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Bob from England

Lester Roloff

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I quote from Roloff often on the subject of repentance and faith with regards to salvation.  Have also read many several sermons and a number of articles by him that were a biblically sound.  Way of Life, the now defunct Baptist Challenge newsletter and I believe the Baptist Pillar all used his materials.

Don't know much else about the man though.

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10 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I quote from Roloff often on the subject of repentance and faith with regards to salvation.  Have also read many several sermons and a number of articles by him that were a biblically sound.  Way of Life, the now defunct Baptist Challenge newsletter and I believe the Baptist Pillar all used his materials.

Don't know much else about the man though.

Many thanks for your comments - with regards to Mr Roloff's teaching on repentance, I did some research and found him to be correct in his statement that repentance is a turning from sin. 

He correctly points out that repentance is not simply a change of mind but a change of mind that leads to a change of action viz. turning from sin.  The problem with "preachers" who teach that repentance is simply a change of mind and nothing more is that their "ministry" leads to people having a false sense of assurance, as true salvation is linked to a turning from sin.

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9 hours ago, The real Bob Hutton said:

Many thanks for your comments - with regards to Mr Roloff's teaching on repentance, I did some research and found him to be correct in his statement that repentance is a turning from sin. 

He correctly points out that repentance is not simply a change of mind but a change of mind that leads to a change of action viz. turning from sin.  The problem with "preachers" who teach that repentance is simply a change of mind and nothing more is that their "ministry" leads to people having a false sense of assurance, as true salvation is linked to a turning from sin.

Excellent assessment IMO. Roloff understood that conviction of the Spirit comes only from hearing the Scriptures and produces a broken and contrite spirit in the heart.

Psalms 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Easy believe-ism has produced IMO 95% of the so called "saved" people in this country today (including most IFB big numbers churches). People who claim Christ as Savior but do not humbly Fear God because they are given a partial "gospel" of Good News when they have never heard the bad news of sin, righteousness and judgment to come first. These demonstrate no fearful sorrow seeking God's mercy. Sure they are active members of local churches but at the same time, full of the pride of life and self-satisfaction.

Although He died for all to be saved & gives all the opportunity to be saved whether they admit it or not, He only loves those who humble themselves when they hear His Word and fear Him. This fear produces repentance which in turn produces regeneration of the Spirit which finally produces our love for Him because of His Great Mercy (never the other way around).  We love Him because He first loved us and gave Himself a Ransom for us.

The moral of this post is this: How can one benefit from the Good News when they are clueless to the bad news. Easy believe-ism truly is the most cleverly deceptive apostasy of all IMO and it is wildfire now in these final days. 

 

Edited by wretched

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16 hours ago, The real Bob Hutton said:

Many thanks for your comments - with regards to Mr Roloff's teaching on repentance, I did some research and found him to be correct in his statement that repentance is a turning from sin. 

He correctly points out that repentance is not simply a change of mind but a change of mind that leads to a change of action viz. turning from sin.  The problem with "preachers" who teach that repentance is simply a change of mind and nothing more is that their "ministry" leads to people having a false sense of assurance, as true salvation is linked to a turning from sin.

Are you suggesting that one cannot have assurance of salvation?

If, as you say, "true" salvation is linked to a turning from sin.....then it cannot be by faith alone.

It is either by GRACE through faith ALONE,or it is by works.

It cannot be BOTH a gift AND a wage.

Have you turned from every sin in your life?

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”      
.......Romans 11:6

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"Repentance" is in the heart, therefore it is faith and not a "work". When  you realize that you are a lowdown sorry hateful sinner, on your way to Hell and deserve it, you turn "against" or from that sin and self to Jesus. That's repentance. It's not a "step one, step two" thing. I've heard some put it this way "to take God's side against yourself".

However, "repentance" is still an active necessity in the Christian life; not for salvation but to grow and stay in fellowship with God.

