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A close friend of my family had suggested that I go to church with him (the day before Christmas) to get some feedback on the Pastor's sermon, so I decided to go to "test the spirits" (which I believe is my spiritual gift). I sat in the front row and we were the first ones there. The Pastor kept walking back and forth in front of me speaking in what sounded like gibberish (in his mind, he's thinking that he is speaking an angelic language, or he knows he's simply a fraud -- or both). For some reason, I had an ominous feeling that something wasn't right when he kept walking back and forth "speaking in tongues". During the sermon (which was lame to say the least). He said during the sermon to his "sheeple", "How many of you like money?", and nearly all of his congregation cheered. This has happened to me before when another Pastor had asked the same question. After the service was over, I had a discussion with the Pastor and some of his colleagues also chimed in on the debate.

The Pastor brought up 1st Corinthians 13:1. But he failed to realize Paul was speaking hypothetically, clearly. Assume  from this statement that he speaks ANY angelic language.  We have no idea what language(s) angels have or how they  communicate except from what may be gleaned in scripture --   the Bible, when they appear, they always speak in Hebrew or Greek so as to be understood.  And THAT is the key point about the about the gifted of tongues :it is given with the purpose of being understood and NOT to be understood. But today, everything that passes for tongues is gibberish as far as the ears can hear. Even in Paul's discussion of the issue found in 1st Corinthians Chapter 1(12-14), it is clear from a casual reading that not being understood was the problem he was addressing, and that gives the command for NO speaking in tongues "Unless someone interprets (1Cor.14:5), that is, has the gift of interpretation otherwise knows the human language that person is speaking in. Because the gift of tongues ALWAYS results in speaking a real human language...for the purpose of evangelizing. And one final note. If in fact, if there were a angelic language, then why not create a concordance? I'll speak more on this when I get the chance.

God Bless!

 

 

 

 

       

 

      

       

 

       

 

       

 

       

 

       

 

     

       

 

        

 

 

Edited by (Omega)

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Absolutely true.

1 Cor 13 is so badly misused on this matter.

I will only add that Acts 2 says those one whom the cloven tongues appeared began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave utterance, and then lists a great number of languages that were heard, not just Greek and Hebrew......

But all KNOWN and recognised languages that were understood ny the hearers - as you rightly point out.

 

And how often is the wealth and health gospel associated with false tongue speaking??????

Problem is that when people think "Christian" they often think either of Catholic or Charismaniac, and we all get tarred with the same brush.

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22 hours ago, DaveW said:

Absolutely true.

1 Cor 13 is so badly misused on this matter.

I will only add that Acts 2 says those one whom the cloven tongues appeared began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave utterance, and then lists a great number of languages that were heard, not just Greek and Hebrew......

But all KNOWN and recognised languages that were understood ny the hearers - as you rightly point out.

 

And how often is the wealth and health gospel associated with false tongue speaking??????

Problem is that when people think "Christian" they often think either of Catholic or Charismaniac, and we all get tarred with the same brush.

I agree Dave.  I did mention to somebody that there were many nations present that all heard in their own language, He replied that the miracle was in hearing not in speaking.  

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There is something referred to as the "Kundalini Spirit", and gives professing Christians the false impression that they are in fact speaking in tongues through the power of the Holy Spirit, when in fact it is a negative spirit that can be found in nearly all false religions and beliefs. I was trying to post more on this yesterday but for some reason my reply would not show up when I hit the "submit" button. One of my pet peeves are false tongues, and those who can speak in tongues believing that they're so much "holier" , or "closer" to God than us.

