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Eternal Security vs O.S.A.S


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Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

It's not my salvation to lose. The deal (covenant) was made in eternity past between God The Father and God The Son. The ONLY part I have in Salvation is accepting it. Once I accept it there is no provision in God's Word to un-accept it, or discard it.

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I simply would like to ask ,What happened to Adam? Adam was created without sin, he was created pure, he had a personal relationship with God, he talked to God daily, he was without sin and created in the image of God.Adam had eternal life to begin with and was a child of God. God warned him that if he took the forbidden fruit that he would die so this means he had life both physical and eternal. So what happen to Adam? He lost his eternal life .

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Again, multiple replies answered here.   

1 John 5:13 is true as is all scripture.  While it is true it is rendered in the present tense, the salvation we have now is not the final deliverance; yet this is the only one that matters.  It is the event that counts.  If we are abiding in Christ today, then we currently are working out our salvation with fear and trembling. This is the present salvation.  Yet the eternal salvation is not here.  Our bodies are not eternal; nothing about this world is eternal.  We have not been delivered from sin.  This is why salvation is spoken of in multiple tenses.   So also is the resurrection of the dead. "The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit" and "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory."

Adam died spiritually; that is why we are all born dead spiritually.  Furthermore the Prodigal Son was spiritually alive, sinned and rejected his father and died spiritually, eventually coming back to his senses (and without the Father's pursuit as told) and coming back to life spiritually.  This is what scripture teaches; that is we can die spiritually.  This is shown in many passages including Romans 8:13, Galatians 5:21, Galatians 5:7-8, Luke 8:13, Rev 3:2, etc, etc, etc.  The examples i were to make the point that God does not play games.  When people live in rebellion to him, they have not received His promises.  Hebrews 4 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it"  

I answered directly the question of eternal life and final salvation.  We do NOT have it yet (not fully).  We will have it in the future assuming we are faithful.  Once it is eternal it is eternal.  That is the truth of the breadth of scripture.  Here are some of the scriptures; let me know if you want them pasted: Luke 21:28; Romans 13:11; Ephesians 4:30; I Peter 1:5; Hebrews 9:27,28.  There are those who will state that eternal life is not eternal life if it can be lost, yet the essence which makes all scripture true is that we have hold on eternal life but not the final event.  For example 1 Timothy 6:19, indicates we must take hold of that which is true life "Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life"  Lay hold is Greek epilambanomai meaning to "struggle to obtain [eternal life]"  "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.   Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus"  

With respect to the post about the usage of scripture above, in some cases, there are errors, in some cases there are interpretations apart from the Greek.  As stated, harpazo is to carry off by force.  We do not carry ourselves off by force.  The essence of the passage is no one else can carry us off (except God).  In other cases, the idea of believing is in the Greek continuous present tense meaning we must keep believing; we must endure.  God is there to help but does not override our will......

There are many many scriptures which address loss of salvation; that is spiritual death.  it is tradition and men listening to men that causes this doctrine to propagate, yet the damage caused by it is untold.  

As i have stated if we are faithful, committed to serving our Lord, trying to obey and do what is right, we have no fear.  Yet any doctrine which  by logical extension assures Christians that no decisions they make on this earth have any effect on a person's salvation are simply leading people into sin and eternal separation from God.  This is the logical extension of the doctrine and most know it.  It causes sin and lukewarmness.  

I leave you with this (factual) blog

Be Ye Holy, even as I have been Ye holy! Thus saith the lord thy God!”, as pastor XXXXXXXXX would proclaim. Holy **I have a potty mouth**, religion is a waste. But this guy teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven.  Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.

Shortly after this was written the person committed mass murder.......

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First point: this is a kjv forum. It is in the rules. Please only quote from the KJV.

Secondly, Jesus was very plainly speaking present tense using the terms everlasting (in these verses) and eternal in respect to salvation life.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 

No amount of maneuvering by you can change this fact.

Either it is eternal or it never was..........

It is very simple.

I believe on Him, I have HAVE eternal life. 

End of story.

If it can be lost, it is not, was not, and never will be eternal nor everlasting.

 

 

 

 

Edited by DaveW
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The first Adam was Spiritually Safe because he was innocent and righteousness on his own merit before God and then was lost because he fell from his own innocents. This means he could no longer stand before God in his own grace. When we as children lose our innocents we then can no longer stand righteous before God and must submit to another's righteousness.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The second Adam still stands in his own righteousness and we who are saved from our fall stand with him in his righteousness and not our own. 

Jude 24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

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In one post you say "Eternal life does NOT depend on works." And in a post directly before it you say: "As i have stated if we are faithful, committed to serving our Lord, trying to obey and do what is right, we have no fear. This is works for salvation if we have to DO anything.

So which is it, works or no works?

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