Calvinism or Arminianism? How do you answer?

[PastorMatt 1,094]

This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

[Alan 3,471]

I would repeat my previous answer. I am a Biblicist. Neither John Calvin, nor Jacob Arminius, were correct in there writings.  And, neither one is a standard for doctrine.

If the person is seeking a good answer, and he is a just man, than your answer will help him in his quest for the truth. Proverbs 9:9 "Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning."

If he is a fool, and just looking for an argument, then don't waste your time.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Alan
grammer

[PastorMatt 1,094]

I find it alarming that too many people think that there are only two choices here. Neither Calvinism or Arminianism lines up with Scripture.

[heartstrings 2,370]

I tell them I am neither..  After a couple of Bible verses, those are out. Then they try to pin me as a "universalist", "synergist", "pelagian" or "semi-pelagian" but as we get further into the Bible, it shows that I am none of those either. Got any more names?

[DaveW 4,095]

2 hours ago, BroMatt said:

I find it alarming that too many people think that there are only two choices here. Neither Calvinism or Arminianism lines up with Scripture.

Unfortunately, it is the almost universal question surrounding this issue - that people believe that you must be either one or the other.

And the minute you argue with a Calvinist, they immediately assume you think you can lose your salvation.

I am always happy to discuss it further, and as has already been said, it becomes plain that I am neither, and there is a third option.........

[HappyChristian 3,649]

Heh. Here in this area it's not arminian or calvinist...they just want to make sure we aren't Mormons or JW's.

[Salyan 1,906]

On 2/3/2018 at 1:29 AM, HappyChristian said:

Heh. Here in this area it's not arminian or calvinist...they just want to make sure we aren't Mormons or JW's.

Yes, here too.  You get good at identifying '...BAPTIST church' really early in the conversation, before they can shut the door on you. 

[DaveW 4,095]

On 05/02/2018 at 5:10 AM, Salyan said:

Yes, here too.  You get good at identifying '...BAPTIST church' really early in the conversation, before they can shut the door on you. 

Where I am it makes no difference - as soon as they find out you are "religious", they close the door - often mid sentence.....

 

[swathdiver 1,758]

I say the Bible makes me a Baptist!  Don't remember what those positions are and don't care to relearn them at present.  It's foolishness to an unsaved person anyway, stick to the gospel and salvation before they're eyes are opened and can begin to understand such things.

[Baptist_Bible_Believer 86]

On 2/2/2018 at 6:42 PM, Alan said:

 I am a Biblicist.

Amen! I prefer the designation of Biblicist as well. It rather sums it all up pretty nicely.

[Scott Lyons 29]

I wholeheartedly agree with @PastorMatt!

"Neither Calvinism or Arminianism lines up with Scripture."

[1Timothy115 850]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 7:28 PM, PastorMatt said:

This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

We had a discussion about Calvinism and Arminianism last week in SS which grew out of a comment on predestination. Both my SS teacher and I agree their are tenants from both Calvinism and Arminianism we can agree with. I was born with a spirit of self will (corrupt) and because God's grace allowed for the light of faith, I stand justified in Christ Jesus my Lord. Totally depraved YES - able to choose faith YES. The question's answer... I'm a saved Christian.

[DaveW 4,095]

The problem with aligning to those terms is how they are defined by those groups.

They don't mean what you mean when you say "Totally Depraved", or "perserverance" as a couple of examples.

[Salyan 1,906]

Yes, this. /\

Calvinism’s definition of total depravity includes the inability to choose Christ.  You cannot embrace one part of the doctrine without tacitly accepting false doctrines. 

[heartstrings 2,370]

Zero points here.

[Pastor Scott Markle 2,782]

I assume that in this thread discussion we are speaking only about the doctrine of salvation (soteriology).  As such . . .

Of the five points commonly argued, I would hold to ZERO points with Calvinism, THREE points with Arminianism, and TWO points with neither one.

[DaChaser 17]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, PastorMatt said:

I find it alarming that too many people think that there are only two choices here. Neither Calvinism or Arminianism lines up with Scripture.

I identify myself as being a Christian, who members in a local Baptist Church, who hold to Calvinistic theology in regards to salvation itself, but do not see us as being the "only real Christians".

[Salyan 1,906]

I’m not sure that anyone here has said anything about being the ‘only real Christians.’ That’s a straw man argument. The point of this thread is to discuss the doctrinal point is Calvinism and Arminianism, and whether either of them are doctrinally accurate. 

[DaChaser 17]

5 hours ago, Salyan said:

I’m not sure that anyone here has said anything about being the ‘only real Christians.’ That’s a straw man argument. The point of this thread is to discuss the doctrinal point is Calvinism and Arminianism, and whether either of them are doctrinally accurate. 

As Spurgeon himself stated, Calvinism is the Gospel, in that it expounds and explains the plan of salvation best on how God does it in the good news message of Christ.

[360watt 23]

On 2/3/2018 at 1:28 PM, PastorMatt said:

This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

I say I'm neither. 

My impression of calvinisim is they do not call out for salvation.. they are chosen before they believe. I believe a sinner does call out for salvation. Akin to Romans 10.

 

My impression of Arminianism is they believe salvation can be lossed. I don't believe it can. According to the likes of John 3:16, 5:24, 3:36 among many other verses. 

So neither 

 

[heartstrings 2,370]

I'm neither. 

[Scott Lyons 29]

Both Calvinism and Arminianism are heresy! I believe the Bible! Both Calvinism and Arminianism are false gospels that must be avoided! They are both form the pit of hell!!!

