Administrators HappyChristian Posted July 23, 2008 Administrators Share Posted July 23, 2008 But I've always been taught that give back what God has given to us' date=' by tithing 10% of how much money you receive.[/quote'] Kaycee, if that is what you have been taught (and I agree with you on that, as does my hubby), you need to go with that. I don't know if any of the men who have been responding realize that you are only 13. I think that questions that you have like this need to be directed to your dad, if he's saved, or your pastor and/or youth pastor. That's my opinion, but it is not a good idea to allow what your parents are teaching you to be undermined by other men's teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KayceeLochner Posted July 23, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 23, 2008 Well, it's not that I was asking if we should tithe or not, but the very first question that I posted on here was: Where did 10% come from, and so far it has always gone off the topic. And so this whole post is pretty much on tithing, not on 10%. So I think it's necessary that I close this thread if it keeps getting off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted July 23, 2008 Members Share Posted July 23, 2008 But I've always been taught that give back what God has given to us' date=' by tithing 10% of how much money you receive.[/quote'] We should give to God. And it takes money to run a church; i.e., electricity, sanitation, custodial work, etc.. But, as tithing was never commanded in the New Testament, and as it was only for the Israelites according to the Book of Numbers, Gentile New Testament Churches today have no authority to put people under a yoke of bondage by telling them God demands a tithe of their money. If we are not going to follow the law of tithing to a tee;, then we are not tithing. Tithe was of crops, flocks, and herds. On occasion, if the tithe was too heavy to carry to the city one needed to take it, one could sell the tithe and then when they got to their destination, they had to buy back the tithe and there eat the tithe. It was not a vacation contrary to what one called it. I said it a couple years ago and will say it again, to demand a tithe of money from one's congregation is fleecing the flock. Many go without food because they were afraid if they did not tithe, God would curse them. Many without medicine. To demand tithe from the poor, the orphans and the widow is not Scriptural. According to the New Testament, the Church should be providing for these people... not these people providing for the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted July 23, 2008 Administrators Share Posted July 23, 2008 I agree!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted July 23, 2008 Members Share Posted July 23, 2008 Kaycee, We have answered the 10% question. Scroll through the posts. It is actually what you are referring to as 10% as to whether it is off topic or not. If you are referring to 10% of our money, that was instated some time after the Holy Bible was completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted July 23, 2008 Members Share Posted July 23, 2008 But I've always been taught that give back what God has given to us' date=' by tithing 10% of how much money you receive.[/quote'] I was taught we are to tithe. We tithed for many, many years. One day I read a little something a preacher wrote about the tithe not being for Christians. What I read didn't go into a lot of detail but it prompted me to study the Scriptures myself. I looked up some books which promote tithing for Christians and some books that say the tithe is not for Christians as well as looking up aspects of tithing and giving in Scripture and I compared all that I discovered in Scripture with what I read in the books. What I discovered was how clear Scripture is that the tithe was for Old Testament Jews and not for Christians. The tithe promoters have no Scriptural support for their viewpoint. Meanwhile, if one reads Acts through Revelation it's very clear how and why we Christians are to give today and it has nothing to do with any tithe. The tithe is one of those things that's become a tradition in many churches, a tradition they fear to give up. God doesn't have to compel His people to give today because today His people have the Holy Ghost within them. As we follow the guidance of the Holy Ghost and submit our lives to Christ we give abundantely as God prospers, just as God directs, and we do this out of a cheerful, loving heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted July 23, 2008 Members Share Posted July 23, 2008 One more thing about Melchizedek: It would make no sense whatsoever if Melchizedek was a Christophany that Abram would only give 10% of the spoils of war to Melchizedek and the other 90% to a wicked king, whit Melchizedek standing nearby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted July 23, 2008 Members Share Posted July 23, 2008 This reminds me of something J. Veron McGee wrote about. During the Great Depression a man who worked for Coke and was making a lot of money asked his preacher why he never preached on the tithe. He boasted as to how he always tithes. The preacher told him the tithe was not for Christians. Christians, he explained, were to give out of the abundance God had blessed them with. The preacher pointed out there were families in the church who would literally starve to death if they tithed at that time. However, people like him (the wealthy man who worked for Coke) should be giving much more than a tenth of what they have at times like this. In fact, the preacher stated that with his wealth, which came from the Lord, he should probably be giving about 50% during that time. Needless to say, this man never mentioned the tithe again nor did he boast about being a tither. We Christians are to give according to how the Lord has prospered us. Those who are blessed with more are expected to give/do more. The fact is, the New Testament is clear that we Christians are to care for one another; the rich helping those who are poorer; those with certain talents helping those who lack such talents. From Acts to Revelation there is no mention of Christians tithing nor of them being commanded to tithe or expected to tithe. What is put forth is that Christians are to submit their hearts to the Lord and out of their hearts they are to give to and care for the church, Christians workers (pastors, missionaries, etc.), the poor, widows, orphans, etc. We are to submit our hearts to the Lord so much that as God prospers us whatever abundance we have above our needs is something we are willing to cheerfully give to meet these needs. Scripture is clear that we are to see others as better than ourselves, we are to meet the needs of our families and our church and our brothers and sisters in Christ and help the poor. The examples of Scripture are clear as the early Christians were willing to give their all in this matter. The rich didn't concern themselves with hoarding an abundance to themselves but rather gave freely to meet the needs. The poor Christians didn't attempt to grab what they could for themselves, but rather they gave as they could while humbly accepting help from their brothers and sisters in Christ. We see in the Corinthian church during a time of prosperity for them and a time of famine in Jerusalem how they gave out of their abundance to help their brothers and sisters in Christ in Jerusalem. Paul makes mention of how good this is and how when the time comes when they face need other Christians who God is prospering will come to their aid. We Christians are to be a family with all we have at our Fathers feet for His use in caring for the family. Those who have a lot