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Calvinism or Arminianism? How do you answer?


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This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

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The problem with aligning to those terms is how they are defined by those groups. They don't mean what you mean when you say "Totally Depraved", or "perserverance" as a couple of examples.

I find it alarming that too many people think that there are only two choices here. Neither Calvinism or Arminianism lines up with Scripture.

God Would Have ALL Men to be Saved!!   2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;   1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowl

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I tell them I am neither..  After a couple of Bible verses, those are out. Then they try to pin me as a "universalist", "synergist", "pelagian" or "semi-pelagian" but as we get further into the Bible, it shows that I am none of those either. Got any more names?

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2 hours ago, BroMatt said:

I find it alarming that too many people think that there are only two choices here. Neither Calvinism or Arminianism lines up with Scripture.

Unfortunately, it is the almost universal question surrounding this issue - that people believe that you must be either one or the other.

And the minute you argue with a Calvinist, they immediately assume you think you can lose your salvation.

I am always happy to discuss it further, and as has already been said, it becomes plain that I am neither, and there is a third option.........

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On 2/3/2018 at 1:29 AM, HappyChristian said:

Heh. Here in this area it's not arminian or calvinist...they just want to make sure we aren't Mormons or JW's.

Yes, here too.  You get good at identifying '...BAPTIST church' really early in the conversation, before they can shut the door on you. :laugh:

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On 05/02/2018 at 5:10 AM, Salyan said:

Yes, here too.  You get good at identifying '...BAPTIST church' really early in the conversation, before they can shut the door on you. :laugh:

Where I am it makes no difference - as soon as they find out you are "religious", they close the door - often mid sentence.....

 

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I say the Bible makes me a Baptist!  Don't remember what those positions are and don't care to relearn them at present.  It's foolishness to an unsaved person anyway, stick to the gospel and salvation before they're eyes are opened and can begin to understand such things.

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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 7:28 PM, PastorMatt said:

This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

We had a discussion about Calvinism and Arminianism last week in SS which grew out of a comment on predestination. Both my SS teacher and I agree their are tenants from both Calvinism and Arminianism we can agree with. I was born with a spirit of self will (corrupt) and because God's grace allowed for the light of faith, I stand justified in Christ Jesus my Lord. Totally depraved YES - able to choose faith YES. The question's answer... I'm a saved Christian.

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I assume that in this thread discussion we are speaking only about the doctrine of salvation (soteriology).  As such . . .

Of the five points commonly argued, I would hold to ZERO points with Calvinism, THREE points with Arminianism, and TWO points with neither one.

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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, PastorMatt said:

I find it alarming that too many people think that there are only two choices here. Neither Calvinism or Arminianism lines up with Scripture.

I identify myself as being a Christian, who members in a local Baptist Church, who hold to Calvinistic theology in regards to salvation itself, but do not see us as being the "only real Christians".

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I’m not sure that anyone here has said anything about being the ‘only real Christians.’ That’s a straw man argument. The point of this thread is to discuss the doctrinal point is Calvinism and Arminianism, and whether either of them are doctrinally accurate. 

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5 hours ago, Salyan said:

I’m not sure that anyone here has said anything about being the ‘only real Christians.’ That’s a straw man argument. The point of this thread is to discuss the doctrinal point is Calvinism and Arminianism, and whether either of them are doctrinally accurate. 

As Spurgeon himself stated, Calvinism is the Gospel, in that it expounds and explains the plan of salvation best on how God does it in the good news message of Christ.

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On 2/3/2018 at 1:28 PM, PastorMatt said:

This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

I say I'm neither. 

My impression of calvinisim is they do not call out for salvation.. they are chosen before they believe. I believe a sinner does call out for salvation. Akin to Romans 10.

 

My impression of Arminianism is they believe salvation can be lossed. I don't believe it can. According to the likes of John 3:16, 5:24, 3:36 among many other verses. 

So neither 

 

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Calvinism is primarily a philosophy, not a doctrine: they take certain biblical truths, (ie, Man by nature is dead in sin,) then leap to philosophy to explain what that means, (if dead, he has no ability of himself to call upon God, because the dead can't do anything), while ignoring the fact that the Bible explains that Jesus lights every man that comes into the world, (gives all men light to have faith), and thus, faith begins with God, for ALL men, and therefore, yes, we can respond, though dead in sins, because God has given us the ability to do so. 

