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20 hours ago, Baptistsenior said:

If you could not find an IFB church in your area, what kind of Baptist churches would you never attend?   

I guess to answer your question a bit better than just saying "Move", which I know is not always possible........

You really need to just try them one by one - when you visit, let them know that you are looking, and will not make a decision until you have checked them all.

Personally, I would stay away from any that refer to themselves as "particular" or "Reformed", as they will almost certainly be Calvinistic.

Where I am, any church that prefixes its name with "Free" is also highly likely to be Calvinistic, but I understand it is not always used that way in the US.

The point is really that there are some associated with the not so good groups of baptists which are on the better end of the scale, and some who might name themselves right, but are on the wrong end of that scale. You can't tell until you sit in a service.

One of the good things about the tech today is that many churches have websites - If you know the name of the nearby churches, then you put that into your search and check them out - the websites are not always accurate, or not always well done, but it gives you an idea. Particularly if you look at their "Statement of faith".

 

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15 hours ago, weary warrior said:

Frankly, there are IFB churches I would never attend either. 

We have several  IFB church here that are Calvanistic   

How do you feel about Southern Baptist and MIssionary Baptist

18 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

Freewill Baptists, Primitive Baptists, some of the Southern Baptists

What about General Baptists and Missionary Baptists? 

15 hours ago, DaveW said:

I would move to another area.......

Wish that were possible 

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I

6 minutes ago, Baptistsenior said:

We have several  IFB church here that are Calvanistic   

How do you feel about Southern Baptist and MIssionary Baptist

What about General Baptists and Missionary Baptists? 

Wish that were possible 

 I have attended one Missionary Baptist church in the area which is King James only and they seem sound, but they are about 40 minutes away. I don't know of any "General Baptists" around here so I don't know anything about them.

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I used to attend a Missionary Baptist Church. Like any independent church, a Missionary Baptist church will more than likely do things their own way...one Missionary Baptist Church may be doctrinally off in some areas, but another one may be doctrinally sound. It depends on the leadership.

The one I attended was basically deacon led, but above that, there was one particular family who had way too much control.

Oliver B. Greene was a Missionary Baptist.

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General Baptists came into being when the division was made of Baptists into "general Baptists" and "Particular Baptist" which was a division along calvinsitic lines.

The Particular followed Calvin's teaching of a "Particular call to salvation", whilst the General Baptist refused Calvin's teaching and believed in a "General Call to salvation".

 

It is important to note that it was ONLY WHEN Calvin's teaching began to infiltrate Baptist Circles that this division was made - there was no distinction prior to this because the teachings of Calvin were not known among Baptists prior to this.

One member here likes to claim that all Baptists were Calvinistic prior to this time, but that is simply not historically true.

The division came about in the first half of the 1600's (about 1630-ish). Prior to this Baptist didn't talk about "election" in the Calvinist sense.

So it would follow that a church that calls itself a "particular baptist church" should be Calvinistic, since that is the origin of the name.

That doesn't mean a "general baptist church" will necessarily be any good, it simply means that they shouldn't hold to Calvinism.

 

 

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2 hours ago, DaveW said:

t is important to note that it was ONLY WHEN Calvin's teaching began to infiltrate Baptist Circles that this division was made - there was no distinction prior to this because the teachings of Calvin were not known among Baptists prior to this.

Not exactly true.  In the county in England where my ancestors were from, Norfolk,  The first Baptists were Particular Baptist from the 1640s  The general Baptist came from outside the county, later.,  See C B Jewson's histories of Baptists in Norfolk and Norwich. Two of my great grandfather's sisters emigrated to Oz.  One beca\me a missionary to India

 

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I would check out each church for what they teach and how they live, not what name they go by. If I couldn't find a sound Baptist Church in the area, I would actually look for a Nazareen Church and try them. Is everything perfect and straight with them? No, but the ones I know are actually straighter and better than maybe 75% of any Baptist church I've been to. For you die-hard Baptists on here, I'm sorry, but it's true. Or I would just lead my family at home until God opens a door and directs different.

Myself? I would fellowship with a non-Baptist Christian that is a little fuzzy on eternal security any day over a Calvinistic Baptist. You can teach eternal security, but the Calvinist will burn you at the stake. Metaphorically speaking, of course.

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6 hours ago, Invicta said:

Not exactly true.  In the county in England where my ancestors were from, Norfolk,  The first Baptists were Particular Baptist from the 1640s  The general Baptist came from outside the county, later.,  See C B Jewson's histories of Baptists in Norfolk and Norwich. Two of my great grandfather's sisters emigrated to Oz.  One beca\me a missionary to India

 

Like I said...........

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You've also got missionary baptist churches that are pentecostal with mainly African American people.  I go to independent missionary baptist but they believe all gifts have ceased aside from faith hope and love. 

 

So yeah best to see what a church actually believes rather than its designated label

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14 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

I guess I must be a "die hard Baptist."

Jim, I hope you didn't take that as a poke at you, my friend. I certainly didn't mean it as such. I was just communicating that I'm die-hard truth, morality and service, and when the Baptist church  doesn't fit in those parameters, I'll go with what does, whatever they call themselves. And let's face it, there is a falling away going on in the Baptist church, even among the IFB. If not falling away in doctrine, then often in morality and standards, or in service. We are made up of people too, and are not quarantined from the prophesy regarding the church that Paul warned Timothy about. In the end, we will have to hold to scripture alone, it is all that will stand sure and unshaken.