And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, and Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea adocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians we hear.(Acts 2:7) So this passage, 1st Corinthians 13:1, only does not say on the face of it that any human being has ever had the ability to speak in an angelic language but also does not even prove that there are discrete angelic languages.  There may well be, and that is a fair deduction (only) from the passage, but there is nothing here to suggest that people have ever had this gift, even in the 1st century when the actual gift of tongues was actually being given. It isn't today, as far as I can tell, for never has anyone who has claimed to have this gift ever been able to pronounce any verifiable evidence of someone speaking, e.g., Swahili, without ever having studied it. In an age where everything is captured on cell phones, it's really incredible that such a phenomenon would be happening "all the time" yet never ever validated one time. 1st Corinthians 14:2:  Getting the translation correct it to demonstrate the context helps here: The reason I say this (i.e., in v.1, that we should rather desire gifts that give content such as prophecy) is that a person who speaks [by the Spirit] in a language [not otherwise known to him or his listeners] is speaking not to people (i.e., since his audience doesn't in that case understand the language he's speaking) but to God (who understands everything). For [in such a case] no one is listening to him (i.e., no one is going to even pay attention to a person speaking in another language they don't speak, let alone gain any edification from the experience), but he is speaking by the Spirit (i.e., he himself doesn't even understand the sounds he's making) mysteries (i.e., things that can't be understood without an interpreter)

Thus 1st Corinthians 14:2 is describing the situation Paul is remonstrating against throughout the rest of the chapter, namely, the inappropriate use of the gift of tongues at a gathering of believers. In that context, "no one is listening" that is what the Greek says  -- which is dead wrong and unparalleled in Greek). The big problem with the false rendering is not that the meaning is so different but that "understands" implies a more general application (i.e., anyone, anywhere, at any time), whereas if I say "and no one is listening to him" (the actual Greek), the phrase can be rightly taken for what it actually is, namely, the situation in these assemblies where individuals were speaking in tongues without an interpreter (i.e., "at that time" or "in this situation"). As this interpretation jibes with everything else Paul has to say about tongues in this context and everywhere else while the generalized "no one understands" does not, the former is much to be preferred to the latter. 1st Corinthians 14:2: In Sinaiticus, the correct reading is singular, "tongue".  Even in the plural, we would need to understand this statement generically (i.e., "speaking in tongues is not even taken by tongues-speakers to mean "multiple tongues"), so there would be no evidence even in that case for Paul speaking in more than one language he didn't study, but as it is, it is singular so there is no warrant here to say anything more than that he had the actual gift -- but what is his bottom line? But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. (1st Corinthians 14:9) and that is the exact opposite of what I witnessed. It's possible to twist any passage of scripture to have it say what a person wants. All anyone needs to do to find the Truth is read in any English version.(even with the errors of translation) the entirety of these three chapters, and it will obvious that Paul is encouraging edification through understanding the Truth and not condoning babbling in sounds that no one can understand -- in fact, just the opposite. The gift of tongues is not being given today. What passes for it is a fraud. I would stay away where from places where play these games. If they can pretend are being used by the Spirit when it is all a sham, What else might they pretend in their flippant lack of respect for the Truth.

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On December 27, 2017 at 5:36 PM, DaveW said:

Absolutely true.

1 Cor 13 is so badly misused on this matter.

I will only add that Acts 2 says those one whom the cloven tongues appeared began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave utterance, and then lists a great number of languages that were heard, not just Greek and Hebrew......

But all KNOWN and recognised languages that were understood ny the hearers - as you rightly point out.

 

And how often is the wealth and health gospel associated with false tongue speaking??????

Problem is that when people think "Christian" they often think either of Catholic or Charismaniac, and we all get tarred with the same brush.

The HWP (health, wealth, and prosperity) "gospel" almost always involves false tongue speaking in the Charismatic and Pentecostal sects. Joel olsteen has a book titled "Your best life now". Ok, that makes sense because Joel Olsteen and his congregation or readers of his book want their "Best Life" NOW. Not later, but NOW, because they sure aren't going to get their best life once they're in the Lake of Fire. One of my closest friends is a missionary, and he told me that the ONLY instance where he heard true tongue speaking was in China. His friend (also a missionary) began to speak in tongues, and the Chinese people who have never heard the Gospel understood him, and he didn't know bupkis when it came to the Chinese language. 

