted October 20, 2018 Members Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) While I agree that there does come a time where people may be given over to a reprobate mind. I do not however believe because of Romans 1 that it somehow means homosexuals cannot be saved. This contradicts the scripture from Corinthians that I posted earlier today! Edited October 20, 2018 by Jordan Kurecki DaveW, *Light*, Thief on the Cross and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yabruf Posted November 16, 2018 Author Members Share Posted November 16, 2018 On 10/19/2018 at 7:37 AM, Jordan Kurecki said: 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV [9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Some of the Corinthians were homosexuals who had been saved. I disagree. The list in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 does not mention "homosexual" or "Sodomite". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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