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No WW, I dd not think of it as a poke at me at all. No offence taken Brother.

When I left Alaska I was forced by circumstances to settle where I am now. There was no Independent Baptist church here, or anywhere within driving distance. I have always been a "church" man and refuse to attend churches outside of Independent Baptist ranks, I also will not settle for Independent Baptists that are in error.

In Alaska I literally lived two doors from my church, so attendance was a breeze and appreciated. Here I chose to hold services in my home for my wife and I, with a few friends attending also. For nine years we did it this way until an Independent Baptist Pastor was called to a small church in the largest town in our area, which only has a population of 7500.

When I saw the church sign while in town one day I knocked on the door and spoke with this young pastor. Based on that conversation in which he assured me that they were indeed Independent, I started attending and quickly became a member. I have to drive an hour and a half one way to attend services, but consider it a small price to pay for being able to attend and worship with God's people in a scriptural, truly Independent Baptist Church.

I said all this because for me there is just no way I would attend a church outside of Independent Baptist ranks, especially if it is a "so-called" church in name only. My convictions on this issue are so strong for me that I would rather hold our own services than to give any sign of credibility to a so-called "church" that I know is something other than the church that Jesus built.

I do realize that this stand is not one that everyone can take, or should take, but for me it has proved valid and God has blessed. I am able to be used to preach and teach here as God has called me to do. I cannot even imagine being part of a church where I could not be used because of my Baptistic convictions, or having to withhold  the truth of God's word because of differing doctrines.

So, no offence taken Brother, it is just me being my hard nosed and unbending self and seeking God's will for my life as He reveals it to me.

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Around here, many of the Pentecostal churches hold to the King James Bible and will use no other. Even men like Bennie Hinn use it. But they have the wrong spirit, therefore they mishandle the truth. There must be spirit and truth or there is neither..

 

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Brother, I think we are in agreement. I travel all over the country and some parts of the world holding meetings and it seems to be the condition of the country! some churches have truth and lack in spirit, while others seem to have spirit but lack in truth. I am simply saying that if a church has truth , they have something to work with . Maybe the missing ingredient are the folks who have the discernment that you and I have about it . perhaps we are the missing link.I am sure the answer would not be to stay at home until the truth filled church gets a revival. perhaps if I went to be a spiritual help rather than get some help maybe I could make a difference. I am not suggesting in any way that you are the problem But maybe my attitude is in need of repair. Thanks for the wake up call. be blessed.

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Wow, lots of good info.     I was a bit misleading on my first post.  It isn't that I can't find good ifb churches.  I'll explain what I meant by the statement.   I have spent the last fourty plus years in KJV only IFB churches.  The first one closed down after 36 years, now this one is closing down.  A serious of church splits have sent the members of both churches to the only other IFB church (that isn't Calvanist) in the area that have soul winning programs etc.  I prefer not to go where everyone else fled to because of hurt feelings etc.  We do have a small IFB KJV only church which doesn't appear to be growing, a Southern Baptist church that has no web page for me to check out, and a Misssionary Baptist Church of which I have known the Pastors wife since she was a child.  I know that I should stay away from churches affiliated heavily with the SBC, I just don't know what a Missionary Baptist really is.  Their doctrinal statement appears to be very good though.  I'm not checking any out yet until my church closes, but I am laying the groundwork.  I so hate when Satan gets into a church and causes so much distruction.

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On 5/27/2017 at 1:00 AM, Invicta said:

Not exactly true.  In the county in England where my ancestors were from, Norfolk,  The first Baptists were Particular Baptist from the 1640s  The general Baptist came from outside the county, later.,  See C B Jewson's histories of Baptists in Norfolk and Norwich. Two of my great grandfather's sisters emigrated to Oz.  One beca\me a missionary to India

 

Actually, what I wrote IS EXACTLY TRUE.

You made a partial quote for the purposes of presenting my information in such a way that you could oppose me, but the fact is that I set the time as "the first half of the 1600's (about 1630-ish)", and I am talking about the actual division into particular and general baptists, not some local arrival of a particular group, which is what you have presented.

Prior to this time there was no division along those lines, and as such there was no such thing as a "Particular baptist", or a "General Baptist".

For you to state "Not exactly true" means that you are calling me a liar, but you then present absolutely no evidence contrary to my information, in spite of your deliberate attempt to misrepresent me. It seems as though your only reason for posting in this thread was to oppose my points without presenting any opposing information.

 

Baptist Senior, I apologise for having a rant in your thread, but this is the guy I was alluding to in the post which he misquoted.

He consistently rewrites history to suit his own theology, and I would advise you to ignore pretty much anything he says about history, and absolutely anything he says about prophecy.

Search his posts and you will see what I mean.

And watch out for his childish response which will say something like:

On 4/27/2017 at 8:06 AM, Invicta said:

And I would counsel you to ignore anything DaveW says about prophecy  His teachings are not Baptist but Plymouth Brethren. I have been there, I know.

And that, by the way is also a lie, and he knows it.

(I will post nothing further about Invicta in this thread. I will only respond to the original point of the thread.)

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On your first point you have not atually proved me wrong, only passed an opinion.  If you can prove me wrong from evidence I will apologise. I have never called you a liar, and I have noo intention ever to, although I believe you are wrong on a number of issues.  

On the second point I was correct.  The Brethren spread the teaching arpond the world..

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