The Baptist Doctrine Of Salvation

[John Yurich]

There are some Evangelical Protestants who state that the Baptist doctrine of salvation of having an Altar Call to give individuals the opportunity to give their life to Christ is a works based plan of salvation. Yesterday I was Baptized via immersion(in the indoor pool of a nearby hotel) after worship at that Baptist Church I attend on Sunday mornings. I was asked 2 questions by the pastor. 1)Did I accept Jesus as my Savior and Lord? 2)Did I wish to be Baptized via immersion as a public profession of faith that I gave my life to Christ? That does not sound like a works based plan of salvation to me. Why would any Evangelical Protestant state that the Baptist doctrine of salvation is a works based plan of salvation?

[No Nicolaitans]

While the anti-altar call view is becoming more prominent, the main people whom I've seen oppose it are Calvinists.

Are the Protestant people (you're referring to) Presbyterians by chance? 

Also, I'm unaware of the altar call as being included in any Baptist Doctrine of Salvation.

I'm not opposed to altar calls, but neither do I believe that they are required.

Congratulations on being baptized.

 

[Invicta]

The "altar call" seems to have been made popular by American Evangelicals in the 19th century.

There is no altar in a true church, altars were introduced by the Catholics. Altars are for offering sacrifices.  Christ offered himself "once for all" so no altars in the church.

[weary warrior]

13 hours ago, Invicta said:

The "altar call" seems to have been made popular by American Evangelicals in the 19th century.

There is no altar in a true church, altars were introduced by the Catholics. Altars are for offering sacrifices.  Christ offered himself "once for all" so no altars in the church.

If your brush got much broader, you couldn't pick it up. Romans 12:1-2 tells us to offer ourselves as a "living sacrifice". Sacrifices are offered on alters. The "alters" in a church are a metaphor for the place where a person can come to publicly offer themselves to Christ, either in salvation or in surrender to service. I myself don't often give alter calls. it's not required. It's prominence in this country was solidified by DL Moody after the great Chicago fire. To say that there is no alter in a true church is to say that if a church has an alter, i.e. a place to come pray and surrender to God, it is not a true church. Where does a believer's head have to be to even say something like that?!? 

Edited May 24, 2017 by weary warrior

[Ukulelemike]

My old preacher used to say, "You'll never surrender to a call you answer, unless you do it publicly at the altar, thereby making yourself responsible to God AND His people" Too easy to sit in your favorite pew and make a half-hearted 'promise' to do something, and then conveniently forget it or excuse it.

When I went forward to an altar, a place of prayer and dedication, where I once and for all offered myself a living sacrifice and dedicated myself to service, I did it before hundreds of other preachers, young and old, and then, my pastor hadme go forward in our own church before all God's people there and publicly proclaim that I had done so. After that, I found it quite difficult to 'reneg' on that. It seemed like everyone knew, or found out. My next pastor, when I moved, kept me moving in that direction: I went, for a year, to another church when I worked at a prison in Nevada, and the pastor there almost forced me to get up and preach (for my first time) one Sunday, then take over the adult Sunday School class. It seemed like it followed me everywhere, which of course, it did, because He was already there.

I don't know that I would have taken it so seriously, had I not gone 'to the altar' publicly. 

[John Yurich]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 3:22 PM, No Nicolaitans said:

While the anti-altar call view is becoming more prominent, the main people whom I've seen oppose it are Calvinists.

Are the Protestant people (you're referring to) Presbyterians by chance? 

Also, I'm unaware of the altar call as being included in any Baptist Doctrine of Salvation.

I'm not opposed to altar calls, but neither do I believe that they are required.

Congratulations on being baptized.

 

They might be Presbyterians. I know that they are Calvinists.

16 hours ago, Invicta said:

The "altar call" seems to have been made popular by American Evangelicals in the 19th century.

There is no altar in a true church, altars were introduced by the Catholics. Altars are for offering sacrifices.  Christ offered himself "once for all" so no altars in the church.