A former co-worker of mine referred to herself as "Christian" in a conference meeting, when in fact she belonged to the Jehovah's Witnesses cult. Most of the unbelieving world believe that Catholics are sacred and holy men of God, but ironically, The RCC is notoriously known for their pedophelia and child molesters, which are found within the RCC. And when somone calls their priest to exorcise their demon possessed daughter or son, it's ALWAYS that they're possessed by "the Devil", when there are literally millions of demons and unclean spirits seeking bodies to possess. Satan's main opponent is The Lord God Almighty Himself, and yet the Devil decides to waste his precious time possessing a child or adult when (in a world populated in the billions) his MO is to find a way to overthrow the Lord? Ain't happening! I saw this show a while back on TV about real exorcisms, and it involved a Catholic priest and his attempt to drive out the demon/s that were possessing this young boy, and the first thing the family did was call their priest. It took the priest 2 or 3 months to supposedly "drive" the demon/s out. Several months later, the boy reverted to being demon possessed, and the condition exacerbated. True Christians are never involved in cases like this, it's always a Catholic "priest" and never a true Christian. It's because of their false veneer, from their donned decked out attire fashioned with gems and Jewels. The RCC and the religious leaders during Jesus' time on Earth and are almost identical. They mirror the religious leaders of Jesus' time on Earth and could walk hand in hand with them. Nothing spells confusion more than the "holy" rollers within the Pentecostal denomination. God is not the author of confusion (1Cor.14:33), and barking like dogs and howling like wolves as they roll around on the floor makes my blood boil, because It is a mockery of true Christianity, and a stench in God's nostrils. It is blasphemous and unholy, and their lot is in the Lake of Fire, unless they repent.

God Bless!

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19 hours ago, (Omega) said:

And when somone calls their priest to exorcise their demon possessed daughter or son, it's ALWAYS that they're possessed by "the Devil", when there are literally millions of demons and unclean spirits seeking bodies to possess. Satan's main opponent is The Lord God Almighty Himself, and yet the Devil decides to waste his precious time possessing a child or adult when (in a world populated in the billions) his MO is to find a way to overthrow the Lord? Ain't happening! I saw this show a while back on TV about real exorcisms, and it involved a Catholic priest and his attempt to drive out the demon/s that were possessing this young boy, and the first thing the family did was call their priest. It took the priest 2 or 3 months to supposedly "drive" the demon/s out. Several months later, the boy reverted to being demon possessed, and the condition exacerbated.

 Mark 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? 
 24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 
 25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 
 26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 

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On 1/2/2018 at 10:38 AM, (Omega) said:

That is an excellent passage that proves why one of the reasons as to why Catholic priests aren't able to cast demons out.

Well, aren't these the ones mentioned in Matthew 7:22?

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The ability to speaking in tongues falls into three categories: Faked, learned, or demonic. Doctor's have studied this phenomena upon close examination and they are confounded as to what exactly is going on in the brain. The area in the brain linked to speech (the frontal lobe -- Broca's area) is "emptied out" when the subject begins speaking in tongues. They claim that it is the Holy Spirit activating that portion of the brain -- which is why that area of the brain is "grayed out". 

When a person THINKS of the next word to say while speaking, that Broca's area of the brain begins to light up; and this is the complete opposite of what happens when one speaks in tongues. This is indicative that the person is not THINKING of the next word to say -- but rather allows for random and unknown words to come into play. Furthermore, God the Holy Spirit did NOT create our brains to be EMPTIED out in any way. The Holy Spirit is indeed INVISIBLE . . . but it would make NO SENSE for an Invisible entity to cause something to DISAPPEAR -- because you can't see something that is unseen. If we are indwelt by the INVISIBLE Holy Spirit -- would we be INVISIBLE also when it is active within us? These people who speak in tongues need to USE THEIR BRAINS!!!

God Bless!

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