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Brother D

Anyone in your church not a Dispensationalist?

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15 minutes ago, Brother D said:

Every Christian should know that no one belongs to God apart from faith.  And, so, Israel, without faith, is not God's people.  And, everyone of faith is God's people and counts as the seed of Abraham.

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Because your simple logic is destroyed by the plain wording of scripture.

I also notice that you neglected to say anything about my reference to Deuteronomy 10. That's okay.

 

The only difference between spamming verses that don't support you verses vaguely pointing to a chapter is at least you save some some bandwidth in your pretense of having a case.  

 

Hardly surprising that he hasn't read the chapter you suggested - why would he? He has already said that he has no time for people who quote lots of the Bible (in another thread).

He plainly has not bothered to look at any of the Bible books that I suggested, and it is quite plain that he has not read Hebrews or Romans.

Wouldn't want to do that - he might find out the truth about the nation of Israel.

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15 minutes ago, Brother D said:

You didn't explain why God said Israel is not his people, if they are his people. You didn't give me tools to read it myself.  You gave my questions to avoid giving me an answer. The Bible says be ready to give an answer. The explanation, which is true, but you reject, is that being the natural seed of Abraham doesn't make someone's God's chosen people.

Every Christian should know that no one belongs to God apart from faith.  And, so, Israel, without faith, is not God's people.  And, everyone of faith is God's people and counts as the seed of Abraham.

The only difference between spamming verses that don't support you verses vaguely pointing to a chapter is at least you save some some bandwidth in your pretense of having a case.  

 

 

Okay...my "questions" WERE answers to you. It just required for you to read God's word for yourself in order to get "the answers".

I did explain (in my first post) what you say I didn't explain. I gave why God said they weren't his people, and I showed that God still called them his people. I just didn't use my own words. I pointed you to scripture.

I never said that Christians aren't God's people apart from faith.

I point to chapters and/or verses in your case, because I hoped you would read them to find the answers...but it appears you only want my opinion. Sorry. If you want my opinion, read the references that I gave.

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4 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Okay...my "questions" WERE answers to you. It just required for you to read God's word for yourself in order to get "the answers".

Your questions are not an explanation of why God told Israel they are not his people.  Your questions don't lead to the answer you want.  And, I answered each of your questions.   The explanation of why God told Israel they are not his people is that they were not his people (and they weren't his people because they didn't have faith in God).  How many times are we going to go around with this?  

I never said that Christians aren't God's people apart from faith.

I said you, or rather Dispensationalists, say Jews are God's people apart from faith.  That is a contradiction of what the Bible teaches, cover to cover.

I point to chapters and/or verses in your case, because I hoped you would read them to find the answers

You did point to Hos 11:7, "And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him."  At best, you are arguing that there's a contradiction and using a vague verse to make you case, because God still tells Israel they are not his people.  I can't reason with you because you refuse to look at what the Bible says.  You just point to it from a distance and pretend your position has no problems.  The KJV says, "bent on backsliding".  Do you know the definition of "bent"?  How about "backsliding"?  That verse doesn't say they have in fact backslidden, and it certainly doesn't say they've lost faith in God.  So, there's no contradiction.  If they had lost faith in God, God would say they're not his people.  That verse itself tells us that there are people calling out to God.  If hey weren't calling out to God, they would not be God's people.  The faithless Jews are not God's people.  The faithful Christian, even those tending to backslide, are God's people.

 

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 Ex 3:7  And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 
 Ex 3:10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.
 Ex 5:1 And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness. 

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You do actually realise that Hosea was commanded to make his life an illustration right?

And that although his wife was determined to go a whoring, he was to go and bring her back time after time after time. He WAS NOT TO FORSAKE HER.

So to try to use any part of Hosea to prove that God has forsaken what we today refer to as Israel is simply not in keeping with the ENTIRE BOOK. But you will try anyway, because you don't actually read the Bible apparently. You certainly don't believe it means what it says.

And let's look at the ACTUAL reference of NoNics to Hos 11:7

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 7:10 PM, No Nicolaitans said:

Why did God call them his people in chapter 11 verse 7...when he had said they weren't his people in chapter 1?

