Good article by Pastor Baldwin

[speerjp1]

We are to be stewards of all God has provided' date=' we are responsible for the government that we have. The best way to influence the outcome, is to witness Christ and have them sit under good biblical preaching. As long as priorities are correct, nothing is wrong with political activity.[/quote']

The Bible nowhere teaches that we are responsible as stewards for our government. We are to obey (as long as they do not tell us to do or not do unBiblical things). God's word is clear that God himself ordains the government and turns it in the ways that he sees fit for his purposes.

I do not think there is anything wrong with political involvement, but we have to keep it in its place.

"Pastor" Baldwin has allowed many politicians use his pulpit as a stump. He uses his own pulpit to stump. That is not given anywhere in God's word as a use of God's house or a gathering of God's people.

[Colin Stolzer]

That would be true under most forms of Government, dictatorships, monarchies, theocracies, etc.. but under our form of Gov't which is supposed to be a Constitutional Republic, that doesn't hold true. The first three words of the Constitution are "We the People", and that is were the responsibility of Gov't is in this country, it's in the people. This is one of the great misconceptions of this generation is that the gov't is our master, when in fact those people that represent us are our servants. And even the bible is clear on how a servant should honor his master, and I don't see any of our current politicians honoring the people they represent.

C

[Guest Guest]

The first three words of the Constitution are "We the People"' date=' and that is were the responsibility of Gov't is in this country, it's in the people. This is one of the great misconceptions of this generation is that the gov't is our master, when in fact those people that represent us are our servants. And even the bible is clear on how a servant should honor his master, and I don't see any of our current politicians honoring the people they represent.[/quote']


CowboyPreacher. :thumb

The government acts like they own us rather than serve us. Various examples are rises gas prices, food prices, and the "foreclosesure" of homes all over the country. And, the president tells the people that this is the fault of the homeowner (overspending, not being able to budget properly, etc.) :lol :roll Where has he been? It amazes me that the property taxes keep going up---yet the value of one's home keeps going down. :puzzled: America's leaders have been acting like pharisees, lately---rather than the servants they were created to be for the American public. JMHO.

[speerjp1]

That would be true under most forms of Government [ :puzzled: ], dictatorships, monarchies, theocracies, etc.. but under our form of Gov't which is supposed to be a Constitutional Republic, that doesn't hold true. The first three words of the Constitution are "We the People", and that is were the responsibility of Gov't is in this country, it's in the people. This is one of the great misconceptions of this generation is that the gov't is our master, when in fact those people that represent us are our servants. And even the bible is clear on how a servant should honor his master, and I don't see any of our current politicians honoring the people they represent.

C

According to the Bible, it is always true. I do not find any exceptions to the rule in God's word. Just because a bunch of men were allowed by God to come together and form such a union, doesn't mean that the commands and teachings of God's word on the issue of human government were changed just for us American Christians.

Our government was allowed to be in existence as it was only by the will of God for a purpose.

Do I think it is right that it has become what it has today? No.

Do I vote and put up yard signs and attend rallies and try to convince people of the right way to vote? Yes (but it doesn't consume my every waking hour or make me doubt God's wisdom when a God-hater makes it to the White House).

Do I do this as though it is the only hope for the world? No way.

(Please do not make this a generational issue: it's not this generations fault we are where we are. :thumb)

[Colin Stolzer]

According to the Bible, it is always true. I do not find any exceptions to the rule in God's word. Just because a bunch of men were allowed by God to come together and form such a union, doesn't mean that the commands and teachings of God's word on the issue of human government were changed just for us American Christians.

Our government was allowed to be in existence as it was only by the will of God for a purpose.

Do I think it is right that it has become what it has today? No.

Do I vote and put up yard signs and attend rallies and try to convince people of the right way to vote? Yes (but it doesn't consume my every waking hour or make me doubt God's wisdom when a God-hater makes it to the White House).

Do I do this as though it is the only hope for the world? No way.

(Please do not make this a generational issue: it's not this generations fault we are where we are. :thumb)

You said

The Bible nowhere teaches that we are responsible as stewards for our government.

But that's not true under this form of gov't compared to other forms, this form of gov't is specific to the people having the power. I didn't say it was this generations fault, I said it was a misconception of this generation. For the most part this generation doesn't know what form of gov't they are supposed to have. It is however this generation responsibility to set it right, just like it was the last generations responsibility, and the one before that. And if you want biblical principal for that just read through Judges, every generation had the chance to do right and follow God.