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7 hours ago, heartstrings said:

"Repentance" is in the heart, therefore it is faith and not a "work". When  you realize that you are a lowdown sorry hateful sinner, on your way to Hell and deserve it, you turn "against" or from that sin and self to Jesus. That's repentance. It's not a "step one, step two" thing. I've heard some put it this way "to take God's side against yourself".

However, "repentance" is still an active necessity in the Christian life; not for salvation but to grow and stay in fellowship with God.

Many thanks, brother, for your helpful comment.

Regards

Bob

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Bro. Roloff once made the statement, "We need to QUIT teaching our children to memorize Bible verses, they need to memorize CHAPTERS!!"

I'll go one farther ---- parents, quit using the "Children memorize better than adults" excuse. You have a wealth of trivial and even useless data memorized, you just have to work harder at the same Bible memory as the kids. Even if you only learn half of those chapters you'll still be ahead of the 'verse of the month' exercise. (or, 'verse a season' or 'verse a year' or 'verse when it sticks to me' or 'where's a verse?')

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4 hours ago, The real Bob Hutton said:

Many thanks, brother, for your helpful comment.

Regards

Bob

Please answer my questions.

The first one is:

"Are you suggesting that one cannot have assurance of salvation?"

Thank you.

Edited by BabeinChrist
Added first question

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11 hours ago, heartstrings said:

"Repentance" is in the heart, therefore it is faith and not a "work". When  you realize that you are a lowdown sorry hateful sinner, on your way to Hell and deserve it, you turn "against" or from that sin and self to Jesus. That's repentance. It's not a "step one, step two" thing. I've heard some put it this way "to take God's side against yourself".

However, "repentance" is still an active necessity in the Christian life; not for salvation but to grow and stay in fellowship with God.

Repenting of your sins is a work. When you turn from your sins, you stop committing a sin.

It is turning away from a particular sin.

That doesn't save.

If a person stops drinking booze, they have repented of that sin.  Using Bob Hutton's definition, it is a change of mind (not wanting to drink), which leads to an "action" (quitting drinking).

You are bundling repenting of sin with conviction of sin, which is when one realizes they are a sinner deserving of Hell.

Conviction of sin is  what will LEAD a person to seek salvation, knowing they can do nothing to save their own soul, and then they are prime for hearing the Gospel and BELIEVING it.

Believing that the Son of God, Jesus Christ, died to pay the penalty of our sins, past present & future, was buried and 3 days later rose again bodily....THAT is what saves someone. BELIEF.

the Gospel is about what JESUS DID to save us, not which sins we have turned from.

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Not as I tried to describe it to you. Yes "Godly sorrow" leads to repentance. But to get "saved", there must be something to get "saved" "from" and that thing is sin and self. You can't just "stop sinning" on your own. Believing on Jesus for salvation is to trust Him to save you from your sin. It's not a "work". It's faith.

Getting rid of all the specific sins in your life happens over time after salvation; but begins immediately after because you have been made a new creature. Repentance is an ongoing thing thereafter because we still have the sin nature as well as the new nature.

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On 7/22/2017 at 10:38 AM, BabeinChrist said:

Please answer my questions.

The first one is:

"Are you suggesting that one cannot have assurance of salvation?"

Thank you.

I won't presume to speak for Bob but will mention a couple of thoughts for you to consider friend.

Assurance of salvation can only come inside each person's heart. "The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God"

Assurance can never truly come from others convincing or reiterating another's belief. In addition, no one can pin down a date or time when they were regenerated. They only know after it happened because their eyes are now opened and they now hunger for the Milk of God's Truth. Sure folks can remember when they recited a prayer or the words indicating belief and can remember when they professed Christ before men but not when they truly believed in the heart. It is at that split second that the Spirit gave them new birth.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I am sensing that you maybe misunderstanding the point Bob and others are making in this thread. They are not implying repentance is a "work" but rather a state of one's heart (an attitude of sorrow seeking mercy). This attitude of repentance is brought on by the Gospel Scriptures.

I wonder if this may be simply another argument on semantics.