NoNics said PRECISELY why he pointed you to this verse - because in it God calls them "My People" - against your constant claims - which I notice Jim has also pointed out that you are WRONG again. 

 

What did you do with NoNics' reference to that verse?

49 minutes ago, Brother D said:

You did point to Hos 11:7, "And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him."  At best, you are arguing that there's a contradiction and using a vague verse to make you case, because God still tells Israel they are not his people.  I can't reason with you because you refuse to look at what the Bible says.  You just point to it from a distance and pretend your position has no problems.  The KJV says, "bent on backsliding".  Do you know the definition of "bent"?  How about "backsliding"?  That verse doesn't say they have in fact backslidden, and it certainly doesn't say they've lost faith in God.  So, there's no contradiction.  If they had lost faith in God, God would say they're not his people.  That verse itself tells us that there are people calling out to God.  If hey weren't calling out to God, they would not be God's people.  The faithless Jews are not God's people.  The faithful Christian, even those tending to backslide, are God's people.

No surprise here, but you once again MISREPRESENT a member here for the purpose trying to make him seem foolish.

You only succeed in making yourself look like a deliberate deceiver.

 

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On 7/7/2018 at 2:32 AM, Brother D said:

If your church were around 100 years ago, no one in it would have been a Dispensationalist.  

1918?

Tough one that.  About 1900 it was maily confined to Brethren, The Catholic Apostotic Church, Prebyterians, and Assemblies of God according to my research.  It came to Baptists after the Scofield Bible was give free to their colleges.

I don't disagree that the ECF were millenialist, except for Jerome, but that doesn't make them dispensationits, Elliott and Grattan Guinness also were but they were far from it, neither does someone who mentions dispensations,  Elliott and Grattan Guinness also did.  Neither does believing thet the Jews are God's chosen peaople, Elliott and Grattan Guinness also did, so do I. Christians are also god's chosen people as Peter said we are a chosen generation. 

  • Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

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14 hours ago, Brother D said:

Your questions are not an explanation of why God told Israel they are not his people.  Your questions don't lead to the answer you want. 

 

Sir, I gave a "spoiler alert" in my first post in this thread.

 

And, I answered each of your questions.   The explanation of why God told Israel they are not his people is that they were not his people (and they weren't his people because they didn't have faith in God).

 

Again, I gave a "spoiler alert". That's where the answer is found. You may want to read it and see how it lines up with the explanation you've given.

 

 How many times are we going to go around with this?  

 

Unfortunately, it looks like too many times? 

 

I said you, or rather Dispensationalists, say Jews are God's people apart from faith.  That is a contradiction of what the Bible teaches, cover to cover.

 

Still haven't read Deuteronomy 10?

Since your concern is that I'm too vague in my references, and to help you further, I'll narrow it down a little more...Deuteronomy 10:15. Where is their faith shown there when God said he chose them? 

 

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You did point to Hos 11:7, "And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him."  At best, you are arguing that there's a contradiction and using a vague verse to make you case, because God still tells Israel they are not his people. 

 

Huh? When did I even hint at a contradiction? I didn't, did I? There is no contradiction, but just as you falsely claim to know what I "believe" about Ishmael, you now falsely claim to know my reasoning? This seems to be a serious problem with you...to assert such nonsense about others which causes others to have to waste time defending themselves from your diabolical assertions about them. Say what you want about me...I'll not play your game any longer. Sorry. ATTENTION ONLINE BAPTIST MEMBERS AND NON-MEMBERS: if BrotherD ever again makes any type of claim regarding my beliefs, and if I don't defend myself against such claims, let it be known that he is wrong about me, and my silence regarding such claims is my acknowledgement that he is lying about me.

 

I can't reason with you because you refuse to look at what the Bible says.  You just point to it from a distance and pretend your position has no problems.  The KJV says, "bent on backsliding".  Do you know the definition of "bent"?  How about "backsliding"?

 

Seriously? Man, please.

 

That verse doesn't say they have in fact backslidden, and it certainly doesn't say they've lost faith in God.  So, there's no contradiction.

 

Hey! We actually agree that there's no contradiction! 

 

If they had lost faith in God, God would say they're not his people.  That verse itself tells us that there are people calling out to God.  If hey weren't calling out to God, they would not be God's people. 