C

[Colin Stolzer]

God's word is clear that God himself ordains the government and turns it in the ways that he sees fit for his purposes.

This statement isn't true either.
Hos 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.

[speerjp1]

[quote="CowboyPreacher"][quote]God's word is clear that God himself ordains the government and turns it in the ways that he sees fit for his purposes.[/quote]
This statement isn't true either.
Hos 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.[/quote]

My statement is true and is based on the principles taught throughout God's word. Your text is obviously an exceptional situation. This world is not our home. We're just pilgrims and strangers. I refuse to be entangled in it as much as possible.

[Colin Stolzer]

[quote="speerjp1"][quote="CowboyPreacher"][quote]God's word is clear that God himself ordains the government and turns it in the ways that he sees fit for his purposes.[/quote]
This statement isn't true either.
Hos 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.[/quote]

My statement is true and is based on the principles taught throughout God's word. Your text is obviously an exceptional situation. This world is not our home. We're just pilgrims and strangers. I refuse to be entangled in it as much as possible.[/quote]
It's not my text it's God's word and it can't be that exceptional since all you have to do is read a little world history to figure out how many ungodly Gov'ts have been established.

C

[speerjp1]

[quote="CowboyPreacher"][quote="speerjp1"][quote="CowboyPreacher"][quote]God's word is clear that God himself ordains the government and turns it in the ways that he sees fit for his purposes.[/quote]
This statement isn't true either.
Hos 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.[/quote]

My statement is true and is based on the principles taught throughout God's word. Your text is obviously an exceptional situation. This world is not our home. We're just pilgrims and strangers. I refuse to be entangled in it as much as possible.[/quote]
It's not my text it's God's word and it can't be that exceptional since all you have to do is read a little world history to figure out how many ungodly Gov'ts have been established.

C[/quote]

I don't have to go any further than the Bible, though, to see an example of Christians being told to submit to one of the worst most tyrannical and imperial governments that has ever existed.

We are Christians, not anarchists.

[Colin Stolzer]

I don't have to go any further than the Bible, though, to see an example of Christians being told to submit to one of the worst most tyrannical and imperial governments that has ever existed.

We are Christians, not anarchists.

And I go to the scriptures and see the very clear picture of those who defied Gov't. to be Christian.

C

[Guest Guest]

And I go to the scriptures and see the very clear picture of those who defied Gov't. to be Christian.

Yes---when the government was corrupt. They certainly did. :thumb

[speerjp1]

And I go to the scriptures and see the very clear picture of those who defied Gov't. to be Christian.

C

Defying the government does not make one a Christian.

I am a Christian. If the government has a problem with my witnessing, living right, going to church, helping in the community, or any other obligation I have as a Christian, then they will just have to lock me up or kill me like they've done in past governments.

However, I refuse to be put to death for being an anarchist or "social activist." I believe we have a higher calling than to merely push for social change in a world full of people who have rejected Christ and are one their way to hell. If I die for my beliefs, it will be my belief and hope in God and Jesus Christ and not my belief or hope in a anthropocentric "Christian government."

[John81]

Defying the government does not make one a Christian.

I am a Christian. If the government has a problem with my witnessing, living right, going to church, helping in the community, or any other obligation I have as a Christian, then they will just have to lock me up or kill me like they've done in past governments.

However, I refuse to be put to death for being an anarchist or "social activist." I believe we have a higher calling than to merely push for social change in a world full of people who have rejected Christ and are one their way to hell. If I die for my beliefs, it will be my belief and hope in God and Jesus Christ and not my belief or hope in a anthropocentric "Christian government."

I really get tired of hearing Christian pastors praising the "civil rights movement" as if it were an act of God. They praise ungodly leaders that movement and some practically elevate them to sainthood status. Never mind their communist and anti-Christian connections; never mind their unlawful approaches; never what Scripture actually says about such matters.

Too many professing Christians today have an idealized view of the 1960s and want to get into radical social activism and feel as if they are a part of something like what they think they see in the old news reels and idealized Hollywood movies about the 1960s.

There is a way that seems right to man but the end thereof is folly.

Obey Scripture! Preach Christ and Him crucified! Win the lost to Christ and disciple them!