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Wayfaring Stranger

Questions About Lord's Supper and Confession

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I posted these questions in another Baptist forum but didn't get any much response so I'm looking forward to your answers:
 

As I stated in my introduction thread I have some questions regarding theology. They basically revolve around doctrines of transubstantiation and priestly confession. 

1. Transubstantiation: 
What is the Baptist view of Luke 22 19-21 and John 6:
"50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever."

After 10 years in Catholicism that seems rather clear and seems to strongly support transubstantiation. What is the Baptist refutation and answer for this?

2. Priestly confession:
John 20:
"21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."
It seems to rather strongly suggest the ability of priests to forgive and retain sins. What is the Baptist interpretation?
 

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Hey friend, since these horses has been beaten to death and raised repeatedly on here, click the activity tab, then just type in the words transubstantiation into the search feature, study the threads and then do the same with the word eucharist  and you will be taught the correct doctrine on it. Then do the same with the word remitted. I suspect every question or argument you can imagine have already been answered by Scripture.

The Lord also said He was the true vine, the door, the good shepherd, the chief cornerstone, etc...but the RCC couldn't find a pagan symbol or ritual to falsely apply to it. Our Lord spoke often allegorically and only the Holy Spirit can guide you into these true meanings. Without the new birth, you can never understand.

If you are sincere and want to know God's truth you will study all that comes up, will see your need for salvation and won't need more explanations in regards to these roman pagan heresies. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Regarding transubstantiation:

When we read the passages regarding the Lord's Supper, there are a few things that are evident.

Christ was physically there administering the bread and cup. If there was ever a chance for literal substantiation, I would think this would have been it. Yet, he was giving them actual bread; he wasn't ripping pieces of his flesh off and giving it to them to eat. He wasn't giving them his actual blood to drink either; he made it very clear that it was "the fruit of the vine". So, Christ was using the bread and the cup to represent his body and blood.

Secondly, and most importantly, Christ told them to do this "in remembrance of me". It was instituted for us to "remember" what Christ did for us; in that, his body was broken for us, and his blood was poured out for us. We are to remember that...not reconstitute or re-sacrifice his body and blood from bread and a cup. He was sacrificed once for all, and in taking the Lord's Supper, it sets our minds and hearts back on what he did for us in the past. It's a time of remembrance...not re-sacrifice.

Regarding it even further...this is going to sound too simple, because we often want deep, hard, theological answers...when the simple truth lies right before our eyes.

In the verses that you pointed out, Christ said that one would have to eat his flesh and drink his blood. He was very specific. He said nothing about transubstantiation or the possibility thereof...he said his flesh and his blood. He gave no wiggle room for anything else. You either eat his actual flesh and drink his actual blood, or you have no eternal life. The wording doesn't allow for transubstantiation.

The Jews were actually pretty smart in their response; which was, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? They understood the dilemma posed; they just didn't understand what was actually being said.

So, how does one eat the Lord's flesh and drink his blood if transubstantiation isn't possible?

The Lord likened his flesh to the manna which the Jews ate in the wilderness. What did the Jews have to do to get the manna (bread)? Nothing. It was a free gift from God. They just had to accept it. 

How does one eat Christ's flesh and drink his blood? Christ said that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, you have no life in you...no eternal life. However, we can't eat his actual flesh or drink his actual blood...

Christ also said that "he that believeth in me shall never die", whosoever believeth in me should not perish but have everlasting life". So...which is it? Must we eat his flesh and drink his blood in order to have eternal life, or must we believe in Christ to have eternal life?

Just as the Jews accepted the free gift of manna, believers accept the free gift of Christ's flesh and blood which was broken and spilled for us for the forgiveness of sins. We eat his flesh and drink his blood by believing and accepting what he did for us when he sacrificed himself for us. 

There's nothing mystical about true Christianity, and I mean no disrespect to you personally, but transubstantiation is about as mystical as it gets in my opinion. 

All of that to say this in answer to your question...

My view is that there is no such thing as transubstantiation; there is no true biblical basis for it. There is nothing in the Bible which describes it. There is nothing in the Bible which validates it. It's a man-made doctrine. The Bible says in more than one place that the Lord's Supper is to be done in remembrance of what Christ did for us. It's a solemn time of remembrance. The bread represents his flesh; it doesn't become his flesh. The fruit of the vine represents his blood; it doesn't become his blood.

