-10%-

[Standing Firm In Christ]

or a certain water as in the baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

[quote="HappyChristian"][quote="Standing Firm In Christ"]But the fact remains,

If we are to use Abram as an example to tithe, we should not only give 10%, but also give it to a pagan king, such as the king of Zedek, outside of our own land. and it must be in the presence of a Sodomite king.
[/quote]

This is just a throw in, but based on this idea, we all need to be baptized in the River Jordan...[/quote]

It is funny how one will argue to follow the tithe because it was in effect before the law, but they refuse to adhere to the principle and method of that tithe.

Do we pick and choose?

well, the law said the tithe was food, but we are no longer under the law so we give money.
well, the law said the tithe was taken to the levites, but we are no longer under the law so we give it to the church
well, the law said that only farmers and herdsmen were required to tithe, but we are going to require it of everyone.

Seems the Church is being a bigger burden to the Believers than the law itself was.

[HappyChristian]

[quote="Standing Firm In Christ"][quote="HappyChristian"][quote="Standing Firm In Christ"]But the fact remains,

If we are to use Abram as an example to tithe, we should not only give 10%, but also give it to a pagan king, such as the king of Zedek, outside of our own land. and it must be in the presence of a Sodomite king.
[/quote]

This is just a throw in, but based on this idea, we all need to be baptized in the River Jordan...[/quote]

It is funny how one will argue to follow the tithe because it was in effect before the law, but they refuse to adhere to the principle and method of that tithe.

Do we pick and choose?

well, the law said the tithe was food, but we are no longer under the law so we give money.
well, the law said the tithe was taken to the levites, but we are no longer under the law so we give it to the church
well, the law said that only farmers and herdsmen were required to tithe, but we are going to require it of everyone.

Seems the Church is being a bigger burden to the Believers than the law itself was.[/quote]
SFIC - personally, I don't see it as a burden. It's a joy to my hubby and me to give. 10% is just the starting point for us. The principle and method before the law wasn't given anywhere in scripture (that I know of) other than Abram. And it wasn't just food; it wasn't to the levites (of course 'cause they didn't exist). I know what you said about Melchizadek, and that is the reason I threw in that totally off topic statement about Jordan.

Why is tithing a burden? 10% is not that much! My goodness, would we begrudge that to God? That's really what it seems to me that people who argue against tithing are doing. I don't think you personally do that, SFIC - I believe you love to give to the Lord. Giving was established before the law, carried out in the law, and taught after the law. Again, 10% is a good guide to begin giving. Why be so vehement and make it seem like churches are putting Christians in bondage by teaching it?

[chev1958]

[quote]Of course, there was no tabernacle at that time either, so we can't take the tithe into the Church.[/quote]But when the law was established, God instituted a few rules for the tithes. Abram's tithe was to honor Melchizedek. When the tabernacle was set up, God commanded the first tithe was for the support of the priests and the tabernacle. I'm pretty sure that's where we get the idea to financially support the church. While the tithe specifically was "seed of the field" and "fruit of the tree," our society is not as agriculturally based now as then, so we have "modernized" the tithe to use money instead. Scripture allows for money to be used for tithes.

If my memory serves me correctly, there were two other tithes: one for the poor, and the other ... hmmm, I can't remember off the top of my head. I'm curious why churches don't practice those.

Those who argue that we are no longer under the law, but under grace, seem to forget Matthew 5:17-19:
[quote]Matt. 5:17-19
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/quote] Now we do know that some laws have been done away with, because of the person and work of Jesus Christ. We don't sacrifice anymore because Christ became the ultimate sacrifice, and no animal sacrifice can overtake Christ's sacrifice. Keeping the sabbath has been done away with, as has the prohibition against eating "unclean animals." But I'm not aware of any Scripture that does away with the tithe.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Tithing was never money. For the Church to say it was changes the definition of what the Word of God declares it to be.

Tithing was not required of all of God's people. For the Church to say it is required of all is putting them under a yoke of bondage that is not backed by the Word of God.

Tithing was never brought into the Church, before or after the Law.

To preach that one is to bring the tithe into the Church is adding to Scripture and adding a burden to those who God's Word states are not to be put under a yoke of bondage.

You love giving 10%? Great! Give 10%. But since the Word of God specifies that the tithe was food, and not money, that 10% is an offering, and not a tithe.

Think about it...

