Members Pastorj Posted June 12, 2018 Members Share Posted June 12, 2018 I may offend someone on this, but I see and hear way too many Christians make the following statements My Pastor said "...." Keil & Delitch say "..." Matthew Henry says "..." David Cloud says "..." Hyles Anderson says "..." Who cares what men say. What did God say. Bro. Matt's father is a man that I look up to and respect greatly. I have never said "Dan Souza said "...". However, it seems many Christians today have no clue what their Bible says and rely on what a man says. 1Timothy115, DaveW, Pastor Scott Markle and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted June 12, 2018 Members Share Posted June 12, 2018 “It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others. My chat this afternoon is not for these great originals, but for you who are content to learn of holy men, taught of God, and mighty in the Scriptures. It has been the fashion of late years to speak against the use of commentaries. If there were any fear that the expositions of Matthew Henry, Gill, Scott, and others, would be exalted into Christian Targums, we would join the chorus of objectors, but the existence or approach of such a danger we do not suspect. The temptations of our times lie rather in empty pretensions to novelty of sentiment, than in a slavish following of accepted guides. A respectable acquaintance with the opinions of the giants of the past, might have saved many an erratic thinker from wild interpretations and outrageous inferences. Usually, we have found the despisers of commentaries to be men who have no sort of acquaintance with them; in their case, it is the opposite of familiarity which has bred contempt” (Spurgeon, Two Lectures Addressed to the Students of the Pastor’s College, Metropolitan Tabernacle, http://www.book-academy.co.uk/lectures/index.html). ..., 1Timothy115 and Pastor Scott Markle 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastorj Posted June 12, 2018 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said: “It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others. My chat this afternoon is not for these great originals, but for you who are content to learn of holy men, taught of God, and mighty in the Scriptures. It has been the fashion of late years to speak against the use of commentaries. If there were any fear that the expositions of Matthew Henry, Gill, Scott, and others, would be exalted into Christian Targums, we would join the chorus of objectors, but the existence or approach of such a danger we do not suspect. The temptations of our times lie rather in empty pretensions to novelty of sentiment, than in a slavish following of accepted guides. A respectable acquaintance with the opinions of the giants of the past, might have saved many an erratic thinker from wild interpretations and outrageous inferences. Usually, we have found the despisers of commentaries to be men who have no sort of acquaintance with them; in their case, it is the opposite of familiarity which has bred contempt” (Spurgeon, Two Lectures Addressed to the Students of the Pastor’s College, Metropolitan Tabernacle, http://www.book-academy.co.uk/lectures/index.html). Not quite sure what you are saying, so you may want to clarify. I, however, never said anything about using commentaries or other aides in studying Scripture. However, I am disturbed by the amount of people who put their trust in those individuals. I have an exhaustive library that I use to get others opinions when studying. However, whenever I speak on an issue or about an issue I don't care what Spurgeon, Hyles, David Cloud, or any other man thinks. I don't even care what I want the Bible to say. The question is "What does the Word of God say" 1Timothy115, swathdiver, Pastor Scott Markle and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Donald Posted June 12, 2018 Members Share Posted June 12, 2018 Well said brother Satan(& self), just like every good fisherman, has a tackle box filled with different attacks and temptations, for Christians of every level. This is one of those temptations for the more committed Christian, but yet not so committed to be in their Bible’s every day. One of my personal objectives for years has been, to not have any “preconceived ideas”, that override or twists, God’s Word. Your OP, is talking about the source of all “preconceived ideas”. We are convinced about something(by someone), before we come to the Bible; Then we twist the Scripture to make it fit into our idea. Being in our Bible(studying it), every day, will go a long way to deliver us from this trap, by revealing the truth to us, about what is going on in our mind.... "For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12) Notice, the last line... “....a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." As we study God’s Word every day, He reveals to us when we are allowing “preconceived ideas”, to override the truth of His Word! 1Timothy115, DaveW, Pastor Scott Markle and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Popular Post Donald Posted June 12, 2018 Members Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2018 Hello Jordan Kurecki My slant on this subject, is also not one of being anti-commentary, but rather pro-Bible. I recall years ago, while discussing this same issue with someone, they pointed out that the Ethiopian eunuch, when needing help understanding said, “How can I, [understand] except some man should guide me?” Well, this eunuch was unsaved; But when we get saved, God gives us the indwelling Holy Spirit and we no longer “need” man’s help....... “But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.” (1 John 2:27) Now, don’t get me wrong; I am a BIG FAN of Matthew Henry and refer to him often. But I never forget that he was just a man. Over the year, I have found several “mistakes” in his interpretations; Especially in the area of eschatology. My general advice to young Christians in this area, is to stick with the “3 keys”, and stay away from commentaries for the most part. Learning to simply go to the LORD in prayer, when you have a questions. He has promised to answer our questions. By the way, the "3 keys"(to Spiritual growth), are Prayer, Bible study & Church attendance! Alan, Pastor Scott Markle, DaveW and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted June 13, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 13, 2018 12 hours ago, Pastorj said: I may offend someone on this, but I see and hear way too many Christians make the following statements My Pastor said "...." Keil & Delitch say "..." Matthew Henry says "..." David Cloud says "..." Hyles Anderson says "..." Who cares what men say. What did God say. Bro. Matt's father is a man that I look up to and respect greatly. I have never said "Dan Souza said "...". However, it seems many Christians today have no clue what their Bible says and rely on what a man says. Back the the original post: I don't think pastorj is talking