 

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Thank you for the response. For most of the past 11 years I've this yearning for...mysticism I guess you could say. Esotericism. I think the Lord is revealing to me that not all things mystical or "spiritual" are good or Godly. The rather "plain" nature of Baptist theology and worship lost it's flavor with me and I went searching only to find myself parched in a land of shallow wells. I guess I have much spiritual growth to do, which is ironic because I considered myself spiritually advanced, but I was just a dog chasing my own tail.

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10 minutes ago, Wayfaring Stranger said:

Thank you for the response. For most of the past 11 years I've this yearning for...mysticism I guess you could say. Esotericism. I think the Lord is revealing to me that not all things mystical or "spiritual" are good or Godly. The rather "plain" nature of Baptist theology and worship lost it's flavor with me and I went searching only to find myself parched in a land of shallow wells. I guess I have much spiritual growth to do, which is ironic because I considered myself spiritually advanced, but I was just a dog chasing my own tail.

Friend, just acknowledging what you have says a lot. I can tell you this...plain theology may seem boring on the outset, but that's because our flesh wants to "experience" something. When we are saved, we have a very real warfare that goes on between our flesh and our spirit. The flesh wants experiences, tangible evidences, signs, and wonders...or...our flesh wants to reason things intellectually.

That's one major reason that much of this mysticism, signs, and wonders are so popular...they appeal to the flesh. Did you know that despite all of the signs and wonders that God performed for Israel when they were released from bondage in Egypt, it wasn't enough? The most important thing to God is for us to believe him...to have faith in him. Despite all of the miracles, signs, and wonders...they still didn't believe him or have faith...

Numbers 14:11
And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

On the other hand, our spirit feeds from the truth revealed to us in God's word. Our flesh doesn't want to study his word; our spirit does.

When we understand that the greatest tool, gift, and tangible evidence that we have is God's word, that's when things will begin to click (for lack of a better word). The more we read his word, the more it becomes real. The more we study his word, the more it shines a light on the truths revealed therein...that we would otherwise scoff at when looking at it through the eyes of our flesh.

What once seemed boring becomes exciting. What once may have seemed a waste of time, becomes of utmost importance. Plain theology...it may seem shallow at first, but the more that you study it, it only gets deeper and deeper.

Mysticism is just another way of seeking signs. Though thinly veiled as a "spiritual" experience, it's still an experience that appeals to the flesh. Before long, the focus is on the experience itself.

You will have no greater true joy than to first be saved. Then read and study his word...putting into real tangible practice what is revealed in his word. The greatest gift that mankind has ever received is the sacrifice of Christ for our sins. In my opinion, the second greatest gift is that we have his word...and you can't have one without the other.

Read it, study it, and you will begin to grow as the Holy Spirit reveals more truth to you. It may look plain from the outside, but on the inside, it's will fill you to overflowing.

Give me plain theology! The more I learn of it, the deeper it grows, and I realize that it's so deep that I'll never grasp it all.

May the Lord work in your life and bless as you seek the truth.

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On 6/29/2017 at 10:48 AM, Wayfaring Stranger said:

Thank you for the response. For most of the past 11 years I've this yearning for...mysticism I guess you could say. Esotericism. I think the Lord is revealing to me that not all things mystical or "spiritual" are good or Godly. The rather "plain" nature of Baptist theology and worship lost it's flavor with me and I went searching only to find myself parched in a land of shallow wells. I guess I have much spiritual growth to do, which is ironic because I considered myself spiritually advanced, but I was just a dog chasing my own tail.

I wasted three years after salvation attending Catholic and rock-n-roll churches.  I didn't truly begin to grow in grace until joining a biblical church.  

Now as for the Lord's Supper and the Catholics:

"After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.  For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come." - 1 Corinthians 11:25-26

See how far they've twisted the plain teaching of the scriptures?

As for priests:

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;” - 1 Timothy 2:5

"And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." - Matthew 23:9

The real priests are the believers, see 1 Peter 2:5 and 9

 

Finally, please prayerfully read Hebrews Chapter 10.  This chapter itself proves both of those Catholic doctrines of devils false.

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