 

Edited by wretched

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It seems to me that BabeinChrist is confusing/confounding repentance unto salvation and daily repentance of sins.

 

Acts 20:21 - One makes repentance towards God and puts their faith in Jesus Christ.  Turning to Christ from sin.  Two sides of the same coin.  

 

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On July 22, 2017 at 11:33 AM, wretched said:

I won't presume to speak for Bob but will mention a couple of thoughts for you to consider friend.

Assurance of salvation can only come inside each person's heart. "The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God"

Assurance can never truly come from others convincing or reiterating another's belief. In addition, no one can pin down a date or time when they were regenerated. They only know after it happened because their eyes are now opened and they now hunger for the Milk of God's Truth. Sure folks can remember when they recited a prayer or the words indicating belief and can remember when they professed Christ before men but not when they truly believed in the heart. It is at that split second that the Spirit gave them new birth.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I am sensing that you maybe misunderstanding the point Bob and others are making in this thread. They are not implying repentance is a "work" but rather a state of one's heart (an attitude of sorrow seeking mercy). This attitude of repentance is brought on by the Gospel Scriptures.

I wonder if this may be simply another argument on semantics.

 

Why do you think nobody knows when they we saved? I remember the EXACT moment I got saved, in 2004. 

I remember hearing the Gospel but never understanding it until I came to the lowest, most humbling point in my life when I sought God with all of my heart, soul & mind sincerely. It was THEN that the Holy Spirit enlightened me to the understanding of His Gospel, that I am a sinner who deserves Hell, but that God's love & mercy prompted Him to sent His Son into this wicked, fallen world to do for us what we ourselves CANNOT do....which is pay our debt of sin & go to Heaven. And while Christ did this for all, it finally became clear that "all" included little ole me.  The verse I heard all my life, John 3:16, but never grasped the meaning of, was being manifest in my mind, soul & spirit for the first time.

It was like God reached down with the greatest gift one could ever hope to receive, salvation from Hell, (with my name on it) & presented it to me, with Jesus Christ being the proof of purchase..

And I, with all my heart, BELIEVE it.

THAT VERY SAME MOMENT I believed, I  couldn't help but announce it (even though I knew God already could see in my heart & knew) & I was instantly CHANGED.

I was reborn.

I really don't think a person even can be saved & NOT KNOW they are.

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2 hours ago, BabeinChrist said:

Why do you think nobody knows when they we saved? I remember the EXACT moment I got saved, in 2004. 

I remember hearing the Gospel but never understanding it until I came to the lowest, most humbling point in my life when I sought God with all of my heart, soul & mind sincerely. It was THEN that the Holy Spirit enlightened me to the understanding of His Gospel, that I am a sinner who deserves Hell, but that God's love & mercy prompted Him to sent His Son into this wicked, fallen world to do for us what we ourselves CANNOT do....which is pay our debt of sin & go to Heaven. And while Christ did this for all, it finally became clear that "all" included little ole me.  The verse I heard all my life, John 3:16, but never grasped the meaning of, was being manifest in my mind, soul & spirit for the first time.

It was like God reached down with the greatest gift one could ever hope to receive, salvation from Hell, (with my name on it) & presented it to me, with Jesus Christ being the proof of purchase..

And I, with all my heart, BELIEVE it.

THAT VERY SAME MOMENT I believed, I  couldn't help but announce it (even though I knew God already could see in my heart & knew) & I was instantly CHANGED.

I was reborn.

I really don't think a person even can be saved & NOT KNOW they are.

Wow friend, I appreciate your testimony and your response but have to say: Did you carefully read my post that you just quoted? If you did, you "should" see clearly what I was quoting from the Word. Jesus said that we cannot know the exact moment of regeneration, not me. Please take another look. In addition, I did not say your last line at all friend.

The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are in agreement on that last line.  If one doesn't know they are saved, they are not. 