 

No...read the spoiler alert...

 

The faithless Jews are not God's people. 

 

Might want to go back and read the covenant that God made...THAT GOD MADE.

 

The faithful Christian, even those tending to backslide, are God's people.

 

I agree...maybe. It depends upon YOUR definition of "backslide". Can you show me in God's word where it expressly says that new testament Christians "backslide", or are you using old testament verbage and applying it to the new testament? To borrow a cue from you, do you know what backsliding means? 

 

 

Edited by No Nicolaitans
wrote BrotherD's name wrong

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Brother D, 

To further clarify myself, and I know that others here may not agree with me on this...which may cause some raised eyebrows when they read this, but I DO NOT believe that the Hosea reference found in Romans 9 is meant to be interpreted as Christians being God's people. It's talking about the people to whom it was said about in Hosea...Israel. The context of who he is talking about is clear to me.

Now...why is Israel still called "his people" in Romans 11:1-2? This is after Christ had died, was buried, and risen from the dead. This was after Christianity had started, yet Israel is still called "his people".

Speaking of Romans 11, you may want to read the entire chapter when you look those verses up, because there seems to be a lot of "boasting against the branches" coming from you. Take heed...

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On 7/14/2018 at 10:50 AM, Jim_Alaska said:

 Ex 3:7  And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 
 Ex 3:10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.
 Ex 5:1 And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness. 

Jim, are you trying to be the poster child for people who spam verses without any clue what those verses say?  You didn't even bother to type a single word of your own.

Those verses don't say God-haters and Antichrists are God's people, all because of what you pretend is their ancestry.  Just you and other Dispensationalists say that.   Sadly, you quote Ex 3:7 and 3:10, but not the verses in between which tells who "my people" are.   From Exodus 3:9, "the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me."   Do you get that?   They are calling to God!  They have faith in God and that is why they are God's people.

Also, another fact you Dispesnationalists are in hard denial of is that nothing in the Bible says all those Isrealites in Egypt are descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.     Exodus 12:38 describes those people as a "mixed multitude" and Exodus 12:48 explains that converts count as native Israelites.  

 

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16 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Still haven't read Deuteronomy 10?

Since your concern is that I'm too vague in my references, and to help you further, I'll narrow it down a little more...Deuteronomy 10:15. Where is their faith shown there when God said he chose them? 

Both Old and New Testaments teach over and over and over that only those with Faith in God count as the seed of Abraham.   Does Ishmael ring a bell?  When you read the Bible, to you remember Paul saying Christians count as the seed of Abraham. 

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I agree...maybe. It depends upon YOUR definition of "backslide". Can you show me in God's word where it expressly says that new testament Christians "backslide", or are you using old testament verbage and applying it to the new testament? To borrow a cue from you, do you know what backsliding means?

 "Backslide" means returning to bad behavior.  It doesn't mean rejecting God.  A backslid Christian still calls Jesus lord and savior, but has returned to some of his pre-Christian behavior.  It's not just my definition. The verse in question (Hos 11:7) tells us the people still acknowledge God, and therefor were God's people by faith.   And, whatever, God still said plainly and directly that Israel is not his people, as the Israelis did not acknowledged God.
 

Quote

 

I DO NOT believe that the Hosea reference found in Romans 9 is meant to be interpreted as Christians being God's people. It's talking about the people to whom it was said about in Hosea...Israel. The context of who he is talking about is clear to me.

Now...why is Israel still called "his people" in Romans 11:1-2? This is after Christ had died, was buried, and risen from the dead. This was after Christianity had started, yet Israel is still called "his people".

Speaking of Romans 11, you may want to read the entire chapter when you look those verses up, because there seems to be a lot of "boasting against the branches" coming from you. Take heed...

 

How is the Romans 9 Hosea reference not talking about gentiles?  "But also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people...

