Members DaChaser Posted June 23, 2020 Members Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, heartstrings said: Sure is. But Calvinism sure isn't. In your opinion! There were many so called particular Baptists who held and still hold to Calvinism. Edited June 23, 2020 by DaChaser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Lyons Posted June 23, 2020 Members Share Posted June 23, 2020 4 hours ago, DaChaser said: In your opinion! There were many so called particular Baptists who held and still hold to Calvinism. Doesn't make it right! The Calvinist's authority is NOT Scripture but IS Calvinism! Calvinists have outsourced their sense-making to "giants of the faith" like Luther, Edwards, Knox, Gill, and even Calvin himself instead of Scripture! Calvinists don't think for themselves and say "well John Knox says, or Calvin Says, or Jonathan Edwards says" instead of saying exactly what Scripture says! I don't care about what those men said. They were all heretics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted June 24, 2020 Members Share Posted June 24, 2020 15 hours ago, Scott Lyons said: Doesn't make it right! The Calvinist's authority is NOT Scripture but IS Calvinism! Calvinists have outsourced their sense-making to "giants of the faith" like Luther, Edwards, Knox, Gill, and even Calvin himself instead of Scripture! Calvinists don't think for themselves and say "well John Knox says, or Calvin Says, or Jonathan Edwards says" instead of saying exactly what Scripture says! I don't care about what those men said. They were all heretics! I think that you have a right to feel that way, but very much doubt that men such as a Bunyan, Calvin, Spurgeon, Packer, Stott et all were all heretics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Lyons Posted June 24, 2020 Members Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 hour ago, DaChaser said: I think that you have a right to feel that way, but very much doubt that men such as a Bunyan, Calvin, Spurgeon, Packer, Stott et all were all heretics! Again outsourcing your sense-making to men instead of Scripture! I don't care what those men said. What does the plain reading of Scripture say? And yes those men were heretics! If they preached and taught Calvinism, which they did, they are heretics because Calvinism is a false gospel of works. None of the five points of the TULIP are supported by Scripture! Pastor Matt and heartstrings 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted June 24, 2020 Members Share Posted June 24, 2020 Neither Calvin, Spurgeon, nor any of those other dudes were around when I got saved on May 11, 1986; just the Word of God and the Holy Ghost. Pastor Matt and Scott Lyons 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted June 24, 2020 Members Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Scott Lyons said: Again outsourcing your sense-making to men instead of Scripture! I don't care what those men said. What does the plain reading of Scripture say? And yes those men were heretics! If they preached and taught Calvinism, which they did, they are heretics because Calvinism is a false gospel of works. None of the five points of the TULIP are supported by Scripture! Calvinists like myself are NOT holding to a salvation by works, as its Grace alone thru faith alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scott Lyons Posted June 24, 2020 Members Share Posted June 24, 2020 47 minutes ago, DaChaser said: Calvinists like myself are NOT holding to a salvation by works, as its Grace alone thru faith alone! Oh yeah you are! Do you understand what the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints is? They will tell you it is eternal security but it is not. One must persevere in GOOD WORKS to prove that they are one of the elect. If a person backslides or falls away it proves they were never saved to begin with according to Calvinism. So you my friend if you do believe you are one of the "elect", you cannot know if you are saved until after you die! How many good works must a person do to prove they are one of the elect? This is where Calvinists become fruit inspectors and judge other people on whether they are truly saved and one of the elect or not. By the way, election and being elect has nothing to do with salvation. Election is to service! I suggest you study your theology a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaChaser Posted June 24, 2020 Members Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Scott Lyons said: Oh yeah you are! Do you understand what the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints is? They will tell you it is eternal security but it is not. One must persevere in GOOD WORKS to prove that they are one of the elect. If a person backslides or falls away it proves they were never saved to begin with according to Calvinism. So you my friend if you do believe you are one of the "elect", you cannot know if you are saved until after you die! How many good works must a person do to prove they are one of the elect? This is where Calvinists become fruit inspectors and judge other people on whether they are truly saved and one of the elect or not. By the way, election and being elect has nothing to do with salvation. Election is to service! I suggest you study your theology a bit more. I am a Calvinist Baptist, so tend to see this more as Eternal security of the saved, and that those who are really saved by grace will evidence to some degree fruit to reflect that, and when sinning, will in some fashion repent and return to the lord. Do agree with you that at times we seem to want to be fruit inspectors, and everyone grows at different rates, not one salvation mold fits all! Er just do not wish people to be trusting a one time alter call as proof right with God! