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How would you reconcile this?


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If I burn down my house, it is destroyed. Yet it still exists. It is not habitable, not in it's former condition, but it sill exists. If I build another house in front of the old one, there is a new house. The old house is forgotten, remembered no more. I live in the new one now.  Old house. Burned house. New house. But there's always a house. Anyhow, that's the simple way I would reconcile these two concepts.

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12 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Thanks Omega, this does make sense. I would however remind us that I did not say there was a contradiction. I asked in my original post how would you reconcile the seeming contradictions we find in the verses below.

I also said, "I do know and understand that Scripture does not contradict itself."

I hope no one sees this as being contentious, I just want to be very clear on what is being asked.

I don't think anyone is being contentious. This is a good discussion and I'm glad you brought it up as we can all learn from each other. I was confirming what you said as truthful when I said that because -- as you rightly said, the bible has no contradictions. So when someone posits an argument where on the one hand something is made as opposed to created, then it does present a seeming contradiction. It's ironic that the JW's believe that their "bible" has no contradictions at all and yet they run into several paradoxes that are irreconcilable because they are known for their eisegesis and faulty hermeneutics.

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Hi Bro Jim,
 
Thank you for sharing your POV's and the Jehovah's Witness beliefs. This is of great significance and providential considering that I keep getting these "door knockers", even at the dead of night when I'm trying to relax, and wind down. I apologize for somewhat going off on a tangent in this post. As I was reading through the link you provided about the Jehovah's Witness, and why they believe the SAME Earth can me made completely NEW. The article you sent me is typical of the kind of poor exegesis and sloppy thinking; and of which modern-day evangelicalism is replete.  It quotes Psalm 102:25-27, a verse which absolutely describes the replacement and incineration of the old with the new -- in the same way that the resurrection body will be absolutely new and yet "us" at the same time -- and then says this:
 
In recording these words, the psalmist was not contradicting God’s everlasting purpose for the earth. Rather, he was contrasting God’s eternal existence with the perishability of all the matter that God had created. Without God’s eternal renewing power, the universe -- including the solar system that we depend on for stability, energy, and light -- would descend into total disorder and ultimate destruction of the universe. Thus, if left to itself, our earth would "wear out," or come to a permanent end.
 
What does this even mean?  The only person who feels that the passage cited might seem to "contradict God's everlasting purpose for the earth" is the person who made up the idea of an "everlasting purpose for the earth" in his/her own imagination.  The Lord has a purpose for all BELIEVERS.  The earth is a home for US.  WE are the point.  Jesus died for US, not the earth.  We will be made entirely new, and so will the earth.
 
I see that this is a JW text.  Note what they say at the end:  "the Bible shows what you must do to share in that wonderful time".  By this they mean "abandon faith in Christ and become a JW" -- but that leads to condemnation on their part.  
 
I would strongly counsel anyone to avoid getting involved in any argument with these group of people on these grounds.  This is playing on their home field where the goals at both ends produce points for them; the best we can do is not allow a score -- which means wasting our time and doing no good.  Find out what they think about Jesus Christ (e.g., Jehovah's Witnesses).  Do they understand that He is God as well as a human being -- because otherwise He could not have survived bearing the sins of the world?  See what they think of these passages:
 
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
Jesus said to them, “... Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am..” (John 8:58)
 
God Bless!,
Danny
Edited by (Omega)
Truncated my post.
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Let's say one builds a house.  Part of that house is stone foundation.  The house burns down leaving the stone foundation.  You build or create new house on top of the foundation.  Still new and the same.  Just like peeling off that black crust on the marshmallow.

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(Ecclesiastes 1:4) One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

(Psalm 104:5) Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

To me, those verses are clear that the earth will always be here...forever. Therefore, the creation of a new earth (and heavens) must in some way involve remaking the old with what is already present.

When God created man, he used something that was already present.

When God created woman, he used something that was already present.

In other words...he doesn't always "create" things from nothing.

Are the new heavens and new earth created from nothing (as when God first created them), or are they created from something that is already present...effectively..."remaking" them? I believe God himself answers this.

(Revelation 21:1-5) 

1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 

 2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 3  And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 

 4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 5  And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The "remaking" of the heavens and earth are still "creative acts" done by God; however, he is creating something new out of something that is already present. 

 

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On 02/02/2018 at 2:44 PM, No Nicolaitans said:

(Ecclesiastes 1:4) One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

(Psalm 104:5) Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

To me, those verses are clear that the earth will always be here...forever. Therefore, the creation of a new earth (and heavens) must in some way involve remaking the old with what is already present.

When God created man, he used something that was already present.

When God created woman, he used something that was already present.

In other words...he doesn't always "create" things from nothing.

Are the new heavens and new earth created from nothing (as when God first created them), or are they created from something that is already present...effectively..."remaking" them? I believe God himself answers this.

(Revelation 21:1-5) 

1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 

 2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 3  And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 

 4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 5  And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The "remaking" of the heavens and earth are still "creative acts" done by God; however, he is creating something new out of something that is already present. 

 

Could this be the restitution of all things?

  • Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

Could this be the restitution of all things?

  • Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

I hadn't thought of that verse, and without further study, I would be a little wary in answering. However, it does seem to tie in closely, and restitution means to restore.

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Jim,
Take a look at the Hebrew Words for earth. I believe there are more than one, which may bring resolution to this apparent contradiction. I don't have my Hebrew books handy, otherwise I would look. If you have Keil & Delitch commentaries, they are very exhaustive on the Hebrew.

Thanks
PastorJ

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