[Ukulelemike 3,787]

Calvinism is primarily a philosophy, not a doctrine: they take certain biblical truths, (ie, Man by nature is dead in sin,) then leap to philosophy to explain what that means, (if dead, he has no ability of himself to call upon God, because the dead can't do anything), while ignoring the fact that the Bible explains that Jesus lights every man that comes into the world, (gives all men light to have faith), and thus, faith begins with God, for ALL men, and therefore, yes, we can respond, though dead in sins, because God has given us the ability to do so. 

God IS sovereign, but it in no way lessens His sovereignty that He allows man to choose to follow or not. Calvinistic sovereignty equates to mechanical direction, some will follow, some will not, because they have no other choice BUT to follow or not. So God commands people to follow, but disallows MOST the ability to do so, then punishes those same for NOT doing what He doesn't let them do. There is nothing in scripture to begin to imply anything like that. 

[mbkjpreacher 13]

Real Baptists are neither Calvinists nor Arminians but are Biblicists 

[PastorMatt 1,094]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:28 AM, mbkjpreacher said:

Real Baptists are neither Calvinists nor Arminians but are Biblicists 

[mbkjpreacher 13]

https://www.amazon.com/Missionary-Calvinist-Doctrine-Election-Compared-ebook/dp/B00SKKK92Q/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=edwin+jardinel&qid=1588223024&sr=8-10

 

[DaChaser 17]

On 2/2/2018 at 7:28 PM, PastorMatt said:

This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

Either viewpoint is within orthodoxy, but think that 5 point calvinist viewpoint in regards to Sotierology proper fits the biblical account the best!

[heartstrings 2,370]

It's not what we think but what the Bible says. The Bible says that "God so loved the world" not some of the world. The Bible says that "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked". The Bible says that "God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance". The Bible documents that people can hear the Gospel, be convicted, and then reject it of their own free will. And God has documented that He loves people who He knows will reject Him. I can give you more but I'm kind of busy right now.

[Scott Lyons 29]

4 hours ago, DaChaser said:

Either viewpoint is within orthodoxy, but think that 5 point calvinist viewpoint in regards to Sotierology proper fits the biblical account the best!

Calvinism and Arminianism are both heresy because they backload works into the gospel! Anyone preaching Calvinism or Arminianism is accursed and must be marked and avoided as per Romans 16:17-18! Calvinism and Arminianism can not save and will not save!!!

[Jordan Kurecki 662]

1 hour ago, gracelife said:

Calvinism and Arminianism are both heresy because they backload works into the gospel! Anyone preaching Calvinism or Arminianism is accursed and must be marked and avoided as per Romans 16:17-18! Calvinism and Arminianism can not save and will not save!!!

I think Arminianism more often can be a false Gospel, Calvinism not so much. Most of the Calvinists I know believe that salvation is through faith in the Gospel. BTW I do not accept Calvinism. 

[LYDIA WESTERN 10]

On 2/3/2018 at 11:28 AM, PastorMatt said:

This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

My question is how do you answer this question?

lol It sounds like you still have Christians there in America; "Christians" anyway. We NEVER get those sort of questions whilst knocking doors here. It's so funny. Australians don't have near the amount of Christian influence. I also worked out that America has about 20-30 times the amount of IB churches in Australia. Tasmania has about 2 or 3 churches. Northern Territory has about 1. Victoria might have 10. South Australia has about 5. Most of them are in New south wales and Queensland. The other three states I cant remember but probably not more than 10. Anyway, all up we have about 250 maybe. And most of them are churches of about 30-70 people. 70 is big. 40 is very very common. And most are seperated by hundreds and thousands of km from each other. Actually, it's lonely.

[LYDIA WESTERN 10]

13 minutes ago, LYDIA WESTERN said:

lol It sounds like you still have Christians there in America; "Christians" anyway. We NEVER get those sort of questions whilst knocking doors here. It's so funny. Australians don't have near the amount of Christian influence. I also worked out that America has about 20-30 times the amount of IB churches in Australia. Tasmania has about 2 or 3 churches. Northern Territory has about 1. Victoria might have 10. South Australia has about 5. Most of them are in New south wales and Queensland. The other three states I cant remember but probably not more than 10. Anyway, all up we have about 250 maybe. And most of them are churches of about 30-70 people. 70 is big. 40 is very very common. And most are seperated by hundreds and thousands of km from each other. Actually, it's lonely.

actually its more like 150 all up, 200 max. I cant figure out how to edit a post ive already posted?

[Jim_Alaska 2,351]

Lydia, there is an "edit" button at the very bottom of your post.

[LYDIA WESTERN 10]

2 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Lydia, there is an "edit" button at the very bottom of your post.

That would be lovely, I have to admit.

[DaChaser 17]

16 hours ago, gracelife said:

Calvinism and Arminianism are both heresy because they backload works into the gospel! Anyone preaching Calvinism or Arminianism is accursed and must be marked and avoided as per Romans 16:17-18! Calvinism and Arminianism can not save and will not save!!!

Both of them affirm the gospel , so neither would be heresy, but do think Calvinism understands the process from the scriptures best on just how God saved lost sinners!

15 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

I think Arminianism more often can be a false Gospel, Calvinism not so much. Most of the Calvinists I know believe that salvation is through faith in the Gospel. BTW I do not accept Calvinism. 

I kn ow of no calvinist/reformed that would deny the theology of pauline Justification!