Had the tithe been money before the law, why would God have changed it to only food (Numbers 18)? If the tithe had been for every single child of God, why would God have changed it to only farmers and herdsmen? (Numbers 18)

Seems to me if money was a requirement prior to the law, God would have kept it as a tithe in the law as well.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

[quote="chev1958"][quote]Of course, there was no tabernacle at that time either, so we can't take the tithe into the Church.[/quote]But when the law was established, God instituted a few rules for the tithes. Abram's tithe was to honor Melchizedek. When the tabernacle was set up, God commanded the first tithe was for the support of the priests and the tabernacle. I'm pretty sure that's where we get the idea to financially support the church. While the tithe specifically was "seed of the field" and "fruit of the tree," our society is not as agriculturally based now as then, so we have "modernized" the tithe to use money instead. Scripture allows for money to be used for tithes.[/quote]


There were other trades and such in Old Testament times besides agriculture.
There is no Scripture that allows money to be used for tithes. Scripture declares tithes were to be eaten; they were always food.

[quote]If my memory serves me correctly, there were two other tithes: one for the poor, and the other ... hmmm, I can't remember off the top of my head. I'm curious why churches don't practice those.[/quote]

The third and sixth year tithes were to remain on one's property to be given to the Levites on that property, the widows, the orphans, and any stranger that happened to be on the property

[quote]Those who argue that we are no longer under the law, but under grace, seem to forget Matthew 5:17-19:
[quote]Matt. 5:17-19
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/quote] Now we do know that some laws have been done away with, because of the person and work of Jesus Christ. We don't sacrifice anymore because Christ became the ultimate sacrifice, and no animal sacrifice can overtake Christ's sacrifice. Keeping the sabbath has been done away with, as has the prohibition against eating "unclean animals." But I'm not aware of any Scripture that does away with the tithe.[/quote]

If the tithe has not been done away with, then Scripturally, the tithe is still of crops, flocks, an herds and is to be taken to the Levite for his provision because he is not allowed to own land. (Remember, they had money in the Old Testament even before the Law; Abraham was said to have lots of gold and silver). The Levite is to then in turn take 10% of what the tither has given him to the storehouse (barn), not the Church. This tithe is for the Priest.

[John81]

[quote="KayceeLochner"]Okay, that's really cool. I'll have to remember that, thanks! :goodpost:[/quote]

Our pastor recently touched on this topic. He pointed out all of the commandments to tithe were specificallyf or the Old Testament Jews. New Testament Christians are commanded to surrender their hearts to the Lord and everything they do, including giving, should come from their surrendered heart. We are to give abundantely as the Lord provides out of a cheerful and willing heart. God isn't interested in compelling Christians to give, he's interested in seeing them give from their heart.

Opinions don't really matter and what the Old Testament tithe was actually for doesn't pertain to Christians. What matters is what the Word of God says and Scripture is very clear the tithe was for Old Testament Jews and Christians are to give abundantely and cheerfully as God provides out of a surrendered heart to Christ.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If tithe was not done away with in Scripture, we cannot pick and choose which parts of the tithe we want to follow or not follow.

We must follow them according to the specifications that God set forth in His Word. He declared it was for the Nation of Israel itself and not for the Gentile nations (Number 18). So that should knock the idea of our having to tithe out right there.

[Guest Guest]

[quote="HappyChristian"][quote="Standing Firm In Christ"][quote="HappyChristian"][quote="Standing Firm In Christ"]But the fact remains,

If we are to use Abram as an example to tithe, we should not only give 10%, but also give it to a pagan king, such as the king of Zedek, outside of our own land. and it must be in the presence of a Sodomite king.
[/quote]

This is just a throw in, but based on this idea, we all need to be baptized in the River Jordan...[/quote]

It is funny how one will argue to follow the tithe because it was in effect before the law, but they refuse to adhere to the principle and method of that tithe.

Do we pick and choose?

well, the law said the tithe was food, but we are no longer under the law so we give money.
well, the law said the tithe was taken to the levites, but we are no longer under the law so we give it to the church
well, the law said that only farmers and herdsmen were required to tithe, but we are going to require it of everyone.

Seems the Church is being a bigger burden to the Believers than the law itself was.[/quote]
SFIC - personally, I don't see it as a burden. It's a joy to my hubby and me to give. 10% is just the starting point for us. The principle and method before the law wasn't given anywhere in scripture (that I know of) other than Abram. And it wasn't just food; it wasn't to the levites (of course 'cause they didn't exist). I know what you said about Melchizadek, and that is the reason I threw in that totally off topic statement about Jordan.

