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How to Apply the Seven Habits?

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On 04/05/2017 at 1:30 PM, Orval said:

Hey Mike,


I bought the audio book “the Seven Habits” I must have listened to those things a good twenty times.  My wife hated them because every time we traveled by car I listened to them over and over.  After all these years I still remember a few illustrations from the book and still use them occasionally.  The best one in my opinion is when Covey talks about climbing the ladder of success to the top and finding the ladder is leaning against the wrong wall.  What a great illustration for false religions and he being a Mormon.    

I have a need for some brain storming. Since you listened to the 7 habits, I appreciate the ideals but am having a hard time figuring out how to apply some, which i feel we need to do to build the team that is our small church. Some here are familiar with a subject I brought up recently and got some flak for. Here's my question: when this 25 yr old comes to church ( first one there usually, way early for I don't know what reason) in either a proper skirt but with cleavage ballooning out, or , alternatively, a proper top but with too tight pants or shorts. Or too tight all over, how do I word it to be edifying? My example I just looked at in the 7 habits of highly effective families: a husband comes home greated by his 3 yr old who announces " hi Dad, I'm a hard-working man!". He finds out he tried to wash dishes with jug water from the fridge, making a huge mess. Mom asks a series of questions finding out his motives instead of yelling at him and making him feel bad. Makes suggestions like " how about next time you ask me to pull the chair over so you can reach the sink? ". Child happy, no guilt or iffense taken.

What could I say that would support a behavioral change in this girl that would avoid making her feel offended? This is the main issue.

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First, I'd probably ask one of the women of the church to speak to her. It wouldn't be quite right to have a man talk to her. It's hard to do. Fortunately, I've never been in that situation. I have NO idea what I'd say! 

So...my advice is to find an older woman of the church to speak to her. 

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On 10/13/2017 at 12:59 PM, Saved41199 said:

So...my advice is to find an older woman of the church to speak to her. 

That is very effective biblical advice. "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their children." Titus 2:3 & 4

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This is a difficult situation, but does need addressed, as tactfully, and as with as much scripture as possible.
I don't think the woman of the church should be the first route (since the pastor should be leading the flock himself, first).
But rather the women (elder women) should be the second route, if the first is not heeded.

Here is what I would suggest:

You may want to save back (as a last option) directly confronting the woman. Rather than first calling her out individually (embarrassingly, and likely to be taken as an insult rather than edifying instruction, no matter how tactfully worded). Why not try these appraoches first?

#1. Group setting first. 
How about a sermon from the pastor on dress as well as conduct of the body of Christ in general? 
Here is some scripture that may help:
1 Tim.2:9-10, 1 Cor.11:1-15, Luke 20:46, Matt.23:5-6, and
even 1 Cor.7:33-35 regarding the unmarried and how they can truly serve the Lord well without distraction.

He could mention also that just as it's not comely for a woman to pray with her head uncovered (bald or shaven head), so also would it be uncomely that a woman would be in the house of the Lord with more than just the head uncovered (give some examples of women wearing provocative clothing, but maybe not exactly what she was wearing that day).
You may note also that the attention a woman will receive from dressing that way would be attention from men who aren't godly men, the type of men who would be attracted to that type of dress would be those whom they (the woman) would not have a good Christian relationship, with Christ first at the forefront of the relationship as He should be, but rather with the lust of the eyes and the pride of life being the forefront and shallow depth of the relationship.
Let them know they are valued to God and as such should be valued by the men they desire to attract. They are not just an object for fleshy lusts, but rather can be serving the Lord better by living pleasing to Him, rather than pleasing to mankind (Gal.1:10)

There are also numerous scripture to be brought forth pertaining to pride, fleshy lusts, the pride of life (such as 1 John 2:15-16 among many others). that may be appropriate to the topic as well.

#2. If the sermon went over her head (or through one ear and out the other) then another group setting may be appropriate.
The women of the church. (As brother Alan has noted Titus 2:3-5), but keep in mind this woman may NOT see this scripture as applying to herself since she is not married, and therefore may receive better the encouragement from Paul in 1 Cor.7:33-35 in regard to the unmarried as better received. Reiterate that if she has chosen to be unmarried, it may be that she could serve the Lord better (without distraction) by remaining unmarried, as long as she intends to be chaste (sadly, very uncommon these days). OR if she is seeking to find a husband, that she will have much better options in the type of men she attracts by her wearing more modest attire, since the men who are attracted to the revealing garments are those who are flesh/lust driven and it would be a shallow relationship which will not please her, nor please the Lord.

Have the women (especially the elder women) ask to meet with ALL the other women of the church for a few moments after the service. This way she will not feel singled out. 
During this meeting, the elder women could also reiterate much of what was said in the sermon, and make specific reference to how the Lord would not have us dress not only in provocative manner, but also not in flashy, attention-getting dress either. (If so be that you have good godly women in the church that don't wear a lot of jewelry and/or loud, attention-getting garments.. as sadly some of them in some churches must never have heard a sermon on that themselves). 

#3. If both of those approaches didn't work... possibly a well written letter to her, first appreciating her attendence at church, and also mentioning any service she has contributed to (if any help has been given by her at church functions). Also note that you do not bring this conversation up to embarrass her or single her out, but that she "may not be aware" (even if you suspect, or are even sure she is in fact aware) of her dress being uncomely in the house of the Lord.
Reiterate scriptural reasons. Close with the fact that you truly only have serving the Lord with the utmost of your concern, and that you would be remiss to see someone not address the issue. 


Here is the scripture noted above.

1 Tim.2:9-10
9 "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

1 Cor.11:1-15
1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering."

Luke 20:46 "Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts"

5 "But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues"

1 John 2:15-16
15 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

Titus 2:3-5 
3 "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."

Gal.1:10 "For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ."


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