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Zuno_Yazh

Let's Get Past The Four Spiritual Laws

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The Four Spiritual Laws is the title of an outreach booklet authored in 1952 by Campus Crusade for Christ founder Dr. Bill Bright.

 

The information contained therein is okay as far as it goes; but not an adequate code of conduct for new Christians just starting out and wondering what's expected of them. Follow me down the rabbit hole and I'll show you; day by day, and little by little.

 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

Acts 15:20a . . Abstain from pollutions of idols

 

Here's the text of a common Christian prayer.

 

"Bless us, Oh Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to receive from thy bounty through Christ, Our Lord. Amen."

 

That prayer credits the providence of God and His son for the nourishment on the table. Well; in the old Roman world, they sometimes credited the providence of a pagan god for their nourishment.

 

Acts 15:20b . . Abstain from fornication

 

The koiné Greek word for "fornication" is porneia (por-ni'-ah) which refers to harlotry; viz: promiscuity, e.g. adultery, incest, shacking up, one night stands, sleeping around, and/or carnality related to one's religious ideology, e.g. the Rajneesh movement that once operated a large community in Antelope Oregon.

 

Acts 15:20c . . Abstain from things strangled

 

The meat of a strangled animal is different than that of a butchered animal. Though a strangled animal may be brain dead, it's flesh will be viable for a bit because the blood in its veins still has usable oxygen in it.

 

Acts 15:20d . . Abstain from blood

 

There are cultures that poke holes in cows' necks in order to drink blood straight out of the animal utilizing its own blood pressure like a tap to fill their cups. Other cultures cut open the thorax of animals freshly taken in hunting in order to take blood-soaked bites of the animal's heart. Those examples are probably about as close to vampirism as one can get without actually joining Edward Cullen's family and undergoing the conversion process.

 

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Edited by Zuno_Yazh

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50 minutes ago, Zuno_Yazh said:

Here's the text of a common Christian prayer.

That is not common amongst my friends. 

Are you promoting or criticising the four spiritual laws?

How about you just state plainly what your agenda is?

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31 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Are you promoting or criticising the four spiritual laws?

How about you just state plainly what your agenda is?

 

The Four Spiritual Laws is the title of an outreach booklet authored in 1952 by Campus Crusade for Christ founder Dr. Bill Bright.

 

The information contained therein is okay as far as it goes; but not an adequate code of conduct for new Christians just starting out and wondering what's expected of them. Follow me down the rabbit hole and I'll show you; day by day, and little by little.

 

/

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With your recent effort, I am not willing to follow you down any sort of hole - I am seriously worried about where you intend to lead people.

And you need to know that I and others will be watching very closely for MORE false doctrine. You have already shown that you like to redefine what the Bible says to suit what you want to believe.

 

Why don't you let us all know what it is you are trying to sell to us?

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Aren't these merely what the apostles...when the matter of believers being required to keep the law in addition to grace...stated that if they (believers) did those things, they would do --> "well"? In other words, it would be well for them...it would profit them...to abide by those things; however, I see no indication that they are actual laws for Christians...

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47 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Why don't you let us all know what it is you are trying to sell to us?

 

I am not a salesman; I am a herald doing just exactly what Christ ordered.

 

Matt 28:18-20 . . And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you

 

Christ's commands aren't limited to the Gospels; they continue right on into the epistles of Paul, James, Peter, Jude, and John.

 

1Cor 14:37-38 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

1Thess 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

 

I have nothing to gain by your compliance with Christ's commands, nor do I have anything to lose by your non compliance. But there are plenty of people out there in cyberspace who have plenty to lose by my silence.

 

I once heard tell of an autistic boy who said to his dad that airplanes fly so high because he isn't afraid of heights. You see; in the boy's mind, air traffic control is designed to accommodate his personal feelings about altitude.

 

Point being: when certain personality types have been on an internet forum for a while they tend to become not only territorial, but also somewhat bigoted and intolerant.

 

Senior forum members also tend to be quarrelsome and bossy; somehow assuming that their lengthy tenure grants them a license to police a forum, dictate its use; and manage it like a fraternity.

