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Who Populates the Millennial Kingdom?


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Mike - the churcj of Laodicea is long gone.

The whole seven church ages thing is nowhere indicated in Scripture, but maybe that is for another thread.......

"And after these things...." is still in chapter 7.

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The church will be ruling with Christ and judging the world while the Jews will be on the earth with the Gentiles as their servants. Now, it also appears that some Christians will not reign with Christ at this time. It's not clear what shall be of them. There are some Baptists who believe carnal Christians will be suffering in the Lake of Fire during the millennial kingdom to burn away all the dross. But this is crazy and comes from wresting scripture in order to come up with a new doctrine to sell books and/or scare Christians into making sure they tithe and always do what the pastor says.

I would post some scripture to support this but I'm too lazy to do it know and I have to go out and mow the lawn which I'm dreading to do.

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On 5/9/2017 at 10:30 AM, Ukulelemike said:

Otherwise, twice every mountain and island will be moved away

Let's compare the specific parts of  2 verses in question that are dealing with mountains and islands, and see if they say the same thing???
 

(Rev.6:14) "...every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
(Rev.16:20) "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

That is NOT the same thing at all! In Rev.6 we see that the mountains/islands are MOVED.
Whereas in Rev.16 we see that they are completely GONE ("not found").

Here is a simplistic comparison: if we were to live on a mountain, and the mountain was MOVED during an earthquake, we COULD possibly survive it.
BUT if we were to live on a mountain when the Rev.16 earthquake happens we could NOT survive it. The mountain will be completely removed ("not found") during that event. Far different than just being "moved out of their places".
(Thankfully I won't be here for EITHER event. Maranatha!)

There will be an great earthquake described in Rev.6 (v.12) as well as celestial events described, BUT these are NOT the same events as described in Rev.16!
The earthquake in Rev.16 is the largest one ever... far worse than the Rev.6 earthquake. Rev. 16:18 "...great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."
We don't see the SAME reference given in Rev. 6... God's word does not tell us that the earthquake in Rev.6 is "such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great", no, that wording occurs in Rev.16.
The earthquake in Rev.16 doesn't just MOVE the mountains and island, it completely obliterates them (every island flees AWAY and every mountain is NOT FOUND).
Big difference.

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Reading/studying Rev.6 thru 19 we see an orderly progression of event which WORSEN as they go.  This corresponds with what Jesus said in Matt.24 verses 7-8, when Jesus foretells of "earthquakes in divers places" and He says that these are the BEGINNING of sorrows.

We know that term to mean like a woman in labor. Each contraction gets WORSE, comes closer and closer together. Each contraction becomes progressively more difficult to bear.  

You say it seems clear to you. Well, this seems clear to me. The earthquake described in Rev.6 is part of the 'beginning of sorrows' which Jesus described. The earthquake in Rev.16 is at a later time, and so of course it would be more catastrophic than an earlier one. Birth pains... stronger, harder, closer together, progressively more woe-some.

On 5/9/2017 at 10:30 AM, Ukulelemike said:

How could there be any trees of grass to harm after all that?

When we pay careful attention to the details in Rev.8 we see that a THIRD of the trees and grass are burnt up.

Rev.8:7 "The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up."

We also see that this event happens AFTER the 144,000 male Jewish virgins have been sealed in Rev. chapter 7.

You seem to be implying that there couldn't be any trees or grass TO be burnt up if there were an earthquake as described in Rev.6 which merely MOVED the mountains and islands out of their places. 

On 5/9/2017 at 10:30 AM, Ukulelemike said:

the mountains crumbling, islands moving, literal end of the world stuff

I don't see "end of the world stuff" in Rev.6. I DO see mountains and islands being MOVED. But I don't see them being "found no more" in Rev.6, as I do in Rev.16

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On 5/8/2017 at 10:54 PM, DaveW said:

Quite simply because the Bible tells us it happens this way:

Rev 7:1  And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

After what things?

All the things recorded in chapter 6.

The Bible sets these in a timeline where the first six seals are recorded in chapter 6, and then AFTER THESE THINGS, the events of chapter 7 and following happen.

Your sequence of events simply ignores the plain statement of Scripture.

I make no reference to any other aspect of your argument, but this is exceedingly plain.

You MUST answer this before continuing down your course

I completely agree with brother DaveW. And this wasn't answered. Does one just THROW OUT the words "And after these things"? I hope not.