hide behind tithing in order to have much money to spend on their own lust. Can't remember the verse, but there is a verse which states whom much is given much is expected, they ignore that verse. But some have always been taught tithing, so they stick with it, even thought its not biblical. Many pastors think they will get more money by preaching tithing, many will never get off of the subject of tithing, brining it up at every opportunity they find to try and make people feel guilty of robbing the Lord in order to make them give more and more while they make the poor people go without while living the good life their self. I fail to understand the threat to lock this topic, there is no doubt the question has been answered. Tithing and 10 % go hand in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LindaR Posted July 23, 2008 Members Share Posted July 23, 2008 Those who have a lot hide behind tithing in order to have much money to spend on their own lust. Can't remember the verse, but there is a verse which states whom much is given much is expected, they ignore that verse. But some have always been taught tithing, so they stick with it, even thought its not biblical. Many pastors think they will get more money by preaching tithing, many will never get off of the subject of tithing, brining it up at every opportunity they find to try and make people feel guilty of robbing the Lord in order to make them give more and more while they make the poor people go without while living the good life their self. I fail to understand the threat to lock this topic, there is no doubt the question has been answered. Tithing and 10 % go hand in hand. :amen: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted July 23, 2008 Members Share Posted July 23, 2008 Well,my "Giviing out of Necessity" thread got locked, even though I think the subject was a little different from this one. The point was, You may tithe, give offerings and your car may tear up anyway, you may have a huge hospital bill. You may even go bankrupt and lose everything. To stand behind the pulpit and threaten people, that if they don't tithe, they will suffer some financial loss when "God gets his money" is just wrong. Notice that I already stated that I tithe and give offerings...so please don't say that I'm speaklign out AGAINST tithing. [size=150]First you claim you dont' do it.....[/size] (Jerry) [quote][size=150]I have never done that. I know there are many bad preachers (in whatever camp) that have done so to bring in more money.[/size] Though it is Biblical to point out God's promises and consequences for not obeying. Yes, the Scriptures do teach that God won't bless when we withhold our tithes and offerings. I still believe those passages apply today - obviously we are never going to agree on that fact; however, that will always be the perspective I come from. Malachi 3:7-11 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. Proverbs 3:9-10 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. The opposite of God not rebuking the devourer and blessing would be the devourer devouring and cursing. That could certainly apply to crops that don't produce as much, extra/unexpected bills devouring our finances or resources. Different context - but here is one example of what happened to God's people when they put themselves and their needs or desires before God and His will: Haggai 1:5-6 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways. Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.[/quote] [size=150]Then Defend it[/size] [quote]Are you arguing with God? I quote several passages from the Bible. You are telling us that if someone actually preaches those passages that they are doing wrong? Blame God if you don't like what He said and how He said it.[/quote] [size=150]Then accuse me of being against tithing[/size] [quote]Various times I have quoted 1 Corinthians 8 - which obviously refers to and applies OT tithing laws to the church as the principle for taking care of the men of God and their families - exactly what it went towards in the OT. 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 refers to bringing their tithes to the storehouse - the local church. Also, Hebrews 7 refers to tithing in the present tense (and it was written sometime around 60 AD), and does not speak against it. You may disagree with Christians tithing today - but it gets tiring to hear you and others state the NT does not teach tithing.[/quote] Where did say I disagreed with tithing? What is this debate tactic called?? Read it again, sir, I tithe and give offerings. Want me to say it again? What I disagree with is telling people that God "will get his money one way or the other" using threat tactics to get money. Sir, you can tithe all you want to and the car is still gonna break down sooner or later and the doctor bills WILL come anyway. And just because someone has a financial loss, doesn't mean they weren't tithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Pastor Matt Posted July 23, 2008 Administrators Share Posted July 23, 2008 I do not know of anyone on this board that believes in getting behind the pulpit and threaten people for money. This horrible tactic has nothing to do with tithing, but rather just being a bad preacher. This tatic has been used by tithing believing preachers and non-tithing preachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 [quote="BroMatt"]I do not know of anyone on this board that believes in getting behind the pulpit and threaten people for money. This horrible tactic has nothing to do with tithing, but rather just being a bad preacher. This tatic has been used by tithing believing preachers and non-tithing preachers.[/quote] :amen: :goodpost: BroMatt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted July 24, 2008 Members Share Posted July 24, 2008 The threat is not out-and-out. Most of the time it is a subtil hint that so-and-so had such-and-such happen when they stopped paying their tithes. I have heard such statements behind the pulpit. I have even heard a preacher make the statement, "If you want to remain under a curse, don't pay your tithes. It's that simple." and "God's Word says to bring the tithe into the storehouse or you will not be blessed with all that God wants to give His children." To make any of the above claims in the New Testament Church is a grave error on the part of the speaker. God's Word declares the tithe that was the LORD's was required of the Israelite only. That did not change in the Word of God at any time before the cross. It did not change to Gentiles and Israelites after the cross either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastorj Posted July 24, 2008 Members Share Posted July 24, 2008 I gave the illustration you are referring to. If you go back and read what I wrote you will find that I would never use those examples from the pulpit. It is my opinion that God does rebuke those who do not tithe. I believe tithing is commanded and very clearly those who are not tithing are thieves. Since that 10% is God's, I also believe that he will get his money from you. However, it is one thing to believe it and another to proclaim it from the pulpit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted July 24, 2008 Members Share Posted July 24, 2008 So rather than opinion, where is the Scripture that commands the Gentile Believers to give 10% of their money to the Church? I have not found it in my KJV and have been studying it for 20+ years. The Word of God is for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness. So far, claims have been made, but no Scripture that backs those claims. Where are the Scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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