I was referencing the exact moment of regeneration. (check John 3: 6-8 I quoted)

 

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Hey Wretched - no comment on ANY OTHER ASPECT of the discussion, but the term "whence" has to do with position and place, not time.

And "whither" also has to do with location, not time.

It is not talking about the precise "Timing" of salvation at all.

 

But there has been a lot of discussion over the centuries as to the precise timing of salvation itself, and there has not been a really satisfactory answer to it.

I tend to look at:

Romans 10:9-10
(9)  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10)  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 

The thing I like about this is that it states it both ways - confession first, then belief, BUT THEN it states belief first then confession.

What we can know for certain, is that one must have both confession and belief, and once these both are present, it is certain.

 

I do think it is a problem when people put their trust in the "moment " of their salvation - our trust should be in the promise of God, not in any event that we might look to.

I am thinking of the person who says "I know I am saved because I prayed a prayer on this date at that time". Personally I know I am saved because God has promised that if i confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in my heart that God hath raised him from the dead, I shall be saved.

And I have, I do, and I am. 

Exactly when doesn't matter -  because has promised it, and I have followed His words in this matter.

 

But all of this is way off topic now I guess......:laugh:

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50 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Hey Wretched - no comment on ANY OTHER ASPECT of the discussion, but the term "whence" has to do with position and place, not time.

And "whither" also has to do with location, not time.

It is not talking about the precise "Timing" of salvation at all.

 

But there has been a lot of discussion over the centuries as to the precise timing of salvation itself, and there has not been a really satisfactory answer to it.

I tend to look at:

Romans 10:9-10
(9)  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10)  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 

The thing I like about this is that it states it both ways - confession first, then belief, BUT THEN it states belief first then confession.

What we can know for certain, is that one must have both confession and belief, and once these both are present, it is certain.

 

I do think it is a problem when people put their trust in the "moment " of their salvation - our trust should be in the promise of God, not in any event that we might look to.

I am thinking of the person who says "I know I am saved because I prayed a prayer on this date at that time". Personally I know I am saved because God has promised that if i confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in my heart that God hath raised him from the dead, I shall be saved.

And I have, I do, and I am. 

Exactly when doesn't matter -  because has promised it, and I have followed His words in this matter.

 

But all of this is way off topic now I guess......:laugh:

No I get it Dave, confession with the mouth is calculable but i don't agree with the location reference. Not knowing where something came from or where it went after it happened is a more modern paraphrase and deals with time as well as location (like bat out of hell or speeding bullet or "came outta nowhere").  The passage cannot be referencing simply locations because that would make zero sense in the context. The Lord was revealing that belief in the heart is not calculable in John 3: 6-8 (only evidence of true belief is calculable). This ties in with other teaching of the Lord:

1Cor.3:7  So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

There goes the whole 123 repeat after me nonsense we see EVERYWHERE in these last days. The Lord is revealing that no one can see or claim or count the increase (not even the person believing at the time). The increase is only and always the Lords.

This is why so many times we see people who say they believe, go forward, even in some cases get baptized but then in a blink of an eye, they are gone. We sold them some religion in Jesus's name and nothing more or a better way to say it is, we picked green fruit and tried to proclaim it "saved".

I believe this is why so much emphasis, roughly 90% of the Gospels and Epistles discuss how a believer is to live demonstrating the transformation (fruit of the Spirit) that occurs. It is this renewing of the mind that makes us know we truly believed.

Anyway, that's my take.

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Ok, while this is an interesting discussion, it is not what the OP is about. Let's get back to discussion of Roloff (who, BTW, would come down squarely and correctly on the side of repentance is necessary for salvation and is most definitely NOT a work). 

I don't know where the icon for it went, but back to topic...

Anyway...

Roloff was well known in his heyday as a man who stood on biblical principle against unjust government intrusion. He was a no-holds-barred, no-apology Baptist preacher. He had a love for people that was pretty amazing. He reached a lot of young people through his ministries. But he had weird eating ideas. LOL (He was a health nut of sorts)

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