It is totally superfluous if the Altar Call was made popular by American Evangelicals in the 19th Century. The Altar is still scriptural. And Altars are not for offering  sacrifices. They are for conducting Holy Communion upon. The fact that the Lutheran Church does not state that their Divine Service is not a sacrifice and the fact that some Baptist Churches have Altars proves you are wrong about Altars are for offering sacrifices.

[Invicta]

1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said:

My old preacher used to say, "You'll never surrender to a call you answer, unless you do it publicly at the altar, thereby making yourself responsible to God AND His people" Too easy to sit in your favorite pew and make a half-hearted 'promise' to do something, and then conveniently forget it or excuse it.

When I went forward to an altar, a place of prayer and dedication, where I once and for all offered myself a living sacrifice and dedicated myself to service, I did it before hundreds of other preachers, young and old, and then, my pastor hadme go forward in our own church before all God's people there and publicly proclaim that I had done so. After that, I found it quite difficult to 'reneg' on that. It seemed like everyone knew, or found out. My next pastor, when I moved, kept me moving in that direction: I went, for a year, to another church when I worked at a prison in Nevada, and the pastor there almost forced me to get up and preach (for my first time) one Sunday, then take over the adult Sunday School class. It seemed like it followed me everywhere, which of course, it did, because He was already there.

I don't know that I would have taken it so seriously, had I not gone 'to the altar' publicly. 

No baptist church that I am familiar with has an altar or altar call.  Some may have an appeal, but they are more likely to be charismatic.  Altars in the church were introduced by the RCC., usually in the east so worhippers at the early morning mass would face the rising sun  At the reformation, the C.of E. at least did away with altars and had a simple table for communion..  Archbishop Laud at the time of King Charles 1st, reintroduced them to the church.  

Edited May 24, 2017 by Invicta

[John Yurich]

22 minutes ago, Invicta said:

No baptist church that I am familiar with has an altar or altar call.  Some may have an appeal, but they are more likely to be charismatic.  Altars in the church were introduced by the RCC., usually in the east so worhippers at the early morning mass would face the rising sun  At the reformation, the C.of E. at least did away with altars and had a simple table for communion..  Archbishop Laud at the time of King Charles 1st, reintroduced them to the church.  

Every Baptist Church and Assemblies of God Church I am aware of have an Altar Call to give individuals the opportunity to give their life to Christ. And I know some Baptist Churches that have an Altar to conduct Holy Communion upon.

[Ukulelemike]

Every IFB church I have been a part of, had an altar call. We don't always, but sometimes. That we call it an altar doesn't mean we worship it, or on it.

 

[Salyan]

Yah, I've heard the 'altar call' used as a turn of phrase, but I don't know any church that actually considers there to be an actual altar in the church. Sometimes you'll see the little tables at the front - these are often used to place the communion dishes on (looks nicer than resting them on the stage - and more sanitary!) - but they aren't altars. Just tables. We had one built a few years ago, but before that, the communion dishes were just placed on the stage when not in current use.

What UkeleleMike says about the altar call referring to a place of dedication is spot on. Preachers give the congregation a chance to respond to the Holy Spirit's working in their lives - whether for salvation, or dedication, or to deal with whatever needs dealing with. This response can be done anywhere - in your seat, at the front, at home in bed! - but sometimes it is useful or needful for us to physically go forward and bend a knee. It can make the discussion with God more serious to us, somehow. But it's not a required thing for one to go forward for salvation or anything else. Perhaps the phrase 'altar call' is a poor one to use, since it can cause such confusion.

John, some terms are shared by Baptists and the RCC, but mean different things to the different churches. I think the term altar is one of them. And that is GREAT NEWS to hear of your baptism!!