God does not call carnal Israel his people in Romans 11:1-2.  Paul gives his pedigree, but that doesn't make Paul's race God's people.  Out of context, I can see how you might think otherwise, but Paul isn't giving his pedigree to define God's people.  Paul gives his pedigree to appeal to racist bigots, similar to those Jesus dealt with in John 8.   If Paul meant his race, that would contradict the rest of the Bible.  If Paul meant his race, that would contradict what Paul  goes on to say in Romans 11:  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.  Got that?  Of Paul's race, just a remnant are God's people, which is a contradiction of your doctrine.  There were also many Jews/Isrealites who were not of Paul's race,  and the faithful of those were God's people.  BTW, also notice that Paul is speaking specifically at his time.  After ca 70 AD, there no longer remained that remnant- they would have all died off or accepted Christ.

Boasting against the branches?  Which branches?  The ones cut off?  Your doctrine denies that they've been cut off.  

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33 minutes ago, Brother D said:

Jim, are you trying to be the poster child for people who spam verses without any clue what those verses say?  You didn't even bother to type a single word of your own.

 

You do know that Jim is a moderator? 

 

Also, another fact you Dispesnationalists are in hard denial of is that nothing in the Bible says all those Isrealites in Egypt are descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.     Exodus 12:38 describes those people as a "mixed multitude" and Exodus 12:48 explains that converts count as native Israelites.  

My word man...no 12:38 does not. A mixed multitude went up ALSO with THEM (Israel). You might want to look at Numbers 11 for a quick reference of another differentiation between the mixed multitude and Israel...oh sorry...Numbers 11:4 since you want my references to be more precise...

33 minutes ago, Brother D said:

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7 minutes ago, Brother D said:

How is the Romans 9 Hosea reference not talking about gentiles?  "But also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people..."

Why do you only quote partials of verses? Let's look at all of it...please note that verses 22-24 is one sentence.

22  What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 24  Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 25  As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 

 26  And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 

 27  Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

 28  For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 

 29  And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

In verse 26, please tell me according to the context...

1. Where was "the place"?

2. Who were the "them"?

3. Who were the "Ye"?

4. Who were the "they"?

Then look at verse 27, and you'll see that Isaiah ALSO cried concerning who? That little word "also" continues a thought. Who is the thought about? ISRAEL.

24 minutes ago, Brother D said:

"Backslide" means returning to bad behavior.  It doesn't mean rejecting God

Hmmm...might want to reconsider the true meaning...

Original: משׁבה משׁוּבה

Transliteration: meshûbâh meshûbâh

Phonetic: mesh-oo-baw'

Definition:

turning away, turning back, apostasy, backsliding

Origin: from H7725

Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

Strong's Definition: FromH7725; apostasy: -backsliding, turning away.

Backsliding is an old testament word only, and it means much more than your definition...or the commonly accepted definition. What does the new testament say about those who "turn away"? That's your new testament "backslider"...

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4 hours ago, Brother D said:

Jim, are you trying to be the poster child for people who spam verses without any clue what those verses say?  You didn't even bother to type a single word of your own.

I have to point out this statement has been made on a CHRISTIAN BIBLE BELIEVING FORUM.

To criticize someone for using Bible verses on a Bible forum is EXACTLY why this guy is to be avoided.

In a discussion about Bible passages he puts down those who use the Bible......

Unbelievable...

Or it would be if it were not for the fact that he has constantly rewritten the Bible for his own means.

Jim's verses that this "Brother D" is critical of are entirely relevant to the discussion.

Further, as NoNics has pointed out on the RARE occasion that this false teacher quotes ANY Bible, he quotes only partial verses evidently to remove them from their context.

1 Cor 2

13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

And;

Heb 4:12

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

Edited by DaveW

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6 hours ago, Brother D said:

Jim, are you trying to be the poster child for people who spam verses without any clue what those verses say?  You didn't even bother to type a single word of your own.

FYI what I posted is not SPAM, Incidentally SPAM is spelled with all caps. Definition of SPAM: "irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients."

God doesn't need me to insert words of my own when what He says is sufficient and the context plainly defines who His people are. I'll stick with what the Bible says, rather than what you and your intentional, misleading ideas tout.

Those verses don't say God-haters and Antichrists are God's people, all because of what you pretend is their ancestry.  Just you and other Dispensationalists say that.   Sadly, you quote Ex 3:7 and 3:10, but not the verses in between which tells who "my people" are.   From Exodus 3:9, "the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me."   Do you get that?   They are calling to God!  They have faith in God and that is why they are God's people.