 

Back in the heyday of CB radio, we used to call those kinds of breakers channel bosses; which was a polite way of calling somebody a nuisance. (There was a cuss word modifying "nuisance" but seeing as how forum etiquette requires keeping a civil tongue in one's head, I can't repeat it.)

 

I urge you to stop making a nuisance of yourself DaveW. Have some consideration for the thoughts and feelings of others. As CBers used to say back in the day: Let the channel roll.

 

FYI: The internet is a mission field. Never forget that what you post on here can be seen world wide.

 

/

Edited by Zuno_Yazh

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If I came into your house, or into your church, and without getting to know your family or your church, or letting them get to know me, took it upon myself to teach the people in your family or your church, would you just sit back and let it happen? Would your Pastor just sit back and let some stranger come in and start teaching?

And if I started teaching something that you knew to be unscriptural to your family or your church, wouldn't you address it?

In my experience, people who just arrive at a forum and start to teach in big chunks are usually false teachers trying to get their teaching in before they get banned.

I am NOT making a nuisance of myself - I am trying to determine what it is exactly that you are trying to teach - some it so far is quite plainly false teaching, and then with that track record, you ask people to follow you down a rabbit hole?

I would venture to say that the "rabbit hole" you are trying to lead us down is actually inhabited by a snake.........

You can tell me to shut up all you like, but I will not let you teach false doctrine unchallenged - and neither will many others.

So again, why not lay your cards on the table and let us know what your doctrinal position is, and what you are trying to sell. I am pretty sure you won't have many buyers here.

Tell us who you are and why you are here - and not just generically "to teach truth" or some such statement, but give some detail about what you are trying to teach. Take some time to get to know what we believe and where we stand BEFORE you go making accusations.

Am I bigoted? Not at all.

Am I intolerant? Absolutely - intolerant of those who push false doctrine. And I make no apology for it.

And as a Bible believing Christian I absolutely DO HAVE THE RIGHT to point out false teaching where I see it.

It is a bit tough for you if you don't like it - false doctrine will be exposed where it is found.

If you teach it straight then there will be no criticism - but so far you have not.

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26 minutes ago, DaveW said:

If you teach it straight then there will be no criticism - but so far you have not.

 

It ain't what you know that gets you into trouble.

It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

(Mark Twain)

 

DaveW; is it impossible that what you sincerely think is truth isn't? Do you honestly believe yourself infallible and speaking for God ex cathedra?

 

I urge you to exercise restraint in your choice of words lest the hapless day arrive when you are forced to eat them.

 

/

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I am absolutely not infallible.

But I know what the Bible says, and I can read what you have said, and I KNOW FOR CERTAIN that they are not the same thing.

When you specifically deny what the Bible clearly states - that is false teaching.

When you redefine words against their meaning to suit what you want to believe and teach - that is false teaching.

My standard is God's Word - and so far you have shown a propensity to teach that which the Word of God does not.

IF YOU TEACH ACCORDING TO GOD's WORD, then all well.

If you do not, then expect to be criticised.

It is really quite as simple as that - and you cannot intimidate me into being quiet.

You cannot threaten me into letting you teach false doctrine unanswered.

You cannot belittle me into hiding from you.

I have been attacked and insulted by far better men than you, and managed to survive.

 

It is all  in your court - teach what the Bible actually says, or expect to be pulled up on it.

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It is interesting to me that you refuse to answer any questions asked of you, but are quick to get defensive and offensive when someone disagrees with you.

You did it in the other thread and here also.

You have not answered any of my questions nor the question posed by no nicolaitans in this thread and others in the other thread, but instead choose to warn and threaten me not to question your teaching.

Why is that exactly?

Why do mot use the name "Jehovah", or just ust "Lord" instead of your contraction?

People don't do that without a reason, but when asked in the other thread you totally ignored it.

How about you answer that now?

When asked for information about your church and associations you totally ignired it.

How about you answer that now?

Instead of answering such reasonable and relevant questions, you chose to attack me, threaten me, and tried to intimidate me.