Why is tithing a burden? 10% is not that much! My goodness, would we begrudge that to God? That's really what it seems to me that people who argue against tithing are doing. I don't think you personally do that, SFIC - I believe you love to give to the Lord. Giving was established before the law, carried out in the law, and taught after the law. Again, 10% is a good guide to begin giving. Why be so vehement and make it seem like churches are putting Christians in bondage by teaching it?[/quote]


:amen: :goodpost: LuAnne. !0% is absolutely nothing for my hubby and I to give to the Lord. God has given us eternal life in heaven...and, I am of the mind that "You can't out give God." Where does the confusion lie? The Bible is clear on this. Tithing is mentioned all throughout the Bible. The OT and NT alike.

[John81]

[quote="candlelight"]


:amen: :goodpost: LuAnne. !0% is absolutely nothing for my hubby and I to give to the Lord. God has given us eternal life in heaven...and, I am of the mind that "You can't out give God." Where does the confusion lie? The Bible is clear on this. Tithing is mentioned all throughout the Bible. The OT and NT alike.[/quote]

Actually, nowhere are Christians commanded to tithe in any manner at all. Rather Christians are clearly taught to give out of their hearts as God prospers and leads them. It's not the amount we give that God is interested in, it's that we do it from our heart with the right attitude and that we submit ourselves to His will and give according as He leads.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Tithing is mentioned throughout the Bible. But it is never mentioned as money. It was food... Moses recorded it was food to be eaten.

It was also only a yearly tithe, yet the Church teaches people they must tithe every week. Adding to the Scripture.

[KayceeLochner]

So "10%" was never actually mentioned in the Bible, but there were other ways that the Bible explains tithing 10% of what you have???

[Standing Firm In Christ]

So "10%" was never actually mentioned in the Bible' date=' but there were other ways that the Bible explains tithing 10% of what you have???[/quote']
KayceeLochner,
10% was required in th Old Testament. But that 10% required never consisted of money... it was 10% of the crops, flocks and herds.
The 10% was not required of the poor.
The 10% was a yearly tithe taken to the Levites except the 3rd and 6th year in which the tithe stayed on your own property.
Every seventh year, a tithe was not required at all. The land was to rest that year.

I encourage you to read the following chapters to more better understand who the tithe applied to and what it consisted of:

Numbers 18
Leviticus 27
Nehemiah 10
Malachi 2 and 3

[KayceeLochner]

Okay, thanks, I'll have to look those up.

[chev1958]

[quote]There is no Scripture that allows money to be used for tithes. [/quote][quote]Leviticus 27:30-31
30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
31And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. [/quote]If an Israelite wanted to buy back his tithe, he had to add 20 percent to the priest's evaluation of the tithe.
[quote]Deut. 14:22-25
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: [/quote]
God allowed money to be used for convenience sake. Now, if you continue on to verse 26, one could argue that the money was to be used to "purchase" the appropriate tithe once they arrived at God's location. I don't think that's necessarily so, because God allows them to purchase whatever they wanted, rather than what the tithe required.
[quote]The third and sixth year tithes were to remain on one's property to be given to the Levites on that property, the widows, the orphans, and any stranger that happened to be on the property[/quote]Uh, not even close. The first tithe (the "Levite" tithe) was support of the Levites (Numbers 18:21-24); the second tithe (the "festival" tithe) was three times a year (Deut 14:22-27) to be eaten by the offerer, his family, and the Levites at the God's appointed place of worship -- not on the offerer's property -- for the main purpose of reminding Israel from where its bounty came; and the third tithe (the "poor" tithe) was given every three years for the support of those who could not necessarily provide for themselves (Deut 14:28-29).
[quote]If the tithe has not been done away with, then Scripturally, the tithe is still of crops, flocks, an herds and is to be taken to the Levite for his provision because he is not allowed to own land. (Remember, they had money in the Old Testament even before the Law; Abraham was said to have lots of gold and silver). The Levite is to then in turn take 10% of what the tither has given him to the storehouse (barn), not the Church. This tithe is for the Priest.[/quote]This position assumes that the tithes were always under the law. As I said before, the principle of tithing was being practiced before the law and nation of Israel were established. Abraham tithed the spoils of battle, which very well could have been the gold and silver his army captured, as well as some of the herds. Regarding the storehouse vs. church, that's a non-starter because the priests had control of the tithes, with the first one specifically for their support. So, the storehouse would have to be nearby to give the priests access to it.