Even kids in our Sunday School classes know who "the children of Israel" are, and that they are His people. Yes, they are calling to God, I really do get that. But you refuse to acknowledge that it is National Israel that is doing the calling; otherwise known as "The children of Israel".

 

 

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4 hours ago, Brother D said:

 

Yes, I quoted you without quoting you...just so you'd notice it.

You still haven't read Deuteronomy 10, have you? Or...you've read it, and you haven't yet found a way to "wrest the scripture". 

I learned long ago to show grace when it's due. I started off with grace with you...but I was quickly shown that with you sir, it's not due. You have been given more than the biblical two admonitions (no, I won't give you chapter and verse...look it up for yourself). As far as I'm concerned, and I'm sad to say it, you are a heretic. So go ahead and tell others (within your belief system) how "No Nicolaitans" treated you wrongly and can't discern scripture aright. Give them the link here so they can see it. One day, we will BOTH have to give an account for what we've done and said here. I've taken God at his word without redefining what he plainly said or jumping through hoops to "explain" what he meant when he supposedly didn't say what he meant. Have you? Go ahead and boast against the branches if you dare...I'll rest in the truth of God's word...which will stand forever...

If you ever reach the place; in which, you realize that you could be wrong, I will gladly and lovingly try to help you. I hope and pray that you will.

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20 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

My word man...no 12:38 does not. A mixed multitude went up ALSO with THEM (Israel). You might want to look at Numbers 11 for a quick reference of another differentiation between the mixed multitude and Israel...oh sorry...Numbers 11:4 since you want my references to be more precise...

R:e Ex 12:38 ALSO and THEM are translator interpolations.  Those words are not in the MT.  However, on second thought, I withdraw this verse from my case because it's not compelling. 

 

Quote

 

In verse 26, please tell me according to the context...

1. Where was "the place"?

2. Who were the "them"?

3. Who were the "Ye"?

4. Who were the "they"?

 

1) Israel

2) Gentiles

3) Israel

4) Gentiles

Paul uses Hosea, "As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people" to support his statement, "But also of the Gentiles".  Your attempt to spin Paul's statement fails because the church is Israel, but your argument requires that the church being something else.   If the church were something else, you would have just made Paul contradict himself.

Backsliding is an old testament word only, and it means much more than your definition...or the commonly accepted definition. What does the new testament say about those who "turn away"? That's your new testament "backslider"...

We don't have to worry about a definition of backslide because the verse you point to in the KJV, to contradict God saying to Israel "you are not my people", says "they called them to the most High".  The KJV is a bit confusing here, but every translation and the TR says they call to the most high.  They were still calling upon the Lord, and that is why they were God's people.

you are a heretic

You call my a heretic because I point to God saying to Israel "You are not my people."  I don't see anywhere you even attempt to explain that this verse doesn't mean what it clearly means.  Instead, you flail around trying to find other verses to contradict it.  You failed in Hosea 11:7 because that verse speaks of a people who still call upon the Lord.  You fail on Deut 10 because nothing there calls anyone God's people who aren't calling upon the Lord, on the contrary Deut 10 makes .  You failed in Romans.  

You failed to explain why  Ishmael and the Arabs are not God's chosen people, though they are the seed of Abraham.   Dispensationists don't even show an ability to understand the most simplest things, such as that Ishmael contradicts their doctrine.  Instead, in absolute failure of reason, they insist Ishmael doesn't contradict their doctrine because God didn't choose him, the seed of Abraham -- they can't see the forest because of the log in their eye makes them blind.

 

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1 hour ago, Brother D said:

R:e Ex 12:38 ALSO and THEM are translator interpolations.  Those words are not in the MT. 

Well folks this says it all.....

Read it carefully.

Actually you don't need to read it carefully.

Not all of the words in the Bible are from God.

That is what this HERETIC says.

So we must then ask the question "How do you, sir, decide WHICH WORDS are actually the Bible and which words are not?"

By what authority do you designate some words "God's Word" and other words "Additional, non-inspired words"?

This statement shows the reality of what we are dealing with here - this man does not even believe that all of the Bible is the Bible.