Again, the ball is in your court.

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8 hours ago, Zuno_Yazh said:

urge you to stop making a nuisance of yourself DaveW.

Dave is not being a nuisance. Nor is it applicable to apply the other negative, and incorrect, statements that were obviously applied to him and/or others on this forum who challenged your doctrinal stand on evolution and religious background. Dave's questions are viable, correct, and understandable in light of your previous teachings.

Maybe, just maybe, if you informed us more of your church, or fellowship, or doctrinal background, and answered Dave's questions in a more friendly manner, we would be more acceptable to your thoughts on other subjects.

Or, if you just found some other Bible subjects that are already being discussed here on OnLineBaptist and discussed those other subjects we could get to know you better and find ares of doctrine, and background, that are similar and familiar to us.  Sometimes a slow approach to a new forum is advisable.

 

 

Edited by Alan
finished a sentence

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1 hour ago, Alan said:

your church, or fellowship, or doctrinal background,

 

There's some information about me in the "Introduce Yourself" area. Look for New Old Man On The Block. My testimony is there too. You'll have to scroll down a little to find it.

 

There's additional information contained in the introduction to the Daily Genesis thread.

 

BTW: Just a friendly reminder gang. This thread isn't about me, nor is it about you. It's about Christ's commandments. Let's stay on-topic; always keeping in mind the world is watching, so we really ought to give them something useful to think about instead of talking about ourselves.

 

/

Edited by Zuno_Yazh

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In other words, you still refuse to answer these questions.....

Just tread carefully with your teaching...... keep it genuinely biblical and there will be no problem.

But honestly, do you not check out the qualifications of those you allow to teach YOU?

These are reasonable questions.

 

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9 hours ago, Zuno_Yazh said:

Back in the heyday of CB radio, we used to call those kinds of breakers channel bosses; which was a polite way of calling somebody a nuisance. (There was a cuss word modifying "nuisance" but seeing as how forum etiquette requires keeping a civil tongue in one's head, I can't repeat it.)

 

I urge you to stop making a nuisance of yourself DaveW.

 

 

/

Sir, I'm not sure why you went to the effort of including the correlation of the word nuisance with foul language and then referring to DaveW as a nuisance, but I am sure how it appears. 

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Rom 6:11 . . Reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

"dead to sin" in this case doesn't mean Christ's sheep don't sin (cf. 1John 1:8-10). It means that sin can no longer give God cause to slam them with the sum of all fears.

 

John 5:24 . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

Note the grammatical tense of the "hath" verb in the above verse. It's present tense rathe than future; indicating that people who hear Christ's word, and believe on God, have everlasting life right now-- no delay and no waiting period.

 

Rom 6:12-13 . . Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

 

Whether Christ's believing followers sin or don't sin will make no difference in their eternal destiny. However, they really should make an effort to walk as people in heaven rather than people in hell.

 

/

Edited by Zuno_Yazh

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So do you NOT check to see if a teacher is qualified to teach you?

Do you just accept absolutely anyone to teach you without question?

C'mon.... not difficult questions to answer?

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4 hours ago, DaveW said:

So do you NOT check to see if a teacher is qualified to teach you?

Do you just accept absolutely anyone to teach you without question?

 

Patience me boy; patience. If this thread survives; it will eventually get to information in the New Testament's epistles related to Christ's believing followers hooking up with Spirit-enabled teachers.

 

BTW: If you prefer teachers with seminary degrees, and/or recommendations, and/or accolades, and/or books published, and/or many years and hours of preaching, lecturing, and Sunday school experience: I can tell you right now that your search criteria is faulty; but we'll get to that all in good time.

 

/

Edited by Zuno_Yazh

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I don't care about seminary degrees, but I do care about truth and trustworthy teachers.

Why should we trust your teaching?

You refuse to answer questions.

You refuse give basic information about yourself.

We don't know anything if real substance about you, apart from tge dact tgat you don't believe the Bible means what it says - at least in regard to Genesis.

Patience?

"Hey dude, why do you have that drill stuck in the bottom of our boat"

"Oh don't worry about that. I am a good guy. Trust me and all will be revealed soon".......