[John Yurich]

6 minutes ago, Salyan said:

Yah, I've heard the 'altar call' used as a turn of phrase, but I don't know any church that actually considers there to be an actual altar in the church. Sometimes you'll see the little tables at the front - these are often used to place the communion dishes on (looks nicer than resting them on the stage - and more sanitary!) - but they aren't altars. Just tables. We had one built a few years ago, but before that, the communion dishes were just placed on the stage when not in current use.

What UkeleleMike says about the altar call referring to a place of dedication is spot on. Preachers give the congregation a chance to respond to the Holy Spirit's working in their lives - whether for salvation, or dedication, or to deal with whatever needs dealing with. This response can be done anywhere - in your seat, at the front, at home in bed! - but sometimes it is useful or needful for us to physically go forward and bend a knee. It can make the discussion with God more serious to us, somehow. But it's not a required thing for one to go forward for salvation or anything else. Perhaps the phrase 'altar call' is a poor one to use, since it can cause such confusion.

John, some terms are shared by Baptists and the RCC, but mean different things to the different churches. I think the term altar is one of them. And that is GREAT NEWS to hear of your baptism!!

I have seen Baptist Churches that have an Altar to celebrate Holy Communion on.

[Salyan]

Some have a table, yes, and they might even use the term 'altar', but it is NOT an altar of sacrifice like the Bible refers to. Their use of the term 'altar' is basically a misnomer.

I'm sensing that you are connecting the term to its correct connotation (which is an altar of sacrifice), and may be giving more importance to the table than it really deserves, and that's why I'm trying to clarify things. It is not necessary to celebrate the Lord's Supper on any piece of furniture in particular.

[1Timothy115]

At the end of the preacher's message an opportunity is given to come forward to (1) publicly proclaim what has already happened to a new believer (2) ask for help in understanding salvation (3) to have someone pray with you about a matter close to your heart (4) to ask questions about baptism. There are a myriad of reasons a preacher offers an opportunity for individuals to come and approach the pulpit area or vicinity. We IFB, IB, and Baptists like to refer to it as an 'alter' where we lay our hearts open before Jesus Christ. Christ said if we confess Him before men He will confess us before the Father, Luke 12:8 . In the NT you won't find alter and you won't find pulpit for that matter. These are terms for identifying a location only. It isn't required to be anywhere or anyplace but where we worship God in spirit and in truth. An 'alter ?' if you want but it is a humble and contrite heart before God our Savior.

As far as a 'communion alter' I've never heard that once in an IFB, IB, or Baptist assembly. There is a table with the words "This Do In Remembrance Of Me" carved in it. We don't take turns going forward but instead little cup-lets are passed out and trays with the individual pieces of bread are passed through the pews. We all wait for one another, and in unison take the bread and then the cup.

[DaveW]

I have never seen an actual real physical altar in an IB church. 

Normally people come forward to the edge of the platform if there is one, but in some the setting is stadium style where the seats are terraced and the preaching done at ground level, so when the "altar call" is given, the people come down to nothing and kneel on the floor at the front of the call.

This is representative of the person presenting themselves IN THEIR HEART as a sacrifice to the Lord.

No physical altar........

Edited May 26, 2017 by DaveW
Phone spelling

[John Yurich]

20 hours ago, Salyan said:

Some have a table, yes, and they might even use the term 'altar', but it is NOT an altar of sacrifice like the Bible refers to. Their use of the term 'altar' is basically a misnomer.

I'm sensing that you are connecting the term to its correct connotation (which is an altar of sacrifice), and may be giving more importance to the table than it really deserves, and that's why I'm trying to clarify things. It is not necessary to celebrate the Lord's Supper on any piece of furniture in particular.

I know what an altar looks like and it was an altar that I have seen in some Baptist Churches for celebrating Holy Communion on. It was not a table. So don't call me a liar. And if the Lutheran Church does not believe that the Divine Service of the Lutheran Church is a sacrifice then the altar in the Lutheran Church is not for sacrifice. So that takes care of that nonsense that an altar is for sacrifice.