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Popular Post Gismys Posted June 24, 2020 Members Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2020 God Would Have ALL Men to be Saved!! Â 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Â 1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. == A stake in the false teaching Calvinism's heart! Â OlBrotherDC, Pastor Matt, Scott Lyons and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted June 25, 2020 Moderators Share Posted June 25, 2020 19 hours ago, Gismys said: God Would Have ALL Men to be Saved!! Â 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Â 1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. == A stake in the false teaching Calvinism's heart! Â Here is some more: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. " (Matt 23:37) Here we see God's will, that He could gather Jerusalem together to Himself, yet their will, to reject Him, prevailed, and therefore, their house was left to them desolate. Man's will prevailed over God's will. Â "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2Pet 3:9) Â Â Scott Lyons, heartstrings and wretched 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted June 25, 2020 Administrators Share Posted June 25, 2020 I love the way that The Holy Spirit, anticipating things such as Calvinism, has carefully inserted the word "all" in so many Scriptures. One has to be willfully blind to not see that "all" means "all". Scott Lyons, heartstrings and wretched 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Martyr_4_FutureJoy Posted June 26, 2020 Members Share Posted June 26, 2020 On 6/19/2020 at 10:24 AM, DaChaser said: I think that we all will be adults in heaven, especially once received glorified bodies!  So (to show/ as if/ different to previous post by someone about "all" meaning "all" (In English) in Scripture) .... (it doesn't mean the same as some say)..... Just as in the quoted post - "we all will be adults in heaven"  refers ONLY to those who are redeemed, AND likewise who will be adults in the life to come,  clearly not all who read this forum, and not all in any particular church or city or state or country or continent on this earth. From the little I saw over the years from Hebrew and Aramaic especially,  and perhaps also Greek,  "all" in English is not conveying the same thing that many people take for granted, 'assuming' that since "all" was used in the English, they have the liberty to say it means 'everybody' ,  a clear mis-direction though not necessarily on purpose nor wittingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Martyr_4_FutureJoy Posted June 26, 2020 Members Share Posted June 26, 2020 On 6/19/2020 at 10:22 AM, SureWord said: No doubt babies go to heaven. Whether they are part of the church I am not sure. They may be part of some other redeemed body in heaven. Maybe part of the "general assembly" (Hebrews 12:23) "No doubt" ?  Then why has this same point been argued for centuries without clear resolution ? i.e. there has been no clear definitive specific or general provable argument or statement of Scripture of such a statement. For comparison,  why are so many babies/children declared unclean by Jesus. ? (all those who are without at least one believing parent.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SureWord Posted June 27, 2020 Members Share Posted June 27, 2020 3 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said: "No doubt" ?  Then why has this same point been argued for centuries without clear resolution ? i.e. there has been no clear definitive specific or general provable argument or statement of Scripture of such a statement. For comparison,  why are so many babies/children declared unclean by Jesus. ? (all those who are without at least one believing parent.) "No doubt" because sin is not imputed where there's no knowledge of the law. Babies have no knowledge of the law. I think the only ones debating about this for centuries are wacky 5-point Calvinists. Scott Lyons 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted June 27, 2020 Administrators Share Posted June 27, 2020 3 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:  So (to show/ as if/ different to previous post by someone about "all" meaning "all" (In English) in Scripture) .... (it doesn't mean the same as some say)..... Just as in the quoted post - "we all will be adults in heaven"  refers ONLY to those who are redeemed, AND likewise who will be adults in the life to come,  clearly not all who read this forum, and not all in any particular church or city or state or country or continent on this earth. context, context, context... I am no grammarian, but context rules. This is especially important when there is a "qualifier" pertaining to the word "all", or any other word for that matter. Using common sense as well as the English language we understand, would you say that the word "all" in the following verse only applies to a select few or a class, or does it mean "all", as is stated?  "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2Pet 3:9) As far as your straw man argument concerning someone that said "we all will be adults in heaven". Common sense must prevail. Do you really believe that Christians would think that this meant "all" as in the previous verse, or "all" who will go to heaven"? In addition meaning the unsaved also? In this case common sense dictates that the writer or speaker is referring to those that are saved. There can be no other understanding because Christians know that the unredeemed do not go to heaven. It is many times good to remember that the Bible was written so that people can understand it. And the translators did not make any mistakes, as your text implies in places when speaking of the Hebrew, Aramaic and greek. Scott Lyons, Pastor Scott Markle and John Young 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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