This is why he is so cavalier about redefining terms, rewriting the Bible as he tried to do earlier, and why he is so offended at those of us who have quoted the Bible in response to him.

I have to ask this man, exactly what 1900's fundamentals he holds to, because I can say with certainty that any fundamentalist who actually is a fundamentalist believes that the WHOLE BIBLE IS GOD'S WORD.

 

So now we see that this guy decides what is literal and what is not according to his OWN IDEAS OF WHAT IS REASONABLE AND ABSURD, and we have no idea what standard he sues to decide what is and what isn't actually part of the Bible, but HE CERTAINLY DOESN'T BELIVE THAT THE BIBLE IN ITS ENTIRETY IS THE WORD OF GOD.

So much for this:

2Ti 3:15-17  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (16)  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17)  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 

UN-BEL-IEV-A-BLE...…….

 

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1 hour ago, Brother D said:

You failed to explain why  Ishmael and the Arabs are not God's chosen people, though they are the seed of Abraham.

Actually, you have been given plenty of direction to the answer of this FROM THE BIBLE, but you refuse to do even the most basic study OF THE BIBLE to find the answer.

Oh that's right - you don't believe the Bible is God's Word - at least not all of it - so what is the point of studying it?

You would most likely just tell us that the verses that explain it either are not legitimate verses - added in by someone at sometime - or they do not mean what they seem to mean because it is doesn't fit your idea of reasonable.

 

For the benefit of others who will read this - the simple answer to this is that God Himself, IN HIS WORD designated the line specifically.

Gen_50:24  And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

Exo_2:24  And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

Exo_3:6  Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Exo_3:15  And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Mat 22:32  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Act_3:13  The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

 

Act_7:32  Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

The line was never to go through Ishmael, and it was never to go through Esau - so, BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO LITTLE REGARD FOR GOD'S WORD that you would not even do the most basic Bible study on this matter, I have supplied it to answer your juvenile accusation. This is just a small selection of such verses by the way.

 

Funny to note also that some of these verses not only answer his false accusation, but they also note in clear terms that the physical lineage of Abraham, through Isaac, and then through Jacob would be the beneficiaries of the promise of the land, and also that HE would be known FOR EVER as "The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob," and that this name would be God's "memorial unto all generations." (See Exodus 3:15 above).

This is extremely clear that this was relating to the physical line, the physical land, and that it was a "for Ever" promise, and as if to enhance and ensure there is no misunderstanding it says "to all generations".

God is the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob. He was, is, and ever will be known by that name. And such a name itself denotes the physical lineage.

Edited by DaveW

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7 hours ago, Brother D said:

R:e Ex 12:38 ALSO and THEM are translator interpolations.  Those words are not in the MT.  However, on second thought, I withdraw this verse from my case because it's not compelling. 

 

Hmmm...strange that those words aren't italicized. Wonder why? Do you read the Masoretic text? Do you read Hebrew and Aramaic? Here's one for you...almost none of the words in the King James (or any other translation) are in the MT or TR! They are t...r...a...n...s...l...a...t...i...o...n...s. I'll stick with the knowledge of the King James' translators over your translating abilities.

 

1) Israel

2) Gentiles

 

Wrong.

 

3) Israel

4) Gentiles

 

Wrong.

 

Paul uses Hosea, "As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people" to support his statement, "But also of the Gentiles". 

 

Wrong.

 

Your attempt to spin Paul's statement fails because the church is Israel, but your argument requires that the church being something else.   If the church were something else, you would have just made Paul contradict himself.

 

Sigh...

 

Quote

 

 

We don't have to worry about a definition of backslide because the verse you point to in the KJV, to contradict God saying to Israel "you are not my people", says "they called them to the most High".  The KJV is a bit confusing here, but every translation and the TR says they call to the most high.  They were still calling upon the Lord, and that is why they were God's people.

 

Wrong.

 

You call my a heretic because I point to God saying to Israel "You are not my people." 

 

Wrong. I call you a heretic for more than that. You came here heretical. You were admonished multiple times for multiple things, but you continue to be a heretic. Might want to look up the meaning of "heretick".