God IS sovereign, but it in no way lessens His sovereignty that He allows man to choose to follow or not. Calvinistic sovereignty equates to mechanical direction, some will follow, some will not, because they have no other choice BUT to follow or not. So God commands people to follow, but disallows MOST the ability to do so, then punishes those same for NOT doing what He doesn't let them do. There is nothing in scripture to begin to imply anything like that. 

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On 2/2/2018 at 7:28 PM, PastorMatt said:

This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

Either viewpoint is within orthodoxy, but think that 5 point calvinist viewpoint in regards to Sotierology proper fits the biblical account the best!

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It's not what we think but what the Bible says. The Bible says that "God so loved the world" not some of the world. The Bible says that "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked". The Bible says that "God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance". The Bible documents that people can hear the Gospel, be convicted, and then reject it of their own free will. And God has documented that He loves people who He knows will reject Him. I can give you more but I'm kind of busy right now.

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4 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Either viewpoint is within orthodoxy, but think that 5 point calvinist viewpoint in regards to Sotierology proper fits the biblical account the best!

Calvinism and Arminianism are both heresy because they backload works into the gospel! Anyone preaching Calvinism or Arminianism is accursed and must be marked and avoided as per Romans 16:17-18! Calvinism and Arminianism can not save and will not save!!!

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1 hour ago, gracelife said:

Calvinism and Arminianism are both heresy because they backload works into the gospel! Anyone preaching Calvinism or Arminianism is accursed and must be marked and avoided as per Romans 16:17-18! Calvinism and Arminianism can not save and will not save!!!

I think Arminianism more often can be a false Gospel, Calvinism not so much. Most of the Calvinists I know believe that salvation is through faith in the Gospel. BTW I do not accept Calvinism. 

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On 2/3/2018 at 11:28 AM, PastorMatt said:

This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

lol It sounds like you still have Christians there in America; "Christians" anyway. We NEVER get those sort of questions whilst knocking doors here. It's so funny. Australians don't have near the amount of Christian influence. I also worked out that America has about 20-30 times the amount of IB churches in Australia. Tasmania has about 2 or 3 churches. Northern Territory has about 1. Victoria might have 10. South Australia has about 5. Most of them are in New south wales and Queensland. The other three states I cant remember but probably not more than 10. Anyway, all up we have about 250 maybe. And most of them are churches of about 30-70 people. 70 is big. 40 is very very common. And most are seperated by hundreds and thousands of km from each other. Actually, it's lonely.

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13 minutes ago, LYDIA WESTERN said:

lol It sounds like you still have Christians there in America; "Christians" anyway. We NEVER get those sort of questions whilst knocking doors here. It's so funny. Australians don't have near the amount of Christian influence. I also worked out that America has about 20-30 times the amount of IB churches in Australia. Tasmania has about 2 or 3 churches. Northern Territory has about 1. Victoria might have 10. South Australia has about 5. Most of them are in New south wales and Queensland. The other three states I cant remember but probably not more than 10. Anyway, all up we have about 250 maybe. And most of them are churches of about 30-70 people. 70 is big. 40 is very very common. And most are seperated by hundreds and thousands of km from each other. Actually, it's lonely.

actually its more like 150 all up, 200 max. I cant figure out how to edit a post ive already posted?

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16 hours ago, gracelife said:

Calvinism and Arminianism are both heresy because they backload works into the gospel! Anyone preaching Calvinism or Arminianism is accursed and must be marked and avoided as per Romans 16:17-18! Calvinism and Arminianism can not save and will not save!!!

Both of them affirm the gospel , so neither would be heresy, but do think Calvinism understands the process from the scriptures best on just how God saved lost sinners!

15 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

I think Arminianism more often can be a false Gospel, Calvinism not so much. Most of the Calvinists I know believe that salvation is through faith in the Gospel. BTW I do not accept Calvinism. 

I kn ow of no calvinist/reformed that would deny the theology of pauline Justification!

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