"Why am I swimming now??????"

"And where is that bloke with the drill?"

Edited by DaveW

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See...this is why a new member shouldn't throw accusations or assume that a long-standing member has preferences. Those of us who know DaveW...and I hate to use this word...laugh...at what was suggested about him.

You really should get to know us first...and let us get to know you. You came to us...we didn't come to you.

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9 hours ago, Zuno_Yazh said:

 

Sir, as a 51 year old man, I offer my respect to you as my elder and an hoary head. Will you please answer the following sir...

1. What church are you currently a member of? 

2. Will you please link that church's website and/or Doctrinal Statement (aka...What We Believe)?

3. If your church has no website, can you supply us with your church's Doctrinal Statement? 

4. If you aren't currently attending a church, will you please provide us with your personal Doctrinal Statement? 

 

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Rom 12:1 . . Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

 

Sacrifices are basically things dedicated to God; i.e. set aside for God's purposes and/or utilized in such a way as to make God feel special instead of disgusted and/or disappointed.

 

Rom 12:2 . . Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

Personal Bible reading is a good place to begin; however, the will of God isn't meant to be self-taught; it's meant to be instructed by teachers empowered by God for that purpose.

 

1Cor 12:29 . . Are all teachers?

 

No, not all are teachers; which of course precludes self-teaching. Only some are teachers and the rest of Christ's believing followers are supposed to be students, i.e. disciples.

 

Eph 4:11-13 . . And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith

 

Sermons and Sunday school classes are Christianity's traditional sources of teaching. But there's radio programs too, e.g. Thru The Bible with Dr. J.Vernon McGee. These days with radio, television, and the internet; Spirit-inspired teaching is wide-spread and readily available.

 

In centuries gone past, it was necessary to go where the teachers were in order to hear them speak. Nowadays, they can come to speak where you are by means of electricity and electronic gadgets.

 

/

Edited by Zuno_Yazh

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Give us some reason to trust what you are teaching?

Answer some of our questions. 

We know that some of your teaching is false, for you redefined Bible words in  order to teach what the Bible doesn't about creation.

Tell us why we should trust you....

Who are you that we should trust you?

What groups do you align with that we should trust you?

Edited by DaveW
Phone spelling

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14 minutes ago, Zuno_Yazh said:

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Rom 12:1 . . Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

 

Sacrifices are basically things dedicated to God; i.e. set aside for God's purposes and/or utilized in such a way as to make God feel special instead of disgusted and/or disappointed.

 

Rom 12:2 . . Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

Personal Bible reading is a good place to begin; however, the will of God isn't meant to be self-taught; it's meant to be instructed by teachers empowered by God for that purpose.

 

1Cor 12:29 . . Are all teachers?

 

No, not all are teachers; which of course precludes self-teaching. Only some are teachers and the rest of Christ's believing followers are supposed to be students, i.e. disciples.

 

Eph 4:11-13 . . And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith

 

Sermons and Sunday school classes are Christianity's traditional sources of teaching. But there's radio programs too, e.g. Thru The Bible with Dr. J.Vernon McGee. These days with radio, television, and the internet; Spirit-inspired teaching is wide-spread and readily available.

 

In centuries gone past, it was necessary to go where the teachers were in order to hear them speak. Nowadays, they come to speak where you are by means of the various applications of electricity.

 

/

You advise that people search out "electronic" forms of teaching, but give no word of warning about testing those teachers?

Do you not think it is important to be discerning about who teaches you?

The Bible suggest otherwise:

1 John 4

 1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

People, test those teachers out there. Yes, there are many sources of spiritual teaching, but not all of them are good, and God's Word actually heavily encourages people to get their teaching both from personal study AND also from a good, Bible preaching local church.

Edited by DaveW
Phone spelling

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By the way, I am going to PEPPER you presumptuous teaching threads with warning that you are untrustworthy until you prove otherwise. 

People need to know that your "teaching" needs to be tested against the Bible - and that your teaching has been proven false by just that sort of testing.

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