about commentaries. I read it like he means Christians quoting what people in general say, or pastors. But he does ask the question, "who cares what men say?" In response I would answer, "I care what men say." What I mean by this is simply that there are men of God who do have important things to say. After all, if we don't care what men say, why listen or believe what men like the Apostle Paul say. I think in answer to this question a lot depends on who we are listening to and quoting. We certainly would not listen to men that twist Scripture, or spout their own theories. Even the Apostle Paul , when writing to Timothy said these words, " 2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also." If men like your pastor have something uplifting, Scriptural and beneficial to say, I see nothing wrong with quoting it to others. If we don't care what others say, then why even come to places like OB? 1Timothy115, Pastor Scott Markle and Alan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Popular Post DaveW Posted June 13, 2018 Members Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Pastorj said: However, it seems many Christians today have no clue what their Bible says and rely on what a man says. I think this is the key statement, where PastorJ is comparing the reading of the Bible with the reading of what men say ABOUT the Bible. I have posted about this before, and been somewhat attacked about it. The problem is that some men rely almost exclusively on what other men say this passage means or that passage means, and they don't ever just sit down and read what the Bible itself actually says. There are examples of people being commended for testing the preaching of the Word (Acts 17:10,11) and not just believing what they have been told - and in that particular case it was Paul who was preaching! But many people blindly follow their Pastor without question. Many people look to commentaries before trying to figure out for themselves what the Bible means in a particular passage. Many people seek out their "favourite Pastor" for explanations on a passage, and simply accept whatever he says as Gospel. We have even had this in evidence on OLB - where advice or explanation is given and ignored until this person or that person comments and then the same advice or explanation is suddenly accepted. I mentioned in my own thread that I probably lean too far the other way in respect to commentaries, but what I did not say then, but will now, is that I am a bit of a preaching junky. I have masses of preaching on file which I listen to, and I rarely pass up an opportunity to get to preaching meetings that are close enough. I am NOT averse to listening to the Holy Spirit speak through Bible preachers, and I rarely leave a preaching session without learning and hopefully growing. However, many people simply ignore 2 Tim 2:15 in preference to reading someone else's study notes. I am fearful for such people, for they are those who WILL at some point be led astray. Study for yourselves Folks!!! And once you have thoroughly exhausted yourself on such study, THEN, if you find it necessary, seek the advice of a godly preacher, whether that be in print or in person. Get this the wrong way around and you WILL be led astray eventually. Now, with me standing beside PastorJ on this one.... bring it on! By the way brother Jim, the reason I came here initially was for some safe, independent Baptist fellowship - a place where I could talk with likeminded people with some level of safety from attacks. I rarely post here now, because that safety is simply not evident. I write lots of posts, but I don't post hardly anything - it is not worth the firestorm that comes from what should be plainly acceptable statements among IFB. Edited June 13, 2018 by DaveW spelling swathdiver, Jim_Alaska, Pastor Scott Markle and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Donald Posted June 13, 2018 Members Share Posted June 13, 2018 Hello everyone I have been away for a while, but I am back and I have a new OP idea, ready to post, but I can’t seem to find anywhere to post it. This site used to have several areas to choose from, for posting new threads. I know this is the wrong format to ask this kind of a question, but I couldn’t find any place else to ask it. Thank you in advance, for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Popular Post Pastorj Posted June 13, 2018 Author Members Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said: Back the the original post: I don't think pastorj is talking about commentaries. I read it like he means Christians quoting what people in general say, or pastors. But he does ask the question, "who cares what men say?" In response I would answer, "I care what men say." What I mean by this is simply that there are men of God who do have important things to say. After all, if we don't care what men say, why listen or believe what men like the Apostle Paul say. I think in answer to this question a lot depends on who we are listening to and quoting. We certainly would not listen to men that twist Scripture, or spout their own theories. Even the Apostle Paul , when writing to Timothy said these words, " 2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also." If men like your pastor have something uplifting, Scriptural and beneficial to say, I see nothing wrong with quoting it to others. If we don't care what others say, then why even come to places like OB? Jim, I was probably a little too strong. I do care about the opinions of people. What I have witnessed on this site and in my life is people don't know what the Bible says. They only know what their pastor or some other man says. When you ask for Scripture, they can't give it. I was like that for many years. In college, I had a Bible Doctrines professor who forced us to write our own Doctrinal statements. It was at that time, I started to realize that I was trusting in my Pastor, not on Scripture. Pastor Scott Markle, 2bLikeJesus, Jim_Alaska and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted June 14, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 14, 2018 15 hours ago, Donald said: Hello everyone I have been away for a while, but I am back and I have a new OP idea, ready to post, but I can’t seem to find anywhere to post it. This site used to have several areas to choose from, for posting new threads. I know this is the wrong format to ask this kind of a question, but I couldn’t find any place else to ask it. Thank you in advance, for your help. Donald, we have many different forums on this board with different subjects on each forum. Please make sure you are logged in or you probably will not see all the options. Just pick a forum that most closely relates to your topic and click the "New Topic" link at the top of the forum. A blank topic window will open where you can post your topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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