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On 09/05/2017 at 10:58 PM, Ukulelemike said:

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" (Rev 6:16, 17)   The Bible calls it the day of His wrath, not me. 

edit: By the way, it isn't until the end, when Christ returns, that people will fully understand what is happening and know to declare it the day of the wrath of the Lamb and of God who witteth on the throne.

 

hmmmmm - added the second paragraph while nobody was looking.......

Let's look at that anyway:

Rev 6:16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 
Rev 6:17  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? 

I dunno - it seems like in some way at least the people noted here are attributing these events to God. But it DOES NOT change the timing of the events.

The Bible clearly lists a number of clearly catastrophic events in chapter 6 (no argument there), and it clearly says that the people who witness those events recognise God's hand in those events, but it still gives no reason to suspect that there is a change in sequence.

Which means that ch7:1 is still there: "And after these things...."

 

By the way, men today blame God for catastrophic events. Earthquakes are even officially listed on insurance documents as "Acts of God". And many men who do not recognise God as God, still blame God for all the bad things in life and in the world. Note that they are trying to hide from him that sitteth on the throne - they are not really recognising Him as God or they would know that they cannot hide from Him. Sounds to me a lot like the way men accuse God for bad events today.

And the catastrophes of chapter 6 would certainly count as "Bad events".

It is far easier to read the statements of 6:16 in that light, than to ignore the plain statement of sequence in 7:1.

 

Exactly what passage are you referring to when nyou say "it isn't until the end...." etc Is it a direct comparative for the phrasing of 6:16? 

I don't know because I am not entirely sure what passage you are referring to?

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On 5/9/2017 at 11:07 AM, Ukulelemike said:

But, again, how do the great men a rich men and chief captains know to associate it with the Lamb? They will have been fed a delusion to follow the Beast

In Rev.6:15-17 we see those people HIDING themselves where???
In the dens and rocks of the mountains. Right?
SO... this IS entirely plausible when we see that the earthquake described in Rev.6 MOVES the mountains.
Whereas the earthquake described in Rev.16 entirely obliterates the mountains, so that they are "not found".

QUESTION: How can a person(s) HIDE in the dens and rocks of the mountains if there ARE NO mountains remaining to hide in the dens and rocks of?

Just another reason why the earthquakes described are different. It would NOT be possible for them to be hiding in dens and rocks of the mountains that no longer existed (in Rev.16) Would it?
 

On 5/9/2017 at 10:58 AM, Ukulelemike said:

By the way, it isn't until the end, when Christ returns, that people will fully understand what is happening and know to declare it the day of the wrath of the Lamb and of God who witteth on the throne.

How can you say that??? Throughout Revelation we see that the unsaved world RECOGNIZES it is indeed God's wrath, and yet they still "repent not". Just one (of the many) case in points would be Rev.16:9 "And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory." 
 

So how can you possibly say that no-one will understand it is God's wrath... when the unsaved world is blaspheming HIM for the wrath??? And yet they "repent not". 

Early on in Rev.6:17 we see the PRONOUNCEMENT that it IS God's wrath/the wrath of the Lamb that they are attempting (in vain) to hide from! I can see why you WANT to move this book to the end of the 70th week of Daniel. But I can also see why the Lord placed it FIRST in the series of events. The 7 seals of wrath, God makes sure to let us know TWICE that it is AFTER these events (of Rev.6). First in Rev.7:1 "And after these things". And again at the beginning of Rev.8:1-2 "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets." 
Again... an orderly progression, with specific wording. The 7 seals of wrath FOLLOWED by the 7 trumpets of wrath ("after these things"= Rev.7:1, and then we see the silence in heaven at the 7th seal, and THEN we see the trumpets commence. The wording is there for a reason... it has to be either dealt with and comprehended OR ignored. As much as one would LIKE to change the wording to suit a theory, it cannot be done. Rev.22:18-19 contains a warning about that.

Edited by Ronda
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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 5:40 PM, Invicta said:

Oh, but he has.

The "he" was the Roman Emperor and the "what" is the empire. When the empire was removed, the papacy arose.  

So you claim that the papacy is the "man of sin?? When did the Papacy sit in the "temple, showing himself that he is God"? 

I would venture to guess that you are somehow going to claim that the temple means the church? Except for the fact that the Roman Catholic church is in no way at all the temple of God because they are not a true church made up of regenerated people. please show me in the scripture how an unregenerated group of men following the traditions of men can be considered the temple of God? There are serious problems with your interpretation.

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