 

I don't see anywhere you even attempt to explain that this verse doesn't mean what it clearly means.  Instead, you flail around trying to find other verses to contradict it.  You failed in Hosea 11:7 because that verse speaks of a people who still call upon the Lord.  You fail on Deut 10 because nothing there calls anyone God's people who aren't calling upon the Lord, on the contrary Deut 10 makes .  You failed in Romans.  

 

Wrong. You still haven't read Deuteronomy 10, have you...

 

You failed to explain why  Ishmael and the Arabs are not God's chosen people, though they are the seed of Abraham.   

 

This? Again? If you have even rudimentary biblical knowledge, then you know the answer to this yourself. 

 

Dispensationists don't even show an ability to understand the most simplest things, such as that Ishmael contradicts their doctrine.  Instead, in absolute failure of reason, they insist Ishmael doesn't contradict their doctrine because God didn't choose him, the seed of Abraham -- they can't see the forest because of the log in their eye makes them blind.

Sigh...

 

Edited by No Nicolaitans

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On 7/6/2018 at 6:11 PM, Brother D said:

Just as a clarification by "dispensationalism", I don't mean the doctrine of successive ages, such as the dispensation of law.  But, the doctrine of two concurrent peoples of God, one by faith and the other by race.

What you are referring to is replacement theology which basically confuses Church and State. Israel is a nation. Its father is Jacob. They are a servant people by flesh. The church is a priesthood its father is God, they are sons by Spirit. It is possible to be saved and not part of Israel. It is also possible to be saved and part of Israel. It is also possible to be lost and part of Israel. Acts 15 shows clearly Jews were of Israel and Christ but the Gentiles were just of Christ without needing to be of Israel at all. 

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7 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Hmmm...strange that those words aren't italicized. Wonder why? Do you read the Masoretic text? Do you read Hebrew and Aramaic? Here's one for you...almost none of the words in the King James (or any other translation) are in the MT or TR! They are t...r...a...n...s...l...a...t...i...o...n...s. I'll stick with the knowledge of the King James' translators over your translating abilities.

Yes, I read the Masoretic text.  Besides, I already passed on pursuing the mixed multitude argument, but for another reason.

Quote

 

>Paul uses Hosea, "As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people" to support his statement, "But also of the Gentiles". 

 

Wrong.

 

Wrong.

Quote

Wrong. You still haven't read Deuteronomy 10, have you...

Nothing in Deut 10 contradicts God saying to Israel they are not God's people.  Nothing there that contradicts Jesus telling descendants of Jacob that they are children of the Devil.   Nothing there that contradicts Paul saying not all Israel is Israel.   Nothing there that supports Dispensationalism.  

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44 minutes ago, Brother D said:

Yes, I read the Masoretic text.  Besides, I already passed on pursuing the mixed multitude argument, but for another reason.

Wrong.

 

Wrong.

 

Nothing in Deut 10 contradicts God saying to Israel they are not God's people.  Nothing there that contradicts Jesus telling descendants of Jacob that they are children of the Devil.   Nothing there that contradicts Paul saying not all Israel is Israel.   Nothing there that supports Dispensationalism.  

 

Huh? Sir, do you even recall my reason for pointing you to Deuteronomy 10?

It doesn't matter any longer. I'm now bowing out of this thread.

 

 

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5 hours ago, John Young said:

What you are referring to is replacement theology which basically confuses Church and State. Israel is a nation. Its father is Jacob. They are a servant people by flesh. The church is a priesthood its father is God, they are sons by Spirit. It is possible to be saved and not part of Israel. It is also possible to be saved and part of Israel. It is also possible to be lost and part of Israel. Acts 15 shows clearly Jews were of Israel and Christ but the Gentiles were just of Christ without needing to be of Israel at all. 

Dispensationalism was only popularized in the late 20th-century, mainly by Pentecostal preachers.  It's not biblical nor the traditional view of Baptists.  

How are Jews who reject God his servants?   Besides, it's not true that Jews are descendants of Jacob. Jews are a religion, not a race.

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On 7/14/2018 at 3:08 AM, Brother D said:

DaveW, you're a hateful troll and I will no longer be replying to you. 

Name calling is unacceptable here. It will not be tolerated, so this is a first and last warning. I would have addressed this earlier, but I didn't see it.

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